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Stats observations

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emuboy said:
One anomaly in the AFL Tables list of such players is Ray Poulter, a Richmond player of 170 games from 1946-1956 inclusive. Poulter did not play a single final for the Tigers during his 11 year tenure at the club, but while Richmond only qualified for the finals once during these seasons (1947) and Poulter did not play in these games, the Tigers were a competitive mid-ladder team and as a result Poulter ended up playing in more wins than losses (86–83–1) despite no finals.
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Poulter is certainly a somewhat strange case.

If I am not mistaken he has the fifth most goals by a player who played no finals:
  1. Keith Forbes with 475 goals
  2. Sel Murray with 461 goals
  3. Alec Albiston with 389 goals
  4. Ted Freyer with 372 goals
  5. Ray Poulter with 351 goals
If I have calculated correctly there are only six players who have kicked ten goals in a match at least once but played no finals:
  1. Sel Murray (best 10 goals)
  2. Alec Albiston (best 10 goals)
  3. Ted Freyer (best 12 goals)
  4. George Margitch (three times, best 12 goals)
  5. Noel O'Brien (best 10 goals; career ended very early by injury)
  6. Mark “Jacko” Jackson (best 10 goals)
Would it be possible to have a more comprehensive list of:
  1. most career goals by a player who played no finals
  2. most goals in a match by a player who played no finals
 
mianfei said:
If I have calculated correctly there are only six players who have kicked ten goals in a match at least once but played no finals:
  1. Sel Murray (best 10 goals)
  2. Alec Albiston (best 10 goals)
  3. Ted Freyer (best 12 goals)
  4. George Margitch (three times, best 12 goals)
  5. Noel O'Brien (best 10 goals; career ended very early by injury)
  6. Mark “Jacko” Jackson (best 10 goals)
Would it be possible to have a more comprehensive list of:
  1. most career goals by a player who played no finals
  2. most goals in a match by a player who played no finals
Click to expand...
Also:
Wally Culpitt [Hawthorn] (best 10 goals)
Harry Harker [Melbourne] (best 10 goals)
Jeff Hogg [Richmond/Fitzroy] (best 10 goals)
Alan Rait (Footscray) (best 10 goals; only played 19 VFL games, had long career in Tasmania)

So Freyer and Margitich with 12 should have the most goals in a match by a player who played no finals.
 
35Daicos said:
Also:
Wally Culpitt [Hawthorn] (best 10 goals)
Harry Harker [Melbourne] (best 10 goals)
Jeff Hogg [Richmond/Fitzroy] (best 10 goals)
Alan Rait (Footscray) (best 10 goals; only played 19 VFL games, had long career in Tasmania)

So Freyer and Margitich with 12 should have the most goals in a match by a player who played no finals.
Click to expand...
Some notes:
  1. I knew I’d forgotten Hogg almost immediately after I went to bed, but thanks for the other three! If my first five players with most career goals but no finals appearances be correct, then Hogg with 347 goals must be number six. It’s notable that among the players with most games for no finals, there is hardly a single out-and-out spearhead in the list. Hogg himself, it is reasonably well known, was understood as a natural full forward capable of kicking 100 goals in a season, but his coaches consistently had to (or chose to) use him elsewhere to fill massive gaps in the team.
  2. Margitich is unique for having kicked ten goals in a match more than once and played no finals. Interestingly, Margitich had a career in South Australia before he was moved by his employer to Melbourne, but in his three seasons for South Adelaide the club won only seven matches and drew one out of 51. In the 1929 SANFL season, Margitich kicked 74 goals although South Adelaide won just three games.
  3. Of current players, North Melbourne’s Nick Larkey is the only one who might conceivably beat Forbes’ 80+-year-old record of kicking 475 goals yet playing no finals. Even Larkey seems a longshot as he would need to kick 196 more goals to do it, which would take him five seasons if he keeps kicking 45 per season, and he would be well past thirty in 2030
    • Where does Larkey currently rank among players who have kicked the most goals without ever playing a final?
  4. Tony Lockett kicked 648 goals — 173 more than Forbes’ record — in 140 games before his first final
    1. Lockett held the record for most goals without playing a final from Round 1, 1990 to Round 24, 1991 inclusive
    2. Lockett kicked 13 goals in a match four weeks before he ever played a final in Round 21, 1991
  5. Bob Skelton kicked 395 goals before playing his only final, which would place him third or (if we count Lockett) fourth for most goals without playing a final
 
