Stats observations

[worbod]

I thought up a stat recently which revolved around goalkicking accuracy. The idea was to compare who were the most accurate goalkickers after having played 100 games, and then, 200 games (for players whose Career Behinds Totals are known). I was going to begin by using all the players who had kicked more than 400 goals, but after analysing players with 500 or more, my interest in going further faded quickly. Certain players of course bloomed later in their careers as prolific goalkickers, such as Barry Hall, Alastair Lynch, Bernie Quinlan, David Neitz, and thus their goal quantities are not as great as others after 100 games. Anyone else is welcome to grab this stat and analyse it in more detail if they so wish. I found some of my behinds tallies differ from those on *Paul's* website as I used the AFL Season Guide, because it shows behinds details for players whose careers included the 1960s. I also used the Sporting Globe microfilm to get details for Doug Wade, Peter Hudson, Peter McKenna and Kevin Bartlett.

There are other similar stats which could be compiled, such as:
most accurate players after kicking 300 goals, 400, 500, 600, etc.
most accurate players after posting 500 scoring shots.

This is what I have found:

Best accuracies after 100 games.


70.70% Michael Roach . . .333 goals 138 behinds
69.10% Peter Hudson . . . 595 goals 266 behinds
67.89% Tony Lockett . . . 387 goals 183 behinds
66.26% Matthew Lloyd . . .332 goals 169 behinds
65.00% Sav Rocca . . . . .351 goals 189 behinds
64.86% Jason Dunstall . . 419 goals 227 behinds
64.57% Kelvin Templeton . 381 goals 209 behinds
63.73% Peter McKenna . . .457 goals 260 behinds
61.90% Stephen Kernahan . 260 goals 160 behinds
61.63% Michael Moncrieff .286 goals 178 behinds
61.61% David Neitz . . . .130 goals 81 behinds
61.52% Matthew Richardson 307 goals 192 behinds
59.86% Barry Hall . . . . 179 goals 120 behinds
59.22% Wayne Carey . . . .244 goals 168 behinds
58.17% Brendan Fevola . . 242 goals 174 behinds
55.89% Gary Ablett . . . .332 goals 262 behinds
54.60% Doug Wade . . . . .338 goals 281 behinds
54.12% Alastair Lynch . . 105 goals 89 behinds
48.95% Leigh Matthews . . 210 goals 219 behinds
47.38% Bernie Quinlan . . 136 goals 151 behinds
44.98% Kevin Bartlett . . 148 goals 181 behinds

 

[worbod]

Best accuracies after 200 games:



70.09% Tony Lockett . . . 994 goals 424 behinds
68.21% Matthew Lloyd . . .721 goals 336 behinds
66.48% Michael Roach . . .607 goals 306 behinds
65.51% Jason Dunstall . . 984 goals 518 behinds
64.12% Sav Rocca . . . . .613 goals 343 behinds
63.20% Barry Hall . . . . 481 goals 280 behinds
62.93% Michael Moncrieff .557 goals 328 behinds
61.55% David Neitz . . . .349 goals 218 behinds
61.52% Stephen Kernahan . 598 goals 374 behinds
60.54% Brendan Fevola . . 617 goals 402 behinds
60.26% Wayne Carey . . . .540 goals 356 behinds
60.26% Matthew Richardson 599 goals 395 behinds
60.00% Alastair Lynch . . 303 goals 202 behinds
59.54% Gary Ablett . . . .805 goals 547 behinds
59.07% Doug Wade . . . . .804 goals 557 behinds
54.39% Leigh Matthews . . 526 goals 441 behinds
49.46% Bernie Quinlan . . 279 goals 285 behinds
48.41% Kevin Bartlett . . 336 goals 358 behinds

 

[worbod]

I should have said my interest faded after analysing players with more than 600 goals, not 500.

 

[UpForGrabs]

A few years ago I asked a question as to who had scored the most goals against particular opponents in one season. The leader was Peter McKenna with his 32 goals against Carlton in four games in 1970 (8, 9, 9, 6). Pretty sure it was Ron the Bear who compiled the list.

