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Stats observations

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Five teams this round scored 51 or less.
Collingwood, North, Essendon, Fremantle and West Coast.
The two clubs from WA less than 40....
That is shit for football as fans.
I think the average score for season is only 82.

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Home TeamAway TeamGroundDate

Round 9​

Collingwood1.32.64.77.9(51)lost toWestern Bulldogs6.57.1011.1114.15(99)Marvel StadiumMay 13 (Fri 7:50pm)
Hawthorn4.48.59.814.10(94)lost toRichmond3.39.512.917.15(117)Melbourne Cricket GroundMay 14 (Sat 1:45pm)
North Melbourne1.33.75.96.10(46)lost toPort Adelaide6.58.810.1117.13(115)Blundstone ArenaMay 14 (Sat 2:10pm)
St Kilda2.24.411.813.12(90)dftdGeelong4.36.88.1011.14(80)Marvel StadiumMay 14 (Sat 4:35pm)
Sydney5.59.1212.1614.21(105)dftdEssendon2.34.45.76.11(47)Sydney Cricket GroundMay 14 (Sat 7:25pm)
Adelaide3.37.68.89.12(66)lost toBrisbane Lions5.27.313.616.6(102)Adelaide OvalMay 14 (Sat 7:40pm)
Gold Coast2.15.56.810.9(69)dftdFremantle2.32.42.54.9(33)Metricon StadiumMay 15 (Sun 1:40pm)
GWS Giants3.37.510.611.9(75)lost toCarlton5.37.510.1215.15(105)Sydney Showground StadiumMay 15 (Sun 3:20pm)
West Coast1.01.33.45.8(38)lost toMelbourne6.57.99.1216.16(112)Optus StadiumMay 15 (Sun 5:20pm)
 
Bottom line, these clowns in media that try to carry on silly rules like stand rule and 6,6, 6 opened up scoring and countered congestion issues brilliantly have their head so far up their arse it not funny.

Until it properly addressed this is the norm of football in this century.
When your team down and can barely muster 8 goals in a match it really horrible football for those fans and neutrals that you just turn off and only end up watching your own team, if you can stomach 6 to 8 goals only as losing side.
 

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Too many teams and not enough talent. Creating and kicking goals takes talent/skill. Defending less so.

Adding more teams won't improve things either.
 
For the nine rounds to date the Lions have kicked 145.83 for an effective goal accuracy of 63.6% (ignoring OOB/misses for which I don't have data).

The average goal accuracy across the entire competition is 52.9% (1953.1736) and the standard deviation (using each individual club's accuracy as data points) is 3.8%.

This means that the Lions are 2.8 SDs to the right of (i.e. better than) the mean performance which (assuming goal accuracy had a normal distribution) puts them at the 99.7282% percentile of performance!! Surely they can't maintain that for the rest of the season...

The next best goal accuracy is Richmond at 58.5% so the Lions are roughly as far ahead of the 2nd best as the 2nd best is ahead of the average. The worst accuracy is Port at 47.1% and there are four sides operating at below 50% (i.e. more behinds than goals).
 
Bob Neil said:
For the nine rounds to date the Lions have kicked 145.83 for an effective goal accuracy of 63.6% (ignoring OOB/misses for which I don't have data).

The average goal accuracy across the entire competition is 52.9% (1953.1736) and the standard deviation (using each individual club's accuracy as data points) is 3.8%.

This means that the Lions are 2.8 SDs to the right of (i.e. better than) the mean performance which (assuming goal accuracy had a normal distribution) puts them at the 99.7282% percentile of performance!! Surely they can't maintain that for the rest of the season...

The next best goal accuracy is Richmond at 58.5% so the Lions are roughly as far ahead of the 2nd best as the 2nd best is ahead of the average. The worst accuracy is Port at 47.1% and there are four sides operating at below 50% (i.e. more behinds than goals).
Click to expand...
Very interesting stat.
I wonder if Lions move the ball into attack in a way that most of their shots are more straight in front of goal than attacking from angles towards pockets.
My guess, even without watching is it a part of their game plan forward of centre.
Probably means they use the corridor more than other teams too.
I not watched a lot of their games this season, so will make an effort in coming weeks to watch them more closely to see what I make of it.
 
