Stats observations

[Ron The Bear]

Related to the above - latest match in which each club's top 2, 3, 4 & 5 players for matches played at the time, played in the same team:

|Top 2|||||Top 3|||||Top 4|||||Top 5|||
\Club|Year|Rd|Match #|Players||Year|Rd|Match #|Players||Year|Rd|Match #|Players||Year|Rd|Match #|Players
\Ad|2010|11|453|McLeod, Edwards||2003|SF|301|Bickley/Smart, Hart||2003|SF|301|Bickley/Smart, Hart, Ricciuto||2003|SF|301|Bickley/Smart, Hart, Ricciuto, McLeod
\Br|2003|GF|392|Ashcroft, Hart||2003|GF|392|Ashcroft, Hart, White||2003|GF|392|Ashcroft, Hart, White, Voss||2003|GF|392|Ashcroft, Hart, White, Voss, Lappin
\Ca|1971|22|1399|Nicholls, Silvagni||1911|SF|273|Elliott, Bruce, McGregor||1900|S1|63|Walton, Casey, Walsh, Sharkey||1900|S1|63|Walton, Casey, Walsh, Sharkey, Morrison
\Co|1920|1|418|McHale, Hughes||1920|1|418|McHale, Hughes, Lee||1906|SF|181|Pannam, Monohan, Leach, Condon||1906|4|167|Pannam, Monohan, Condon, Leach, Rush
\Es|1949|15|934|Reynolds, Buttsworth||1904|SF|144|Anderson, Barry, Gavin||1902|SF|107|Kinnear, Gavin, Barry, Martin||1902|S3|106|Kinnear, Gavin, Barry, Hastings/Martin
\Fr|2007|14|282|Parker, McManus||2007|14|282|Parker, McManus, Pavlich||2007|14|282|Parker, McManus, Pavlich, Hasleby||2007|4|272|Parker, McManus, Pavlich, Hasleby, Walker
\Ge|1980|19|1534|Newman, I.Nankervis||1909|18|225|Rankin, Young, Newling||1909|18|225|Rankin, Young, Newling, Eason||1909|18|225|Rankin, Young, Newling, Eason, Grigg
\GC|2012|21|42|Brennan, Ablett||2012|20|41|Brennan, Ablett/McKenzie||2012|19|40|Brennan, Ablett/McKenzie/Smith||2012|19|40|Brennan, Ablett/McKenzie/Smith, Rischitelli
\GWS|2012|23|22|Davis, Giles/Power/Smith/Ward||2012|23|22|Davis, Giles/Power/Smith/Ward||2012|23|22|Davis, Giles/Power/Smith/Ward||2012|23|22|Davis, Giles/Power/Smith/Ward
\Ha|1981|22|1101|Scott, Moore||1981|22|1101|Scott, Moore, Matthews||1932|2|127|Sellers, Pool, Hyde, Utting||1932|2|127|Sellers, Pool, Hyde, Utting, Stewart
\Me|1904|S3|139|Young, Moodie||1903|S1|120|Young, Moodie, Leith||1903|S1|120|Young, Moodie, Leith, Lewis||1901|10|80|McGinnis, Lewis, Young, Leith, Moodie
\NM|1985|EF|1203|Greig, Schimmelbusch||1983|PF|1158|Dench, Greig, Schimmelbusch||1928|11|64|Russ, Healy/Lambe, Dwyer||1927|11|46|Walsh, Healy/Lambe/Russ, Metcalf
\PA|2009|20|301|Tredrea, P.Burgoyne||2009|20|301|Tredrea, P.Burgoyne, Lade||2009|20|301|Tredrea, P.Burgoyne, Lade, C.Cornes||2008|13|272|Tredrea, P.Burgoyne, Lade, C.Cornes, Wilson
\Ri|1921|GF|240|Thorp, Herbert||1921|GF|240|Thorp, Herbert, James||1921|GF|240|Thorp, Herbert, James, Hall||1915|7|132|Mahoney, Ohlson, James, Thorp, Herbert
\St|2002|3|1984|Loewe, Burke||1921|18|394|Lever, Dangerfield, Eicke||1919|17|362|Lever, Dangerfield, Woodcock, Eicke||1902|7|89|Hall, Matthews, H.Smith, McCabe, McNamara
\Sy|1919|18|389|Belcher, Caldwell||1904|2|119|Pleass, Windley, Howson||1902|S3|100|Windley, Pleass, Adamson, Howson||1902|S1|98|Windley, Pleass, Adamson, Fraser/Howson
\WC|2000|22|332|McKenna, Kemp||2000|22|332|McKenna, Kemp, Matera||1998|22|285|McKenna, Lewis, Worsfold, Mainwaring||1998|22|285|McKenna, Lewis, Worsfold, Mainwaring, Kemp
\WB|1946|SF|395|Morrison, Olliver/Ware||1946|SF|395|Morrison, Olliver/Ware||1932|18|143|Hopkins, Aked, Baker/McAlpine||1932|13|138|Hopkins, Aked, McAlpine, Baker, Morrison
\Fi|1910|4|240|Jenkins, Sharp||1908|8|208|Jenkins, Barker, Sharp||1903|GF|125|McSpeerin, Jenkins/Sharpe, Kiernan||1903|GF|125|McSpeerin, Jenkins/Sharpe, Kiernan, Clarke
\Un|1913|8|98|Hurrey, Gray||1913|8|98|Hurrey, Gray, Elliott||1913|8|98|Hurrey, Gray, Elliott, Brake||1912|16|88|Hurrey, Gray, Elliott, Brake/Tymms