mianfei said:
Some notes:
  1. I knew I’d forgotten Hogg almost immediately after I went to bed, but thanks for the other three! If my first five players with most career goals but no finals appearances be correct, then Hogg with 347 goals must be number six. It’s notable that among the players with most games for no finals, there is hardly a single out-and-out spearhead in the list. Hogg himself, it is reasonably well known, was understood as a natural full forward capable of kicking 100 goals in a season, but his coaches consistently had to (or chose to) use him elsewhere to fill massive gaps in the team.
  2. Margitich is unique for having kicked ten goals in a match more than once and played no finals. Interestingly, Margitich had a career in South Australia before he was moved by his employer to Melbourne, but in his three seasons for South Adelaide the club won only seven matches and drew one out of 51. In the 1929 SANFL season, Margitich kicked 74 goals although South Adelaide won just three games.
  3. Of current players, North Melbourne’s Nick Larkey is the only one who might conceivably beat Forbes’ 80+-year-old record of kicking 475 goals yet playing no finals. Even Larkey seems a longshot as he would need to kick 196 more goals to do it, which would take him five seasons if he keeps kicking 45 per season, and he would be well past thirty in 2030
    • Where does Larkey currently rank among players who have kicked the most goals without ever playing a final?
  4. Tony Lockett kicked 648 goals — 173 more than Forbes’ record — in 140 games before his first final
    1. Lockett held the record for most goals without playing a final from Round 1, 1990 to Round 24, 1991 inclusive
    2. Lockett kicked 13 goals in a match four weeks before he ever played a final in Round 21, 1991
  5. Bob Skelton kicked 395 goals before playing his only final, which would place him third or (if we count Lockett) fourth for most goals without playing a final
Click to expand...
The Season Guide has this:
1762235217774.png
Yes, Hogg is in 6th spot.

So Larkey (278 goals) should be in 8th spot now.
 

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On 283 occasions a player has kicked 10 goals+ in a game:
1762256095596.png
114 players have kicked 10 goals+ in a game. 6 of them have done it with 2 clubs (Lance Franklin, Tony Lockett, Tony Modra, Richard Osborne, Brian Taylor and Lindsay White).

1762255946313.png
19 times the player has been on the losing side. On three of those occasions it's been when a player on the opposing (winning) side also kicked 10 goals+!:
1762259877448.png

1762259968371.png
 
Brilliant stuff.

One of my favourite trivia questions is in relation to who the last player was to kick 10+ goals in a final. Garry Lyon actually kicked his tenth goal half way through the third quarter. He was on track for 15+ but went goalless after that.

I remember the Essendon v NM match in 1999 fondly. Carey at one end, Lloyd at the other. Both players kicked remarkable goals from the boundary line in a high scoring opening quarter. It was 1 v 2 on the ladder. The loss to Essendon was NM's final loss that season.
 
mianfei said:
Hogg himself, it is reasonably well known, was understood as a natural full forward capable of kicking 100 goals in a season, but his coaches consistently had to (or chose to) use him elsewhere to fill massive gaps in the team.
Click to expand...

Jeff Hogg was Richmond's best Full-Back for most of his career. In his best season, he kicked 68 goals, and from Rd 16-19 he didn't kick a single goal - but he still got a Brownlow vote in Rd 18.
I suspect in RD 17, playing St Kilda, either Lockett or Loewe was killing us, so KB moved him to FB or CHB, he did OK, and they left him there for a month. He kicked at least one goal in every game in 1991, except those 4. In the 3 games after RD 19, he kicked 6,5, and 7 goals.

Definitely a player whose career was cruelled by playing for a terrible team.
 
X_box_X said:
Brilliant stuff.

One of my favourite trivia questions is in relation to who the last player was to kick 10+ goals in a final. Garry Lyon actually kicked his tenth goal half way through the third quarter. He was on track for 15+ but went goalless after that.

