Stats questions

[RogersResults]

Thanks for the answers to my quustions re goalkickers/brownlow votes, much appreciated.

Another one:

With the outside chance that Melbourne VS GWS in RD13 could be a match between 2 winless sides (considering Melbourne's horror run of matches coming up), what is the latest round in a season there has been a match between sides yet to win a game?

Geelong and Nth Melbourne met in round 11, 1972 each on 0 wins and 10 losses. Geelong won by 9 points.

Geelong managed 6 more wins for the season. (One of the greatest turn-rounds in the 2nd half of a season.) North Melbourne won their only match for the year in round 17.

 

[red+black]

the norm smith started in 1979. Was there a recognised award before this? maybe a newspaper or similar.

I am firmly in favour of retrospective Norm Smith medals where the game was televised. It was done for the Brownlow Medal and I would have hoped the AFL would have done the same for the 1961 and 1965-1978 Grand Finals.

 

[RogersResults]

I am firmly in favour of retrospective Norm Smith medals where the game was televised. It was done for the Brownlow Medal and I would have hoped the AFL would have done the same for the 1961 and 1965-1978 Grand Finals.

The retrospective Brownlow medals were awarded on the votes made at the time, eliminating the count-back to separate those on equal votes.

If you were going to award retrospective best-on-ground in the Grand Final awards, would not a consensus from the time in published match reports be more valid than modern 'experts' trying to judge from the limited view on an old video-tape? Plus all grand finals could be covered.

Norm Smith himself would be eligible.

However, The Argus report of the 1939 GF says, "Every man in Melbourne's team was a good player", although Smith was one signaled out for his "unselfish and clever handball and quick passing (that) gave many goals to Melbourne".

Further, The Age reports that Melbourne's Jack Mueller was awarded the 'Tom Coles' trophy for best player in the final series. Should we give a retrospective 'Norm Smith' to Jack for 1939?

There are many lost and forgotten trophies awarded over the years.

 

[35Daicos]

I am firmly in favour of retrospective Norm Smith medals where the game was televised. It was done for the Brownlow Medal and I would have hoped the AFL would have done the same for the 1961 and 1965-1978 Grand Finals.

From the AFL Record Season Guide:-
GRAND FINAL BEST ON GROUND: 1965-78

In 2001, the AFL Record named the players who were best on ground in the Grand Finals between 1965 and 1978. A panel of football and media experts was selected for each year and asked to judge the best on ground. Because there is little or no vision of Grand Finals before 1965, that was deemed to be the cut-off point. The selections were:

1965 Ted Fordham (Essendon)
1966 Ian Cooper (St Kilda)
1967 Bill Goggin (Geelong)
1968 Garry Crane (Carlton)
1969 Michael Green (Richmond)
1970 David McKay (Carlton)
1971 Kelvin Moore (Hawthorn)
1972 Robert Walls (Carlton)
1973 Kevin Bartlett (Richmond)
1974 Kevin Sheedy (Richmond)
1975 Brent Crosswell (North Melb)
1976 John Hendrie (Hawthorn)
1977 Len Thompson (Collingwood)
1977* Arnold Briedis (North Melb)
1978 Robert DiPierdomenico (Hawthorn)

*replay

The 2001 Grand Final Record covers the story in detail. It's available to view or download here:- http://digital.slv.vic.gov.au/R/?func=collections&collection_id=1081

 

[35Daicos]

the norm smith started in 1979. Was there a recognised award before this? maybe a newspaper or similar.

I'm sure there was also a recognised award before the brownlow as well but can't figure out what it was called? (Champion of the Land?)

I don't know much about this site:- http://www.australianrulesfootball.com.au/pages/australianfootballleague

but it covers plenty of awards, including Champion of the Colony. This award gets a reasonable mention in the AFL Record Season Guide and I'm sure Wikipedia and other sources would cover it too.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Here's a rather intensive one but it wouldn't surprise me at all if someone had it up their sleeves:

Is there a comprehensive list of premiership players who had previously played games for another VFL/AFL club? I'd like to take a look at who they are and which premiership sides didn't have any such players. I know there hasn't been one for a while.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Here's a rather intensive one but it wouldn't surprise me at all if someone had it up their sleeves:

Is there a comprehensive list of premiership players who had previously played games for another VFL/AFL club? I'd like to take a look at who they are and which premiership sides didn't have any such players. I know there hasn't been one for a while.

Complete list, with GF match # for club, GF match # for career, previous club(s) and games played.