 

[worbod]

Have recently been reading through some microfilm of the LaTrobe Valley Express,taking an interest in Fred Swift's career at Morwell. Interesting to observe that the LaTrobe Valley League were using a final six during that time (early 1970s), when most other leagues were still using a final four. There were only ten teams in the LVFL at the time, with the VFL/AFL still 20 years away from instigating their own final six.

 

[RogersResults]

Have recently been reading through some microfilm of the LaTrobe Valley Express,taking an interest in Fred Swift's career at Morwell. Interesting to observe that the LaTrobe Valley League were using a final six during that time (early 1970s), when most other leagues were still using a final four. There were only ten teams in the LVFL at the time, with the VFL/AFL still 20 years away from instigating their own final six.

A final six was first proposed to the Victorian Football League in 1941 by George Cathie. Cathie, the founding editor of the Football Record, a Hawthorn and Geelong delegate to the League and for a time honourary (unpaid) treasurer of the League had previously suggested that matches be played in Sydney every year for premiership points (1927), proposed that exhibition matches be played in the United States (1932), proposed that the League be expanded to 20 teams (1933) and that a 20th man (reserve) be introduced (1937) - to the last suggestion the League president Dr. McClelland speaking against the proposal said, "Why stop at two? Why not three of four?"

McClelland has been honoured by a trophy in his name since 1951. Cathie's ideas most of which didn't come to fruition in his lifetime is little known or remembered. As for the LaTrobe Valley, the regions are often more innovative than the metropolis as there is often less resistance to change. Its why Australian Football developed in Melbourne and not Sydney (nor London for that matter.)

 

[RogersResults]

Last days trivia:

Collingwood played their 1,995th match during the 1995 season (round 20)
Carlton played their 1,997th match during the 1997 season (round 5)
Essendon played their 1,998th match during the 1998 season (QF)
Essendon played their 1,999th match during the 1999 season (round 1)
Geelong played their 2000th match during the 2000 season (round 21)
Sydney/SM played their 2001st match during the 2001 season (round 4)
Melbourne played their 2001st match during the 2001 season (round 7)
St Kilda played their 2,002nd match during the 2002 season (round 21)
Richmond played their 2008th match during the 2008 season (round 3)

 

[Ron The Bear]

Only one combination in the history of VFL/AFL football has reappeared in a different season - the Western Bulldogs' 22 of Round 10, 2005, which played together again in Rounds 1 & 2, 2006.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Only one combination in the history of VFL/AFL football has reappeared in a different season - the Western Bulldogs' 22 of Round 10, 2005, which played together again in Rounds 1 & 2, 2006.

Have Rogers, Worbod and yourself ever met in person?