Of the 12 traditional Victorian clubs, only two Grand Final combinations never came up at Seniors, Reserves or Under 19s level while these competitions were operating. These are Richmond vs. St Kilda, and St Kilda vs. North Melbourne.
 
emuboy said:
Of the 12 traditional Victorian clubs, only two Grand Final combinations never came up at Seniors, Reserves or Under 19s level while these competitions were operating. These are Richmond vs. St Kilda, and St Kilda vs. North Melbourne.
Click to expand...

You can complete the set if you include night/preseason grand finals and lightning premierships. Richmond and St. Kilda played off in the lightning grand finals of 1940 and 1953 whilst St. Kilda and North Melbourne met in the 1998 preseason grand final.
 
A few weeks ago we were talking about symmetrical games, which produce final scores where both teams kick the same number of goals and behinds - for example 15.15-105 to 11.11-77.

What of the mirror image games, when teams kick the reverse score of each other, for example 13.12-90 to 12.13-85 or 10.9-69 to 9.10-64? These are quite rare with margins of 20 points or more. The largest mirror image difference between two teams was a long time ago and not all that spectacular, a 45-point win by Essendon over St Kilda in Round 3 1941, the accurate Bombers trouncing the inaccurate Saints 16.7-103 to 7.16-58 at the Junction Oval.

Among the lowest scoring matches played prior to 1920 I couldn't find anything overly remarkable such as 3.2-20 to 2.3-15 or anything weird like 10.1-61 to 1.10-16, nor among the very high scoring games could I find any mirror image results such as 25.22-172 to 22.25-157.

So does anyone know the highest and lowest match aggregates for mirror image matches in the AFL/VFL? And outside of the AFL in other high level competitions like the VFA/VFL, SANFL, WAFL or other state leagues does anyone know of any matches that produced far greater differentials than those seen in the AFL, such as 21.8-134 to 8.21-69, or any very high scoring, low scoring or downright weird mirror image matches (as mentioned something like 10.1 to 1.10) in these leagues?
 

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Best starts to a season by reigning premiers

WinsTeamSeasonPercentage at that stageseason finish
18Collingwood1929171.7premier
13Geelong1953155.3runner-up
13Melbourne1956157.3premier
11Carlton1908184.6premier
10Melbourne2022147.5?
9Collingwood1936151.9premier
8Melbourne1965126.47th
8North Melbourne1978141.2runner-up
8Geelong2008144.4runner-up
7Fitzroy1905164.4premier
 
St Kilda have the current longest premiership drought dating back to 1966, their first and to this day only senior premiership. While there have been plenty of clubs with long droughts before, at least most of them got to enjoy at least some success at Reserves or Under 19s level back in the day. However, for the Saints this was never the case, and the Saints' most recent Reserves and Under 19's flags pre-date even this 1966 flag and their move to Moorabbin a year prior. St Kilda defeated Geelong in a low scoring Reserve Grand grand final in 1961, the last time they took home a seconds premiership, while the Saints have just one Under 19s flag in their trophy cabinet, beating cross-lake rivals South Melbourne for the thirds premiership way back in 1957.

Although the Reserves and Under 19s competitions have long gone, the hoodoo continues into the VFL alignments seen today. In the first year 2000 the Saints had a reserves team, but then would align with the Casey (Springvale) Scorpions from 2001 onwards. The Scorpions had been a powerful team in the VFL in the late 1990s, taking home flags in 1995, 1996, 1998 and 1999, but the Saints alignment did not help them add premierships to their cabinet in the early to mid 2000s and they did not appear in the Grand Final in this era.

While all this was going on the Sandringham Zebras, another VFL/VFA power of the 1990s which won the 1992, 1994 and 1997 premierships, and with an alignment with Melbourne from 2000 onwards, the Zebras took full advantage of this to win premierships in 2000, 2004, 2005 and 2006. It seemed a match made in heaven.

Then in 2008 Melbourne and St Kilda switched alignments, the Demons going with Casey and the Saints with Sandringham. The Zebras have not added to their impressive collection of premierships ever since, and in fact even finals appearances have become few and far between for Sandringham with their Saints alignment in the 16 years that have passed since they won their last flag.

Maybe the Saints really are jinxed?
 
emuboy said:
A few weeks ago we were talking about symmetrical games, which produce final scores where both teams kick the same number of goals and behinds - for example 15.15-105 to 11.11-77.