In relation to other efforts in other major leagues, I have discovered Peter Hudson scoring 52 for Glenorchy versus Hobart in 1979 (7, 15, 18, 12).
Not sure if this is the outright record for the SANFL, but Ken Farmer kicked 37 for North Adelaide versus South Adelaide in three games in 1933 (9, 12, 16).
Wonder if Up For Grabs knows the WAFL record.

In the Victorian Amateurs comp Bill Pearson kicked 54 for Old Scotch versus University Blacks in four games in 1934 (24, 17, 2, 11).

Yep - that's an easy one.

Bernie Naylor vs Subiaco in 1953.

Kicked 48.13 in three matches

Rd 2 - 18.3
Rd 9 - 7.4
Rd 16 - 23.6

 

[Slattery_20]

7.4 ?
Shithouse.




LOL

 

[UpForGrabs]

7.4 ?
Shithouse.




LOL

Was only the equal 11th highest tally he kicked that season. Such a slacker.

 

[Slattery_20]

Was only the equal 11th highest tally he kicked that season. Such a slacker.

Can just imagine it... Naylor walking off, dejected. Serious discussions at the selection table. Media comment, is he past his best, perhaps a different position... the full-back on him would've been in the votes that week...

 

[worbod]

Just for the sake of posting something, here is Peter Hudson's complete goalkicking record from 1979.

6 Tasmania vs Geelong (practice match)
4 Tasmania vs Footscray (VFL night series)
14 Glenorchy vs Dandenong (practice match)
9 Glenorchy vs New Norfolk
7 Glenorchy vs Hobart
11 Glenorchy vs North Hobart
11 TFL vs NTFA (intrastate)
6 Glenorchy vs Sandy Bay
6 Glenorchy vs Clarence
11 Glenorchy vs New Norfolk
15 Glenorchy vs Hobart
3 TFL vs NWFU (intrastate)
0 Glenorchy vs North Hobart (did not play)
7 Glenorchy vs Sandy Bay
6 Glenorchy vs Clarence
5 Tasmania vs Victoria (interstate)
7 Glenorchy vs New Norfolk
18 Glenorchy vs Hobart
1 Glenorchy vs North Hobart
7 Glenorchy vs Sandy Bay
8 Glenorchy vs Clarence
8 Glenorchy vs New Norfolk
12 Glenorchy vs Hobart
16 Glenorchy vs North Hobart
7 Glenorchy vs Sandy Bay
3 Glenorchy vs Clarence
8 Glenorchy vs Clarence (2nd semi)
6 Glenorchy vs Clarence (Grand Final)
7 Tasmania vs Queensland (interstate)
0 Tasmania vs Western Australia (interstate)

His record in the TFL competition was 21 games for 179 goals. Including the two practice matches he played 29 games for 229 goals with a 7.89 average.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Just for the sake of posting something, here is Peter Hudson's complete goalkicking record from 1979.

6 Tasmania vs Geelong (practice match)
4 Tasmania vs Footscray (VFL night series)
14 Glenorchy vs Dandenong (practice match)
9 Glenorchy vs New Norfolk
7 Glenorchy vs Hobart
11 Glenorchy vs North Hobart
11 TFL vs NTFA (intrastate)
6 Glenorchy vs Sandy Bay
6 Glenorchy vs Clarence
11 Glenorchy vs New Norfolk
15 Glenorchy vs Hobart
3 TFL vs NWFU (intrastate)
0 Glenorchy vs North Hobart (did not play)
7 Glenorchy vs Sandy Bay
6 Glenorchy vs Clarence
5 Tasmania vs Victoria (interstate)
7 Glenorchy vs New Norfolk
18 Glenorchy vs Hobart
1 Glenorchy vs North Hobart
7 Glenorchy vs Sandy Bay
8 Glenorchy vs Clarence
8 Glenorchy vs New Norfolk
12 Glenorchy vs Hobart
16 Glenorchy vs North Hobart
7 Glenorchy vs Sandy Bay
3 Glenorchy vs Clarence
8 Glenorchy vs Clarence (2nd semi)
6 Glenorchy vs Clarence (Grand Final)
7 Tasmania vs Queensland (interstate)
0 Tasmania vs Western Australia (interstate)

His record in the TFL competition was 21 games for 179 goals. Including the two practice matches he played 29 games for 229 goals with a 7.89 average.