Because it seems that, with the amount of stats that shoot off left, right and centre, you're bouncing off each other.

Statistical anomaly connoisseurs at its finest.

 

[RogersResults]

Have Rogers, Worbod and yourself ever met in person?

Because it seems that, with the amount of stats that shoot off left, right and centre, you're bouncing off each other.

Statistical anomaly connoisseurs at its finest.

There is probably a law in the universe that says that it can't happen.

 

[RogersResults]

Best/Worst Results from X consecutive matches.

In 2012:

• Fremantle recorded their best result from 10 consecutive matches.

• The Bulldogs saw out the season by recording their worst ever result in 10 matches.

• Gold Coast’s worst result from 10 ranks as the 8th least worst ever recorded.

• The Giants recorded the 2nd worst ever result from 10 matches in the history of the League.

• Gold Coast’s worst result from 25 ranks as the 13th least worst ever recorded.

• Port Adelaide recorded their worst result from 25, 100 and 200 consecutive matches.

• Geelong recorded their best result from 200 and 300 matches.

• Fremantle recorded their best result from 300 matches.

Full Tables Starting Here:

 

[RogersResults]

In 2012 Hawthorn established a new club record for the most points scored in 10 consecutive matches.
Below are each club's record number of points scored in 10 consecutive matches.

Note that only two of those sequences took place (partly) in
a premiership year (Essendon 2000-1, Richmond 1979-80)

Since 1970, 14 teams have failed to score in a complete season as many points as Geelong did in those 10 matches in 1992.

 

[Ron The Bear]

In the past 50 years, only 7 men have coached premiership teams without having previously been involved in a senior VFL/AFL flag as player or coach. The table shows the number of coaches with a prior flag to their name for each season:

Year|Clubs|PC|PC%|New
\2013|18|11|61|
\2012|18|11|61|
\2011|17|13|76|
\2010|16|12|75|
\2009|16|12|75|
\2008|16|11|69|Clarkson
\2007|16|11|69|
\2006|16|11|69|
\2005|16|10|63|Roos
\2004|16|9|56|Williams
\2003|16|9|56|
\2002|16|10|63|
\2001|16|11|69|
\2000|16|12|75|
\1999|16|12|75|
\1998|16|12|75|
\1997|16|14|88|
\1996|16|12|75|Pagan
\1995|16|12|75|
\1994|15|11|73|
\1993|15|11|73|
\1992|15|12|80|
\1991|15|11|73|
\1990|14|11|79|
\1989|14|12|86|
\1988|14|12|86|Joyce
\1987|14|13|93|
\1986|12|11|92|
\1985|12|11|92|
\1984|12|10|83|
\1983|12|9|75|
\1982|12|11|92|
\1981|12|12|100|
\1980|12|10|83|
\1979|12|9|75|
\1978|12|9|75|
\1977|12|9|75|
\1976|12|9|75|
\1975|12|9|75|
\1974|12|8|67|
\1973|12|9|75|
\1972|12|10|83|
\1971|12|11|92|
\1970|12|10|83|
\1969|12|9|75|
\1968|12|9|75|
\1967|12|8|67|Hafey
\1966|12|6|50|Jeans
\1965|12|7|58|
\1964|12|8|66|
\1963|12|8|67|
\Totals|695|519|75|14%

There are seven hopefuls in 2013, some seemingly with a good shot at adding their name to the elite list - Buckley, Sanderson, Lyon, Watters, Neeld, Hinkley & McCartney.

 

[RogersResults]

In the past 50 years, only 7 men have coached premiership teams without having previously been involved in a senior VFL/AFL flag as player or coach. The table shows the number of coaches with a prior flag to their name for each season:

There are seven hopefuls in 2013, some seemingly with a good shot at adding their name to the elite list - Buckley, Sanderson, Lyon, Watters, Neeld, Hinkley & McCartney.

Some had premiership success in other competitions before their League appointments: Hafey coached Shepparton to three flags, Joyce coached Preston VFA to two 1st Division flags, Pagan coached Nth Melbourne U-19s to 9 consecutive grand finals - winning 5 flags. The development of the assistant coach's position as an apprenticeship for a senior coaching position probably means that the number of premiership coaches without previous premiership experience at any level will increase.

