Stats questions

worbod · Jan 15, 2013

Have managed to go as far back as the 1900s, making it through to the 1950s:
Dick Lee, Gordon Coventry, Phonse Kyne.

RedmanWasHere · Jan 15, 2013

worbod said:
Have managed to go as far back as the 1900s, making it through to the 1950s:
Dick Lee, Gordon Coventry, Phonse Kyne.

Fair dinkum unbelievable Bobby I mean Worbod.

Can we somehow link 1897 to 2012?

Ron The Bear · Jan 16, 2013

At the risk of being called a party pooper I've compiled the complete list of 111 trios whose careers spanned six decades. It involved creating a table containing 68 million records (try doing that on a tablet Microsoft, you desktop-killing pricks).

Give yourself a pat on the back if you had the one starting with Eddie Goodger.

Will have a go at the other outstanding questions when I get a chance.

FootyMaths · Jan 16, 2013

O

Ron The Bear said:
At the risk of being called a party pooper I've compiled the complete list of 111 trios whose careers spanned six decades. It involved creating a table containing 68 million records (try doing that on a tablet Microsoft, you desktop-killing pricks).

[removed]
Give yourself a pat on the back if you had the one starting with Eddie Goodger.

Will have a go at the other outstanding questions when I get a chance.

OUTSTANDING!
And you got Daniel Harris in there which means both the Suns and Giants (Luke Power) get a gig.

BIG THANKS to Ron!

FootyMaths · Jan 16, 2013

Would I be right in saying Adelaide and West Coast miss out?
I see Motlop gets Port involved, and Tarrant gets Freo.

lgarth80 · Jan 16, 2013

I got Jackson-Pool-Albiston. Happy with that.
I also got Dean-Wood-Salmon.
From a quick browse it appears the 6 are unique only to that link

lgarth80 · Jan 16, 2013

Tuck-Jarman-Doughty if they get to 2020!
Hawkins-Mcguinness-Mcleod/Edwards does a 5. Starting in 1991 with limited players coming back hurts.

Glendinning-Mckenna obviously not strong on North side to 50s

lgarth80 · Jan 16, 2013

If a player starting with D Fletcher plays until 2030 a 7 is possible.

Joe Daniher / Dyson Heppell?

worbod · Jan 16, 2013

I don't think a seven decade stretch is possible unless all three players have careers spanning across three separate decades.

worbod · Jan 18, 2013

Has there ever been a player with a career of at least 50 games who made his debut and played his final game against the same opponent, and also at the same venue?

worbod · Jan 18, 2013

Wallaby said:
I'd be very surprised if Kevin Bartlett wasn't on that list. That's only 12 possessions per game! That was a decent first quarter for KB! (All kicks, of course).

I appreciate that the complete stats aren't available - but considering he had nearly 4700 possessions in the 223 games that we have reliable statistics for (1974 on), that means he would have had to have just over 300 possessions total in the other 180 games he played - as first rover in a multiple premiership team. I don't know if he would have kept his spot averaging 1.5 touches per game. We do know he kicked 215 goals in those 180 games.

And on KB - where we have the decent stats, it shows he averaged 18.5 kicks, to 2.6 handballs. Is that the worst ratio (of those who played a reasonable number of games - say 100+)?

In the "Footy Facts '86-87" publication as well as the May 13, 1992 edition of Inside Football, these stats were published about KB's entire career:

1965 183 kicks, 17 marks, 21 handballs
1966 222 kicks, 23 marks, 9 handballs
1967 415 kicks, 42 marks, 32 handballs
1968 481 kicks, 48 marks, 32 handballs
1969 547 kicks, 79 marks, 47 handballs
1970 569 kicks, 79 marks, 30 handballs
1971 512 kicks, 59 marks, 41 handballs
1972 441 kicks, 48 marks, 21 handballs
1973 633 kicks, 43 marks, 38 handballs

Footy Facts seem to have had these stats compiled by a chap named Ray Young, of whom I don't know anything. Hope this data helps in some way, but before you get too excited, the remainder of the stats which were published differ greatly from those published on *Paul's* website, so I'm not sure how you will deal with that matter, but I will print all the differences below.

1974 605 kicks, 44 handballs
1975 488 kicks, 40 marks, 75 handballs
1976 512 kicks, 72 marks, 63 handballs
1977 585 kicks, 111 marks, 80 handballs
1978 474 kicks, 83 marks, 70 handballs
1979 no differences
1980 413 kicks (variation of only 2)
1981 312 kicks (variation of only 1)
1982 and 1983 have no differences

Ron The Bear · Jan 18, 2013

worbod said:
1966 222 kicks, 23 marks, 9 handballs

Amazing. Easy to see why they called him 'Hungry'.