Year Cb Player                Ma# Ma# Clubs            Career  Gms Cb  Ma
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1899 Fi Deas, Jack             15  17 Sy,Fi,Es       1897-1902  38 Sy   2
1900 Me Gardner, Corrie        16  28 Es,Me          1898-1905  60 Es  12
        Parkin, Harry          16  18 Ge,Me          1899-1906  87 Ge   2
        Purse, Jack            18  19 St,Me          1898-1908 110 St   1
1902 Co Incoll, Jack           10  14 Sy,Co          1899-1906  72 Sy   4
        Leach, Arthur          83  87 Es,Co          1897-1908 177 Es   4
        Lockwood, George       15  55 Ge,Co          1899-1904  69 Ge  40
        Lockwood, Teddy        17  62 Ge,Co          1899-1905  98 Ge  45
1903 Co Drohan, Eddie          17  92 Fi,Co          1898-1908 171 Fi  75
        Incoll, Jack           26  30 Sy,Co          1899-1906  72 Sy   4
        Leach, Arthur         101 105 Es,Co          1897-1908 177 Es   4
        Lockwood, George       26  66 Ge,Co          1899-1904  69 Ge  40
        Lockwood, Teddy        36  81 Ge,Co          1899-1905  98 Ge  45
1904 Fi McDonough, Jack        14  35 Sy,Fi          1902-1905  50 Sy  21
1905 Fi McDonough, Jack        29  50 Sy,Fi          1902-1905  50 Sy  21
1906 Ca Elliott, Fred         109 121 Me,Ca          1899-1911 209 Me  12
        Flynn, Jim             61 133 Ge,Ca          1897-1910 149 Ge  72
        Grace, Mick            73 138 Fi,Ca,St       1897-1908 167 Fi  65
        Kennedy, Ted           53  96 Es,Ca          1901-1909 149 Es  43
1907 Ca Flynn, Jim             73 145 Ge,Ca          1897-1910 149 Ge  72
        Grace, Mick            86 151 Fi,Ca,St       1897-1908 167 Fi  65
        Harris, Dick L.        22  25 Es,Ca,St       1905-1913  89 Es   3
        Kelly, Harvey          11  20 Sy,Ca,Sy       1902-1914  92 Sy   9
        Kennedy, Ted           72 115 Es,Ca          1901-1909 149 Es  43
1908 Ca Elliott, Fred         141 153 Me,Ca          1899-1911 209 Me  12
        Flynn, Jim             76 148 Ge,Ca          1897-1910 149 Ge  72
        Gardiner, Vin          23  25 Me,Ca          1905-1917 159 Me   2
        Kelly, Harvey          25  34 Sy,Ca,Sy       1902-1914  92 Sy   9
        Kennedy, Ted           90 133 Es,Ca          1901-1909 149 Es  43
1909 Sy Drane, Horrie          18  56 Me,Sy          1902-1909  56 Me  38
        Wade, Ted              59  60 Me,Sy          1904-1910  61 Me   1
1910 Co Ryan, Dave             71  73 Ge,Co          1906-1912 101 Ge   2
1911 Es Hazel, Ern             11  18 St,Me,Es       1909-1912  19 St   3
                                                                   Me   4
        McLeod, George         33  54 St,Es          1897-1913  77 St  21
        Ogden, Percy           39  43 Co,Es          1905-1921 165 Co   4
        Shea, Paddy            72  85 Fi,Es          1904-1918 155 Fi  13
1912 Es Belcher, Alan         118 122 Co,Es          1904-1919 180 Co   4
        Caine, Frank           12  92 Ca,Es          1905-1914 102 Ca  80
        Kirkwood, Fred         17  35 Fi,Es          1910-1914  60 Fi  18
        Martin, Jim            89  95 Ca,Es,Fi       1902-1914 128 Ca   6
        McLeod, George         51  72 St,Es          1897-1913  77 St  21
        Ogden, Percy           56  60 Co,Es          1905-1921 165 Co   4
        Shea, Paddy            87 100 Fi,Es          1904-1918 155 Fi  13
1913 Fi Buist, Teddy           32  44 Sy,Fi          1906-1916  71 Sy  12
        Harrison, Artie C.     10  11 Ri,Fi          1911-1914  20 Ri   1
        Heaney, Tom            17  73 Ri,Fi          1908-1921 154 Ri  56