Incredible numbers from Huddo.

I wonder how the rest of his career stacked up in terms of goals per year and each round except for VFL level.

Surely he'd've eclipsed Plugger's 1360 and Ken Farmer's 1419 or something.

 

[SJ]

I have been alerted any thread existing pre-migration does not appear on Tapatalk.

To rectify this thread I have merged with a new thread, thus this should now appear.

Let me know if it still can't be seen.

 

[worbod]

Incredible numbers from Huddo.

I wonder how the rest of his career stacked up in terms of goals per year and each round except for VFL level.

Surely he'd've eclipsed Plugger's 1360 and Ken Farmer's 1419 or something.

Without going through Huddo's career game by game, this is what he achieved in the Tasmanian Football League, representing New Norfolk, Glenorchy, Tasmania and the TFL:

New Norfolk
1963 18 games, 79 goals, 4.38 avge
. . . 2 intrastate games, 8 goals
1964 19 games, 86 goals, 4.52 avge
. . . 2 state games, 4 goals
. . . 3 intrastate games, 23 goals
1965 19 games, 110 goals, 5.78 avge
. . . 2 state games, 11 goals
. . . 2 intrastate games, 12 goals
1966 19 games, 103 goals, 5.42 avge
. . . 4 state games, 20 goals
. . . 2 intrastate games, 17 goals
Glenorchy
1975 13 games, 69 goals, 5.30 avge
. . . 1 state game, 8 goals
. . . 1 BP Cup game, 4 goals (Glenorchy vs Sandy Bay)
. . . 2 Aust Club Championship games, 12 goals
1976 18 games, 134 goals, 7.44 avge
. . . 2 state games, 12 goals
. . . 2 intrastate games, 11 goals
1978 20 games, 153 goals, 7.65 avge
. . . 3 state games, 15 goals
. . . 2 intrastate games, 17 goals
. . . 1 VFL night series game, 6 goals (for Tasmania)
1979 21 games, 179 goals, 8.52 avge
. . . 3 state games, 12 goals
. . . 2 intrastate games, 14 goals
. . . 1 VFL night series game, 4 goals (for Tasmania)
1981 3 games, 30 goals, 10.00 avge

150 TFL games, 943 goals, 6.28 avge
17 state games, 82 goals, 4.82 avge
15 intrastate games, 102 goals, 6.80 avge

Not sure what the BP Cup was, but it was worthy enough to be reported in the Hobart Mercury.
I have heard that Huddo went goalless in one of his comeback games in 1981, so he could have played 151 TFL games instead of 150. I haven't discovered the alleged game as yet.

 

[Slattery_20]

Paul Johnson has played for 3 clubs - 2 of them with a 100% winning record.

How often has that happened?

 

[Ron The Bear]

Paul Johnson has played for 3 clubs - 2 of them with a 100% winning record.

How often has that happened?

No other player has done that. The only players with a 100% record at two clubs are:

Player|Clubs|Career|Matches|Club|Club Ma
\Abbott, Les|Co,Ca,Ri,Me,Sy|1904-1912|39|Co|1
\||||Ca*|1
\||||Ri|31
\||||Me|3
\||||Sy*|3
\Dutton, Robert|Ca,Ha|1981-1982|2|Ca|1
\||||Ha|1
\Hay, Charlie|Ca,Es|1910-1911|3|Ca|1
\||||Es|2
\Johnson, Paul A.|WC,Me,Ha|2003-2011|70|WC*|1
\||||Me|68
\||||Ha*|1
\Loughnan, Jack|Ca,Fi|1912-1913|2|Ca|1
\||||Fi|1
\Moore, Jim|Me,Es|1911-1913|2|Me|1
\||||Es|1
\Neylan, Jim|Fi,Ca|1906-1910|4|Fi|1
\||||Ca|3

 

[Slattery_20]

Looking up that Abbott, I'm guessing he is the only guy with a 100% record at two clubs and a 0% record at two other clubs. What an oddball career.