Wallaby · Jan 18, 2013

Well, Kb himself makes the joke - 'What a career! 5 premierships, 5 B&Fs, 5 handballs - and 3 of those were at training'.

Rourke · Jan 21, 2013

worbod said:
Footy Facts seem to have had these stats compiled by a chap named Ray Young, of whom I don't know anything. Hope this data helps in some way, but before you get too excited, the remainder of the stats which were published differ greatly from those published on *Paul's* website

Ray Young was one of the founders of APB Sports, which were the de facto VFL statisticians through that time. The entire operation was run from their kitchen table without the help of these newfangled computers that we have, so it's always possible to find an arithmetic error.

Ron The Bear · Jan 21, 2013

worbod said:
What are some of the highest possession counts players have accrued in a game without kicking a goal?

Disposals|Kicks|Handballs|Player|Club|Year|Round|Opponent
\53|31|22|Ablett junior, Gary|GC|2012|10|Co
\51|21|30|Thompson, Scott|Ad|2011|22|GC
\48|35|13|Wells, Greg T.|Me|1980|13|Fi
\48|22|26|Shaw, Tony|Co|1984|7|Ge
\47|24|23|Griffen, Ryan|WB|2012|21|Sy
\46|33|13|Wiley, Robert|Ri|1980|8|Ca
\46|15|31|Boyd, Matthew|WB|2012|22|Ge
\45|31|14|Wilson, Garry|Fi|1978|17|Co
\45|30|15|Shaw, Tony|Co|1985|21|WB
\45|20|25|Mainwaring, Chris|WC|1990|16|WB
\45|30|15|Atkins, Simon|WB|1992|17|St
\45|17|28|Williams, Greg|Ca|1994|22|WC
\45|23|22|West, Scott|WB|2006|20|Ad
\45|15|30|Priddis, Matt|WC|2008|14|Ha
\45|28|17|Boyd, Matthew|WB|2011|5|Fr

Ron The Bear · Jan 21, 2013

arkie said:
Where can I get the average DreamTeam points scored against each team in 2012? Or the total DT points then I can work out the averages on my own!

Club|Points Against
\Ad|1483.2
\Br|1545.3
\Ca|1472.6
\Co|1544.8
\Es|1559.0
\Fr|1504.2
\Ge|1475.3
\GC|1675.5
\GWS|1685.2
\Ha|1439.1
\Me|1630.3
\NM|1501.8
\PA|1553.8
\Ri|1462.1
\St|1492.0
\Sy|1513.0
\WC|1425.8
\WB|1609.9

Ron The Bear · Jan 21, 2013

tiger dream said:
So the Saints used 74 players in their 1st 2 seasons.Have St.Kilda had the most leauge players over the years ?.

I've got the number for 1897-98 as 77.

Club|Players|Seasons|Average
\Ad|191|22|8.68
\Br|260|26|10.00
\Ca|1143|116|9.85
\Co|1099|116|9.47
\Es|1104|114|9.68
\Fr|168|18|9.33
\Ge|1039|113|9.19
\GC|54|2|27.00
\GWS|46|1|46.00
\Ha|879|88|9.99
\Me|1288|112|11.50
\NM|972|88|11.05
\PA|138|16|8.63
\Ri|1113|105|10.60
\St|1551|114|13.61
\Sy|1377|115|11.97
\WC|205|26|7.88
\WB|967|88|10.99
\Fi|1156|100|11.56
\Un|112|7|16.00

RedmanWasHere said:
What's the biggest height difference between guernsey number swaps?

E.g. John Butcher 2010-2012 (197cm) and Jake Neade 2013- (170cm) with Port Adelaide's No. 32.

Will revisit this tonight.

RedmanWasHere · Jan 21, 2013

R.e. 3 players, we can connect another lot.

From 1969-2009:

Barry Round (1969-1985.)
Mark Bayes (1985-1998.)
Jared Crouch (1998-2009.)

Ron The Bear · Jan 21, 2013

RedmanWasHere said:
R.e. 3 players, we can connect another lot.

From 1969-2009:

Barry Round (1969-1985.)
Mark Bayes (1985-1998.)
Jared Crouch (1998-2009.)

I didn't include this since their careers only spanned five discrete decades (60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s). For six decades, the minimum span from first year to last must be 42 seasons, inclusive. You had me concerned for a minute.

arkie · Jan 21, 2013

Ron The Bear said:
Club|Points Against
\Ad|1483.2
\Br|1545.3
\Ca|1472.6
\Co|1544.8
\Es|1559.0
\Fr|1504.2
\Ge|1475.3
\GC|1675.5
\GWS|1685.2
\Ha|1439.1
\Me|1630.3
\NM|1501.8
\PA|1553.8
\Ri|1462.1
\St|1492.0
\Sy|1513.0
\WC|1425.8
\WB|1609.9

Where did you get these numbers from? I used Pro-Stats and have different figures for 2012 average DT points against (opponent averages).