I remember the Essendon v NM match in 1999 fondly. Carey at one end, Lloyd at the other. Both players kicked remarkable goals from the boundary line in a high scoring opening quarter. It was 1 v 2 on the ladder. The loss to Essendon was NM's final loss that season.
Click to expand...
I was there as a neutral. One of the best games I've ever seen
 
Most recent season when each club made a straight-set finals exit (lost both finals games):

2025 - Adelaide
2024 - GWS
2023 - Melbourne, Port Adelaide
2021 - Brisbane
2018 - Hawthorn
2015 - Sydney
2014 - Fremantle, Geelong
2007 - West Coast
1999 - Western Bulldogs
1998 - St.Kilda
1996 - Carlton
1988 - Collingwood
1983 - North Melbourne (and Fitzroy)

Essendon (67 finals series), Richmond (42 finals series) and Gold Coast (1 finals series) have never made a straight-set exit.
 
Players who made their VFL/AFL debut on their birthday:

18y Jack Clarke ES
19y Colin Garland ME
Lachie Jones. PA
Jack Mihocek ES
Ezra Poyas RI
Gary Young ES
20y Blair Campbell RI/ME
Robert Copeland BL
John Ferguson ME/SY
Tom Garland RI
Ian McMullin CW/ES
John Morgan ME
Tim Walsh WB
21y Tony Francis CW/SK
Michael Gallagher CA/KA
Chris Hansen FI/WB
Vernon Lanigan SY
Bill Shelton HW
22y Jack Kirby ES
Lance Taylor SK
Reg Twite ES
23y Ron James WB
Jack Mulcahy FI
Frank Seymour CA/FI
24y Percy Purcell KA
Jim Tarbotton FI
Arthur Timms SY
25y Fred Ayers CA
26y George Anderson CW
Frank Bult WB
Ray Ellis GE
Darren Mead PA
28y Park Krygger WB
31y Jack Main SY
32y Charlie Forbes ES
 
Ezra Poyas, wowwweeee. That's a blast from the past.

JJ Liston Trophy winner from memory.

Also Ronnie James, apparently he would have been a star of the AFL if he wasn't tragically killed. Who knows what would have been there?
 
X_box_X said:
Ezra Poyas, wowwweeee. That's a blast from the past.

JJ Liston Trophy winner from memory.

Also Ronnie James, apparently he would have been a star of the AFL if he wasn't tragically killed. Who knows what would have been there?
Click to expand...
That will be a different Ron James (debuting on his 23rd birthday)!: https://afltables.com/afl/stats/alltime/bullldogs.html
1766187627100.png
1766187571074.png
The ill-fated Ronnie debuted at 16, and died at 19.
 

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In their first 29 seasons of senior football from 1925-1954, the Bulldogs did not win a premiership, finish as runner-up, top the ladder for a minor premiership, nor were they ever wooden spooner. This sequence of course broke when Footscray trounced Melbourne to win the 1954 VFL premiership, and after this they would finish last in 1959 and be runners up in 1961, although 100 years on a minor premiership continues to be a trophy that eludes the Dogs.

This 29 years of no premierships, runners-up placing, minor premierships but no last placed finished either appears to be the AFL record. Second place for this lack of any team trophies is a tie of 21 years, again for the Bulldogs who in between finishing last in 1982 and 2003 did not head the ladder nor play in any Grand Finals, and North Melbourne. After a good run in the 1990s, the Kangaroos would go from 2000 to 2020 with no premierships, no losing GF's, no premierships and no wooden spoons until they finished last in 2021.

The current AFL record is 11 years held by St Kilda, which since winning the 2014 wooden spoon has not finished last again since, but have no premierships, GF appearances nor minor premierships either.

One of the more extraordinary current cases is SANFL team the Central Districts Bulldogs, which from 2000-2011 had a golden era of 12 consecutive GF appearances for 9 premierships, the Dogs minor premiers in 8 of these seasons. However after narrowly losing the 2011 flag to the Eagles in the Grand Final Centrals have never managed to make a GF in 14 years since, have not headed the ladder yet have never fallen to last either. Perhaps most extraordinary is that from such a dominant era it took Centrals just 8 years to have the second longest drought of GF appearances, behind only South Adelaide. It also means that they are the only current team apart from the Adelaide Crows SANFL team (formed in 2013, no GF to date) to have never played a GF at the Adelaide Oval, with all of the Bulldogs GF appearances having taken place at the now closed Football Park.
 

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