 

[Rourke]

Western Bulldogs in their 11 home games in 2012 scored 107.134 (776) while conceding 172.105 (1137). Their home accuracy of 44.4% is by far the lowest of any team (next: Collingwood 47.9%). Their opponents' accuracy in Bulldogs home games was 62.1%, again the most extreme (next: Port Adelaide 57.0%). This discrepancy of -17.7% is four standard deviations from the rest of the competition (about 1 in 30,000 if random variable)

In their 11 away games, their accuracy both for and against was close to the league average.

However, by my calculations 'fixing' their home goalkicking would only have led to at most one more win, possibly against Carlton where they had 12.12 to 16.6.

 

[SJ]

Gee that's really bad, and most of those would have been in perfect conditions under the roof.

The 2012 Dogs did have one of the worst forward lines of any team I've seen though.

 

[RogersResults]

Western Bulldogs in their 11 home games in 2012 scored 107.134 (776) while conceding 172.105 (1137). Their home accuracy of 44.4% is by far the lowest of any team (next: Collingwood 47.9%). Their opponents' accuracy in Bulldogs home games was 62.1%, again the most extreme (next: Port Adelaide 57.0%). This discrepancy of -17.7% is four standard deviations from the rest of the competition (about 1 in 30,000 if random variable)

In their 11 away games, their accuracy both for and against was close to the league average.

However, by my calculations 'fixing' their home goalkicking would only have led to at most one more win, possibly against Carlton where they had 12.12 to 16.6.

Interesting observation. With 10 of those matches being at Docklands, we could wonder what the outcome might be if with the current team, the Bulldogs took up the offer of playing 'home' games at Kardinia Park?

It's rare for the difference between the goals/behinds percentage of scores for and against to exceed more that a few percent in a season.
Rarely does the difference go above 10% - some examples have been: St Kilda 1899 32.5% and 44.5%, Nth Melb. 1931 39.7% and 51.7%, Hawthorn 1950 39.8% and 50.5%, Sydney/SM 1972 42.7% and 54.6%, Richmond 1993 46.4% and 57.5%.

A parallel with the Dogs in 2012 at 'home' is the following:

From round 9, 2003 to round 1, 2009 over ten consecutive matches against Hawthorn, Geelong scored exactly twice as many behinds but equal goals. Geelong won 6 and Hawthorn 4 including the 2008 Grand Final (and the Hawks contribution of 11 Geelong behinds).
Geelong 127.172-934 v Hawthorn 127.86-848.

Hawthorn's goals to behinds ratio in these matches was 59.62%, Geelong's 42.47%.

Geelong perhaps began to reverse the trend when they defeated Hawthorn in round 17, 2009 - 15.9-99 to 14.14-98 and from then to the end of 2012 have scored 117.95-797 to Hawthorn's 105.96-726

Here's another goals/behinds percentange oddity.

In 2005 Collingwood's opponents scored 357.283 for a G/B% of 55.8 - the highest ever in a season against Collingwood.
In 2006 Collingwood scored for the season 357.283 for a G/B% of 55.8 - the highest ever in a season by Collingwood.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Interesting observation. With 10 of those matches being at Docklands, we could wonder what the outcome might be if with the current team, the Bulldogs took up the offer of playing 'home' games at Kardinia Park?

It's rare for the difference between the goals/behinds percentage of scores for and against to exceed more that a few percent in a season.
Rarely does the difference go above 10% - some examples have been: St Kilda 1899 32.5% and 44.5%, Nth Melb. 1931 39.7% and 51.7%, Hawthorn 1950 39.8% and 50.5%, Sydney/SM 1972 42.7% and 54.6%, Richmond 1993 46.4% and 57.5%.