Ron The Bear · Jan 21, 2013

arkie said:
Where did you get these numbers from? I used Pro-Stats and have different figures for 2012 average DT points against (opponent averages).

My database. Occasionally in the 24 hours or so after a match, the player stats are amended by a tackle here, a free kick there, and the "official" numbers differ very slightly from the ones I have, which are scooped in as soon as they're posted after the final game of the round (from finalsiren.com). Usually I go through at the end of the season and correct my figures, but it's a painful process and I haven't fixed 2012 yet. The Pro-Stats numbers are more likely to be correct than mine.

Ron The Bear · Jan 21, 2013

RedmanWasHere said:
What's the biggest height difference between guernsey number swaps?

E.g. John Butcher 2010-2012 (197cm) and Jake Neade 2013- (170cm) with Port Adelaide's No. 32.

This list shouldn't be taken as definitive, but according to the data I have:

Diff (cm)|Player 1|Height|Player 2|Height|Club|Guernsey|Seasons
\34|Alvey, Mark|177|Street, Peter|211|WB|31|2003-2004
\32|Hurley, Alf|161|Clay, Bert|193|Fi|31|1939-1940
\31|Burton, Matthew|210|Wira, Brad|179|Fr|24|1999-2000
\30|Jenkins, Jimmy|193|Bence, Roy|163|St|12|1924-1925
\30|Mills, Len|203|Hindson, Clarrie|173|St|29|1929-1930
\29|Russell, Bert|160|Hando, Arthur|189|Sy|17|1921-1922
\29|Williams, Lyall|174|Mills, Len|203|Ha|16|1929-1930
\29|Canning, Warren|197|Larkins, Andy|168|Ge|31|1949-1950
\29|Heard, Bob|202|Bond, K. Shane|173|Co|15|1975-1976
\29|Kenna, Stephen|170|O'Hailpin, Setanta|199|Ca|17|2004-2005
\29|Deluca, Fabian|203|Thompson, Wade|174|PA|37|2008-2009

RedmanWasHere · Jan 21, 2013

Ron The Bear said:
This list shouldn't be taken as definitive, but according to the data I have:

Diff (cm)|Player 1|Height|Player 2|Height|Club|Guernsey|Seasons
\34|Alvey, Mark|177|Street, Peter|211|WB|31|2003-2004
\32|Hurley, Alf|161|Clay, Bert|193|Fi|31|1939-1940
\31|Burton, Matthew|210|Wira, Brad|179|Fr|24|1999-2000
\30|Jenkins, Jimmy|193|Bence, Roy|163|St|12|1924-1925
\30|Mills, Len|203|Hindson, Clarrie|173|St|29|1929-1930
\29|Russell, Bert|160|Hando, Arthur|189|Sy|17|1921-1922
\29|Williams, Lyall|174|Mills, Len|203|Ha|16|1929-1930
\29|Canning, Warren|197|Larkins, Andy|168|Ge|31|1949-1950
\29|Heard, Bob|202|Bond, K. Shane|173|Co|15|1975-1976
\29|Kenna, Stephen|170|O'Hailpin, Setanta|199|Ca|17|2004-2005
\29|Deluca, Fabian|203|Thompson, Wade|174|PA|37|2008-2009

You're outdoing yourself Ron.

A new DP = a new level set.

Man there were some shorties.

kosifantutti · Jan 22, 2013

Daniel Archer has finished his AFL career playing in one game which was a draw Has any other player ever done this? Has any player had a multi game career that were all draws?

Edit: Should have done the search first

35Daicos said:
This is taken from AFL Tables - All players ranked by win/loss records file and shows those with 1 game - 1 draw (50.00%), and should be all there is (assuming I've looked at it correctly!):-

5287. Ray Davies (Fitzroy 1954)
5288. Ted Wellington (North Melb. 1943)
5289. George Kanngieser (Collingwood 1935)
5290. Eric Crompton (Footscray 1935)
5291. Colin Dufty (Collingwood 1914)
5292. Arthur Harrison (Carlton 1914)
5293. Tom Hanson (Carlton 1911)
5294. Sid O'Neill (Fitzroy 1909)
5295. Ron Larking (University 1909)
5296. Ted Flynn (Essendon 1903)
5297. Daniel Archer (St. Kilda 2011)
5298. Byron Sumner (Sydney 2011)
5299. Garry Cameron (North Melb. 1967)

There have been 2 games (indicated in bold) where players on opposing sides played in a draw in their one and only game. Archer of St. Kilda is still on the Saints list of course.

SJ · Jan 23, 2013

Tom Hawkins is now listed as Tom J Hawkins on the AFL website. Was there another Tom Hawkins that played in the VFL/AFL?

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