 

[RogersResults]

Balance Sheet - Points For over Points Conceded. 1897-2012

• By round 8 1968 Hawthorn had deficit of 14,071 points from matches played since joining the League in 1925. They go into 2013 only 706 points from being in the ‘black’ for the first time ever.

• In the last 9 seasons, St Kilda have reduced their deficit by 3,136 points. At that rate they might work off their accumulated deficit in about 56 years.

• Of the original clubs from 1897, Geelong and Collingwood are the only ones to have been improving their best margin of total points scored over total points conceded in the most recent seasons.

• Port Adelaide goes into 2012, 113 points off their worst ever accumulated deficit.

• After their worst season points deficit in 2011, Adelaide achieved their 3rd highest season surplus of points scored over points conceded in 2012.

• In 2012, Brisbane had a 3rd consecutive season of scoring fewer points that they conceded for the first time since seasons 1993-5.

• In 2012, Carlton had a 4th consecutive season of scoring more points that they conceded for the first time since seasons 1993-6.

• In 2012, Collingwood had a 7th consecutive season of scoring more points that they conceded for the first time since seasons 1954-60.

• In 2012, Essendon broke their longest run of seasons without scoring more than they conceded.

• Fremantle in 2012 scored their biggest season margin of points scored over points conceded since entering the competition.

• In 2012, Geelong recorded their 6th consecutive season of scoring more than they conceded – their record is 10 consecutive 1961-70.

• In 2012, Hawthorn set a new club record for the margin of points scored over points conceded in a season, surpassing by 13 points their previous record set in 1988.

• Melbourne’s deficit at the end of 2012 is at its highest in the club’s history.

• Nth Melbourne in 2012 had a consecutive season of scoring more points than they conceded for the first time since 1998-9.

• In 2012, Richmond broke a streak of 10 consecutive seasons scoring fewer points than they conceded – their second longest after 12 seasons scoring fewer points than they conceded 1983-1994.

• In 2012, St Kilda had a 5th consecutive season of scoring more points that they conceded for the first time since seasons 1969-73.

• In 2012, Sydney/Sth Melbourne recorded their greatest margin of points scored in a season over points scored. breaking a club record that had stood since 1934. (Sydney/SM have scored more than they conceded in in all but two of their last 18 seasons.)

• The Western Bulldogs/Footscray’s points deficit in 2012 was their greatest in a season since 1982.

• West Coast’s points surplus for 2012 was their highest since 1994.
  
  Full Tables Starting Here

 

[Derby103]

• By round 8 1968 Hawthorn had deficit of 14,071 points from matches played since joining the League in 1925. They go into 2013 only 706 points from being in the ‘black’ for the first time ever.

Not quite the first time ever! A goal to Yeoman midway through the first quarter of Hawthorn's first league match, on 2 May 1925 against Richmond, was reported to have put Hawthorn in front by a point - the only time it led during the game.

 

[RogersResults]

Not quite the first time ever! A goal to Yeoman midway through the first quarter of Hawthorn's first league match, on 2 May 1925 against Richmond, was reported to have put Hawthorn in front by a point - the only time it led during the game.

Its a pity that we don't have recorded all the progressive scores during matches going back to 1897, the end of quarter scores don't always give the a clear picture of the progression of a match and the amount of stats trivia would expand by a huge amount!

The report in The Argus of Hawthorn's first League match also contains the following,

" It is essential that the score board should be properly controlled. On Saturday, owing to the number of small boys that perched precariously from every part of it, it was at times impossible to read the scores, which all day were posted incorrectly, Hawthorn's score at the finish being shown as 5—7, whereas the goal umpires reported it should have been 5—9."

The score that has come down to us is 5-8. (There was a time when the goal umpires had until the middle of the following week to get their report of the final scores to the League.)