        Martin, Jim             9 110 Ca,Es,Fi       1902-1914 128 Ca   6
                                                                   Es  95
        Norris, Charlie        40  58 Co,Fi          1910-1918 124 Co  18
        Wells, Charlie         11  16 Ri,Fi          1912-1914  20 Ri   5
1914 Ca Brown, Ted V.          20  24 St,Ca          1911-1920  99 St   4
        Dick, Billy            65 118 Fi,Ca          1908-1918 153 Fi  53
        Lowe, Jack             13  38 Co,Ca          1912-1914  38 Co  25
1915 Ca Brown, Ted V.          37  41 St,Ca          1911-1920  99 St   4
        Gardiner, Vin         127 129 Me,Ca          1905-1917 159 Me   2
1916 Fi Buist, Teddy           59  71 Sy,Fi          1906-1916  71 Sy  12
        Heaney, Tom            57 113 Ri,Fi          1908-1921 154 Ri  56
        McDonald, Ted          21  23 Es,Fi          1912-1919  48 Es   2
        Norris, Charlie        84 102 Co,Fi          1910-1918 124 Co  18
1917 Co Curtis, Harry          45  47 Ca,Co          1913-1923 124 Ca   2
        Green Senior, Jack W. 104 106 Ge,Co          1908-1918 110 Ge   2
        Lumsden, Ernie         27  61 Co,Es,Co       1910-1920 112 Es  34
1918 Sy Daly, Bill             45  47 Me,Sy          1913-1919  61 Me   2
        O'Donoghue, Alan       45  54 Ri,Sy          1912-1918  54 Ri   9
1919 Co Curtis, Harry          71  73 Ca,Co          1913-1923 124 Ca   2
        Lumsden, Ernie         60  94 Co,Es,Co       1910-1920 112 Es  34
1920 Ri Hislop, Max            59  69 Co,Me,Ri       1914-1927 138 Co   9
                                                                   Me   1
        Minogue, Dan           17 102 Co,Ri,Ha       1911-1926 180 Co  85
1921 Ri Hislop, Max            77  87 Co,Me,Ri       1914-1927 138 Co   9
                                                                   Me   1
        Minogue, Dan           36 121 Co,Ri,Ha       1911-1926 180 Co  85
        Turnbull, Norm         12  43 St,Ri          1914-1923  65 St  31
1923 Es Barker senior, Syd     43  45 Ri,Es,NM       1908-1927  68 Ri   2
        McCarthy, Justin       30  33 Ca,Es          1913-1926  59 Ca   3
1924 Es Barker senior, Syd     14  26 Ri,Es,NM       1908-1927  68 Ri   2
        Kittle, Les             1   1 Ca,Es          1919-1924   6 Ca   5
        Marchesi, Val           1   8 Ge,Es          1922-1924  23 Ge  15
        McCarthy, Justin       12  12 Ca,Es          1919-1926  59 Ca   2
1925 Ge Fitzmaurice, Tom       15 100 Es,Ge,NM       1918-1935 188 Es  85
1926 Me Moyes, Harry           31  92 St,Me          1915-1927 106 St  61
        Tymms, Bill            15  23 St,Me          1922-1933  99 St   8
1927 Co Rumney, Harold         17  32 Ca,Co          1925-1937 186 Ca  15
1928 Co Rumney, Harold         34  49 Ca,Co          1925-1937 186 Ca  15
1929 Co Rumney, Harold         54  69 Ca,Co          1925-1937 186 Ca  15
1930 Co Aldag, Bill             3   5 WB,Co          1928-1931  11 WB   2
        Rumney, Harold         74  89 Ca,Co          1925-1937 186 Ca  15
1931 Ge Baker, Ted             90 124 Ca,Co,Ge,Co,WB 1920-1934 142 Ca   1
                                                                   Co  33
1932 Ri Twyford, Jack          31  33 Sy,Ri,Co       1929-1934  41 Sy   2
1933 Sy Bisset, Jack           37  75 Ri,Sy          1928-1936 128 Ri  38
        Kelleher, Dinny         7  61 Ca,Sy          1927-1936 113 Ca  54
1934 Ri Edmonds, Horrie        12  91 Co,Ri,WB       1929-1937 110 Co  79
1935 Co Riley, Lou             23  43 Me,Co          1932-1938  64 Me  20
        Rumney, Harold        158 173 Ca,Co          1925-1937 186 Ca  15
1936 Co Crowe, Jim             13  96 Ca,Co          1929-1937 104 Ca  83