What of the mirror image games, when teams kick the reverse score of each other, for example 13.12-90 to 12.13-85 or 10.9-69 to 9.10-64? These are quite rare with margins of 20 points or more. The largest mirror image difference between two teams was a long time ago and not all that spectacular, a 45-point win by Essendon over St Kilda in Round 3 1941, the accurate Bombers trouncing the inaccurate Saints 16.7-103 to 7.16-58 at the Junction Oval.

Among the lowest scoring matches played prior to 1920 I couldn't find anything overly remarkable such as 3.2-20 to 2.3-15 or anything weird like 10.1-61 to 1.10-16, nor among the very high scoring games could I find any mirror image results such as 25.22-172 to 22.25-157.

So does anyone know the highest and lowest match aggregates for mirror image matches in the AFL/VFL? And outside of the AFL in other high level competitions like the VFA/VFL, SANFL, WAFL or other state leagues does anyone know of any matches that produced far greater differentials than those seen in the AFL, such as 21.8-134 to 8.21-69, or any very high scoring, low scoring or downright weird mirror image matches (as mentioned something like 10.1 to 1.10) in these leagues?
Click to expand...
As long as I've put the right formula into Excel this should be correct (I'm pretty sure I have!):
Lowest match aggregate (63): AFL Tables - 1908 Season Scores
1654272024525.png

Highest match aggregate (231): AFL Tables - 1979 Season Scores
1654272220459.png

There have been 2 "mirror image games" where the final margin has been 45 points (the biggest ever margin in such games). The other game was: AFL Tables - 1973 Season Scores
1654272645448.png

There's been 79 of these games (4 of them finals), where the goal tally of both teams matches the behind tally of their opponents, though that includes 8 games that have been drawn (e.g. 9.9 vs. 9.9). This is the most recent occurrence of this type of game:
1654275456937.png
 
With the West Coast Eagles enduring one of the worst seasons on record, the team running last with a 1-21 record is starting to look a possibility with more than half the season played. If that does happen, Collingwood will add its name to the below dishonorable list of teams that provided 1 win wooden spoon teams their only victory for the season:

1900 - Melbourne (St Kilda)
1901 - Carlton (St Kilda)
1906 - South Melbourne (Melbourne)
1910 - Carlton (St Kilda)
1911 - St Kilda (University)
1912 - Richmond (University)
1927 - North Melbourne (Hawthorn)
1929 - Bulldogs (North Melbourne)
1930 - St Kilda (North Melbourne)
1935 - Bulldogs (North Melbourne)
1942 - Collingwood (Hawthorn)
1943 - Carlton (St Kilda)
1944 - Hawthorn (Geelong)
1947 - North Melbourne (St Kilda)
1951 - Carlton (Melbourne)
1955 - North Melbourne (St Kilda)
1963 - Geelong (Fitzroy)
1966 - Bulldogs (Fitzroy)
1972 - South Melbourne (North Melbourne)
1981 - Bulldogs (Melbourne)
1993 - Melbourne (Sydney)
1996 - Fremantle (Fitzroy)
2013 - GWS Giants (Melbourne)

An even more dishonorable mention goes to the Geelong team of 1975. Somehow the Cats managed to lose both games to the bottom-placed 2-20 South Melbourne team. While there have been a number of 2 win teams both against the same opponent during the same year, usually these have been at the expense of 1 win or winless wooden spoon teams, for example Melbourne 2-16 over University 0-18 in 1914 and South Melbourne 2-16 over Fitzroy 0-18 in 1964.
 
emuboy said:
With the West Coast Eagles enduring one of the worst seasons on record, the team running last with a 1-21 record is starting to look a possibility with more than half the season played. If that does happen, Collingwood will add its name to the below dishonorable list of teams that provided 1 win wooden spoon teams their only victory for the season:

1900 - Melbourne (St Kilda)
1901 - Carlton (St Kilda)
1906 - South Melbourne (Melbourne)
1910 - Carlton (St Kilda)
1911 - St Kilda (University)
1912 - Richmond (University)
1927 - North Melbourne (Hawthorn)
1929 - Bulldogs (North Melbourne)
1930 - St Kilda (North Melbourne)
1935 - Bulldogs (North Melbourne)
1942 - Collingwood (Hawthorn)
1943 - Carlton (St Kilda)
1944 - Hawthorn (Geelong)
1947 - North Melbourne (St Kilda)
1951 - Carlton (Melbourne)
1955 - North Melbourne (St Kilda)
1963 - Geelong (Fitzroy)
1966 - Bulldogs (Fitzroy)
1972 - South Melbourne (North Melbourne)
1981 - Bulldogs (Melbourne)
1993 - Melbourne (Sydney)
1996 - Fremantle (Fitzroy)
2013 - GWS Giants (Melbourne)

An even more dishonorable mention goes to the Geelong team of 1975. Somehow the Cats managed to lose both games to the bottom-placed 2-20 South Melbourne team. While there have been a number of 2 win teams both against the same opponent during the same year, usually these have been at the expense of 1 win or winless wooden spoon teams, for example Melbourne 2-16 over University 0-18 in 1914 and South Melbourne 2-16 over Fitzroy 0-18 in 1964.
Click to expand...

Not the only time Geelong's done that too. Dogs fans seem to be really down on Peter Rhode as their coach, but 8 of their 14 Premiership points came courtesy of their two wins over the Cats in 2003. The latter game at K.P saw the crowd almost speechless as the Dogs led the Cats a merry dance at 3/4 time, 15.8.98 to Geelong's 5.12.42. A kind of lame comeback in the end saw Geelong reduce the deficit to 18 points at the end of the game, (99-81) but that Round 16 loss saw the Dogs register their 2nd (and at that stage only two wins) for the year. They managed a draw against the Eagles midway through the year, and got their only non-Geelong victory in Rd 18 against Melbourne.

The Dogs actually had a rich run of wins against Geelong at K.P in this era around the mid-late 90's and early '00's. Indeed the Dogs won in 1995 (Daniel Hargreaves' one great game), 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002 and 2003. Of the Dog's 15 away wins against Geelong, those 6 occurred in this nine-season spell.

Actually I now notice that this was the only victories a side had when finishing with just one or two wins. Had the Dogs not beaten the Dees in Rd 18 2003, Geelong would have had the 2nd occurrence of this ignominy.
 
Tony Lockett had 2,367 kicks in his career. Scoring shots 1360.590. This means over 82% of his kicks were scores, and there were certainly more than a few OOF set shots in the mix as well. That is astonishing.
 

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Generalissimo said:
Tony Lockett had 2,367 kicks in his career. Scoring shots 1360.590. This means over 82% of his kicks were scores, and there were certainly more than a few OOF set shots in the mix as well. That is astonishing.
Click to expand...
I guess when you play closest to goal and don't leave 30-40 metres of goal, your kicks will almost always be shots.
 
Connor7395 said:
And both times their opponents were goallless too
Click to expand...
Sir Swamp Thing has tweeted that Essendon being involved in goalless final quarters in two consecutive games is the fourth time this has happened in V/AFL.

The other three times all involved Melbourne (in 1897, 1901 and 1913) with the last occasion over 100 years ago.
 
North park said:
Sir Swamp Thing has tweeted that Essendon being involved in goalless final quarters in two consecutive games is the fourth time this has happened in V/AFL.

The other three times all involved Melbourne (in 1897, 1901 and 1913) with the last occasion over 100 years ago.
Click to expand...

A similar bizarre thing happened in the later weeks of the 2019 season, where a hopelessly out of form GWS Giants team went goal-less after half time in successive matches. One was the snow game on a freezing night in Canberra, the other against the Western Bulldogs. It had been 108 years since a team had failed to score a goal after half time two matches in a row, and the team in question which did this in 1911 was the long-gone University team.

But while University went on to finish 1-17 and on the bottom of the ladder in 1911, the Giants of 2019 continued their poor late season form until the last round, where they thrashed the Gold Coast Suns, although that was no great achievement given the Suns hadn't won since mid April. Then following the pre-finals bye the Giants suddenly found form in September, winning their way from the Elimination Final and into the Grand Final, only to be demolished by Richmond by 89-points.
 
In the WAFL today, East Perth and South Fremantle could only be seperated by 11 points in each grade. What's more, South Fremantle was the winner each time!
Colts: SF 50 def EP 39​
Reserves: SF 66 def EP 55​
League: SF 57 def EP 46​
 

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