 

[RogersResults]

We all know that the team that made the most efficient use of the ball when they had it in range of the goals won last year's Grand Final. What may not be known is that the club that did it is the historic leader in winning matches with fewer scoring shots.​

​

Number and percentage of matches played that were wins with fewer scoring shots 1897-2012.​

Ordered by percentage of matches played.​

​

Note: The 2012 Grand Final was a 'book-end' for the Swans - the first ever League match won with fewer scoring shots was the then Sth Melbourne's win over Carlton in Round 2 of the 1897 season - 6.4-40 vs. 5.6-36.​

 

[worbod]

Last days trivia:

Collingwood played their 1,995th match during the 1995 season (round 20)
Carlton played their 1,997th match during the 1997 season (round 5)
Essendon played their 1,998th match during the 1998 season (QF)
Essendon played their 1,999th match during the 1999 season (round 1)
Geelong played their 2000th match during the 2000 season (round 21)
Sydney/SM played their 2001st match during the 2001 season (round 4)
Melbourne played their 2001st match during the 2001 season (round 7)
St Kilda played their 2,002nd match during the 2002 season (round 21)
Richmond played their 2008th match during the 2008 season (round 3)

Inspired by the post quoted, I decided to compile the following:

After joining the league in 1897,
Collingwood and Essendon kicked their 1911th goal in 1911
Carlton and Fitzroy kicked their 1912th goal in 1912
Geelong and South Melbourne kicked their 1913th goal in 1913
Melbourne kicked their 1914th goal in 1914
St. Kilda kicked their 1918th goal in 1918 (they missed playing in 1916 and 1917 during this time-frame)

After joining the league in 1908,
Richmond kicked their 1922nd goal in 1922

After joining the league in 1925,
Footscray kicked their 1935th goal in 1935
Hawthorn and North Melbourne kicked their 1936th goal in 1936

After joining the league in 1987,
West Coast kicked their 1992nd goal in 1992
Brisbane kicked their 1994th goal in 1994

And then,
Adelaide kicked their 1997th goal in 1997
Fremantle kicked their 2002nd goal in 2002
Port Adelaide kicked their 2003rd goal in 2003

For those who like to think of Brisbane Lions as a separate entity, they kicked their 2002nd goal in 2002.

These figures aren't meant to prove anything specific, I just got inspired by the numbers. Of course, it has taken the modern teams less seasons to reach their denoted milestones from when they joined the league, due to more games played per season and heavier scoring.

 

[RogersResults]

Inspired by the post quoted, I decided to compile the following:

After joining the league in 1897,
Collingwood and Essendon kicked their 1911th goal in 1911
Carlton and Fitzroy kicked their 1912th goal in 1912
Geelong and South Melbourne kicked their 1913th goal in 1913
Melbourne kicked their 1914th goal in 1914
St. Kilda kicked their 1918th goal in 1918 (they missed playing in 1916 and 1917 during this time-frame)

After joining the league in 1908,
Richmond kicked their 1922nd goal in 1922

After joining the league in 1925,
Footscray kicked their 1935th goal in 1935
Hawthorn and North Melbourne kicked their 1936th goal in 1936

After joining the league in 1987,
West Coast kicked their 1992nd goal in 1992
Brisbane kicked their 1994th goal in 1994

And then,
Adelaide kicked their 1997th goal in 1997
Fremantle kicked their 2002nd goal in 2002
Port Adelaide kicked their 2003rd goal in 2003

For those who like to think of Brisbane Lions as a separate entity, they kicked their 2002nd goal in 2002.

These figures aren't meant to prove anything specific, I just got inspired by the numbers. Of course, it has taken the modern teams less seasons to reach their denoted milestones from when they joined the league, due to more games played per season and heavier scoring.

And University who weren't in the competiition long enough to score enough goals to match the year, scored their 1909th point during their last match of 1909.
There are some mathematical properties at work here (or maybe just the propensity of the brain to find patterns in anything.)

 

[SJ]

And University who weren't in the competiition long enough to score enough goals to match the year, scored their 1909th point during their last match of 1909.
There are some mathematical properties at work here (or maybe just the propensity of the brain to find patterns in anything.)

Both the 'year' and a club's game/goal/point tally are positive functions, that is they are never decreasing and have the property that for any moment in time there is only one output (year, game/goal/point).