A parallel with the Dogs in 2012 at 'home' is the following:

From round 9, 2003 to round 1, 2009 over ten consecutive matches against Hawthorn, Geelong scored exactly twice as many behinds but equal goals. Geelong won 6 and Hawthorn 4 including the 2008 Grand Final (and the Hawks contribution of 11 Geelong behinds).
Geelong 127.172-934 v Hawthorn 127.86-848.

Hawthorn's goals to behinds ratio in these matches was 59.62%, Geelong's 42.47%.

Geelong perhaps began to reverse the trend when they defeated Hawthorn in round 17, 2009 - 15.9-99 to 14.14-98 and from then to the end of 2012 have scored 117.95-797 to Hawthorn's 105.96-726

Here's another goals/behinds percentange oddity.

In 2005 Collingwood's opponents scored 357.283 for a G/B% of 55.8 - the highest ever in a season against Collingwood.
In 2006 Collingwood scored for the season 357.283 for a G/B% of 55.8 - the highest ever in a season by Collingwood.

You're getting better Rogers.

The Collingwood goals behind gem is brilliant.

 

[Falchoon]

Random observation.

The rd 21 1994 game between Footscray and St Kilda contained Footscray's top 4 in games played and St Kilda's top 3.


Johnson
Grant
Hawkins
West
Harvey
Loewe
Burke

The only other traditional club that could match this would be the Swans, with O'Keefe about to move into 4th place. But Harvey, Burke and Loewe never took the field together against O'Keefe.

 

[RogersResults]

WB/Footscray in round 10 1952, Hawthorn in round 15 1952 and West Coast in round 2, 2008 all lost their 500th matches in the competition with scores of 57 points - 8.9, 9.3 and 8.9 respectively. No other 500th match scores have been shared.

 

[RogersResults]

Essendon and St Kilda both scored 13.17-95 in their 750th matches. Essendon defeated WB/Footscray in round 13 of 1940 and St Kilda lost to WB/Footscray in round 18 of 1941.

 

[RogersResults]

Melbourne's 666th match saw them score 11.13.79 to defeat Essendon in round 13 1937.
Hawthorn's 666th match saw them score 11.13.79 to defeat Essendon in round 16 1961.

 

[RogersResults]

Sydney/SM's 13th match saw them defeat Essendon with a score of 6.9-45 in round 13 1897.
Richmond's 13th match saw them defeat Essendon with a score of 7.3-45 in round 13 of 1908.

Carlton's 13th match saw them defeat St Kilda with a score of 8.11-59 in round 13 of 1897.
Hawthorn's 13th match saw them defeat St Kilda with a score of 8.11-59 in round 13 of 1925.

 

[worbod]

Random observation.

The rd 21 1994 game between Footscray and St Kilda contained Footscray's top 4 in games played and St Kilda's top 3.


Johnson
Grant
Hawkins
West
Harvey
Loewe
Burke

The only other traditional club that could match this would be the Swans, with O'Keefe about to move into 4th place. But Harvey, Burke and Loewe never took the field together against O'Keefe.

In terms of goals kicked, I don't believe any top 3 or 4 combinations can be created. There are some top 2 scenarios, with Dick Lee and Gordon Coventry having played some games together at Collingwood, whilst Wayne Carey and John Longmire played together at North. The only top 3 scenario that comes to mind is the retrospective one of Leigh Matthews, Peter Hudson and Michael Moncrieff having played together at Hawthorn before the arrival of Jason Dunstall.

 

[Falchoon]

In terms of goals kicked, I don't believe any top 3 or 4 combinations can be created. There are some top 2 scenarios, with Dick Lee and Gordon Coventry having played some games together at Collingwood, whilst Wayne Carey and John Longmire played together at North. The only top 3 scenario that comes to mind is the retrospective one of Leigh Matthews, Peter Hudson and Michael Moncrieff having played together at Hawthorn before the arrival of Jason Dunstall.

An interesting goal kicking one is the Saints 2001 team.

Of the 53 500+ goalkickers to have played , 5 played for the Saints in 2001.

Hall 746
Loewe 594
Gehrig 549
Milne 546
Riewoldt 520