In terms of these stats, the 'year' starts at greater than zero (say, 1897) but a club's game/goal/point tally always starts at zero.

Further, the 'year' increases at exactly one per year (duh) however a club's game/goal/point tally increases at multiple numbers of year.

Therefore if you were to graph both the year and a club's games played as a function of time, at some point both lines would intersect, at the point where they were both equal in number.

 

[RogersResults]

1958 Premiers, Collingwood didn't win a last quarter in their last 8 matches of the season. They didn't win a last quarter again until round 2 1959 - the Grand Final re-match against Melbourne which they lost.

The only team to lose every third quarter in a season was Nth Melbourne who lost all 19 in 1946. They however won 4 first quarters, 12 second quarters, 14 last quarters and 8 matches for the season.

 

[Wallaby]

We all know that the team that made the most efficient use of the ball when they had it in range of the goals won last year's Grand Final. What may not be known is that the club that did it is the historic leader in winning matches with fewer scoring shots.​

​

Number and percentage of matches played that were wins with fewer scoring shots 1897-2012.​

Ordered by percentage of matches played.​

​

Note: The 2012 Grand Final was a 'book-end' for the Swans - the first ever League match won with fewer scoring shots was the then Sth Melbourne's win over Carlton in Round 2 of the 1897 season - 6.4-40 vs. 5.6-36.​

Based on that, Rog, do you know how Richmond's 2012 season stacks up?

In 2012, Richmond played 5 games where they had more scoring shots than the opposition, and lost. They only played one game where they had fewer shots than the opponents, and won. So finished -4 on games won by the side with the fewest shots.
They also had 2 games where they had the same number of shots as their opponents - and lost both.

 

[RogersResults]

Based on that, Rog, do you know how Richmond's 2012 season stacks up?

In 2012, Richmond played 5 games where they had more scoring shots than the opposition, and lost. They only played one game where they had fewer shots than the opponents, and won. So finished -4 on games won by the side with the fewest shots.
They also had 2 games where they had the same number of shots as their opponents - and lost both.

Richmond's 5 losses with more scoring shots is their equal most in a season - 5 in 1943 (27.87% of games played compared to 22.73% in 2012).
2003-2011 Richmond lost a total of 4 games with more scoring shots.

In 1943 only 1 of Richmond's losses was with fewer scoring shots - the Semi-final vs. Essendon.
In 1943 the only match that Richmond played with equal scoring shots was their Grand Final win by 5 points over Essendon.

When I have more time I'll see which team has the record for most losses in a season with more scoring shots.

 

[iamcorky]

1. crows average percentage for '12 was 127
2. Biggest winning margin crows maintain was 139 against Richmond in '93.
3. Sanderson debuted for adelaide in '92
4. Thompson notched up 33 disposals to help get over Geelong in '07
5. Walker started playing for Norwood in the SANFL

 

[RogersResults]

Number and percentage of matches that were losses with more scoring shots 1897-2012​

(Ordered from lowest to highest.)​

​

Each Team's highest percentage (with number) of matches in a season that were losses with more scoring shots.​

​

Losses in 2012 with more scoring shots - odered from most to least.​

 

[RogersResults]

1. crows average percentage for '12 was 127
2. Biggest winning margin crows maintain was 139 against Richmond in '93.
3. Sanderson debuted for adelaide in '92
4. Thompson notched up 33 disposals to help get over Geelong in '07
5. Walker started playing for Norwood in the SANFL

Most mysterious - "Thompson notched up 33 disposals to help get over Geelong in '07"
R11 2007 - Thompson 33 disposals but Geelong 9.15-69 vs. Adelaide 9.8-62 ???

 

[Wallaby]

Number and percentage of matches that were losses with more scoring shots 1897-2012​

(Ordered from lowest to highest.)​

​

Each Team's highest percentage (with number) of matches in a season that were losses with more scoring shots.​

​

Losses in 2012 with more scoring shots - odered from most to least.​

Great stuff - now can we have the reverse - games won with fewer scoring shots? Fascinating reading. I'd also reckon it's a fair bet that Sydney 2012 was the first time a team has won 2 finals matches in one season with fewer scoring shots tham the opposition.