        Riley, Lou             29  49 Me,Co          1932-1938  64 Me  20
1937 Ge Dougherty, George      28  45 Ca,Ge,WB,Ge,Sy 1934-1945 173 Ca  17
1938 Ca Carney, Jack           42 121 Ge,Ca          1930-1941 163 Ge  79
        Diggins, Brighton      16  81 Sy,Ca          1932-1940  96 Sy  65
        Francis, Jim           85 146 Ha,Ca          1929-1943 223 Ha  61
        Wrout, Jack            29  82 NM,Ca          1931-1944 183 NM  53
1939 Me Roberts, Frank         62  89 St,Me          1933-1941 113 St  27
1940 Me Roberts, Frank         78 105 St,Me          1933-1941 113 St  27
1942 Es Abbott, Gordon         33  83 Ge,Es          1936-1947 133 Ge  50
        Flanagan, Bob          29  78 WB,Es          1936-1945  91 WB  49
        Hird senior, Allan     45  59 Ha,Es,St       1938-1947 154 Ha  14
1944 Fi Dawson, Stan           32  53 Co,Fi          1938-1946  78 Co  21
        Denning, Clen         104 122 Ca,Fi          1935-1947 177 Ca  18
        Hearn, Maurie         128 136 Sy,Fi          1932-1944 136 Sy   8
        Hillard, Norm          76 108 Ha,Fi          1933-1946 127 Ha  32
        Stackpole, Keith       84 118 Co,Fi          1935-1944 118 Co  34
        Symons, Jack S.         9 120 Ri,Fi          1934-1946 147 Ri 111
1946 Es Abbott, Gordon         78 128 Ge,Es          1936-1947 133 Ge  50
1948 Me Deans, Billy          119 120 Sy,Me          1941-1950 152 Sy   1
1950 Es Collins, Jack Cecil    13  44 Fi,Es          1945-1950  44 Fi  31
1951 Ge Goninon, George        32  41 Es,Ge          1948-1954  87 Es   9
1952 Ge Goninon, George        49  58 Es,Ge          1948-1954  87 Es   9
1954 WB Stevens, Harvey        37  91 Co,WB          1948-1957 126 Co  54
1958 Co Sullivan, Harry        53  84 Ca,Co          1950-1960 109 Ca  31
1968 Ca McLean, Peter          48  76 Me,Ca          1964-1968  76 Me  28
1971 Ha Bremner, Ian           75  76 Co,Ha          1966-1976 159 Co   1
1973 Ri McGhie, Robert         17  54 WB,Ri,WB,Sy    1969-1981 146 WB  37
        Rae, Stephen            8  63 St,Ri          1969-1974  75 St  55
        Sproule, Paul          46 106 Es,Ri          1968-1975 146 Es  60
        Stewart, Ian           66 193 St,Ri          1963-1975 205 St 127
        Walsh, Wayne           37 100 Ri,Sy,Ri       1968-1978 151 Sy  63
1974 Ri Andrews, Gareth        13 149 Ge,Ri          1965-1975 167 Ge 136
        McGhie, Robert         40  77 WB,Ri,WB,Sy    1969-1981 146 WB  37
        Sproule, Paul          67 127 Es,Ri          1968-1975 146 Es  60
        Thorpe, David           9 160 WB,Ri          1965-1976 178 WB 151
        Walsh, Wayne           60 123 Ri,Sy,Ri       1968-1978 151 Sy  63
1975 NM Crosswell, Brent       18 116 Ca,NM,Me       1968-1982 222 Ca  98
        Davis, Barry           71 289 Es,NM          1961-1975 289 Es 218
        Rantall, John          70 244 Sy,NM,Sy,Fi    1963-1980 336 Sy 174
        Wade, Doug             59 267 Ge,NM          1961-1975 267 Ge 208
1976 Ha Bremner, Ian          158 159 Co,Ha          1966-1976 159 Co   1
1977 NM Alves, Stan            16 242 Me,NM          1965-1979 266 Me 226
        Baker, Phil            79  88 NM,Ge,NM       1971-1979 106 Ge   9
        Cassin, John H.        27  78 Es,NM,Fi       1971-1982 134 Es  51
        Crosswell, Brent       55 153 Ca,NM,Me       1968-1982 222 Ca  98
        Keenan, Peter          34 135 Me,NM,Es,Me    1970-1982 213 Me 101
        Nettlefold, Bill       22  37 Ri,NM,Me       1974-1982 100 Ri  15
1978 Ha Goss, Norm J.          23 144 Sy,Ha          1972-1982 202 Sy 121
1980 Ri Malthouse, Mick        75 128 St,Ri          1972-1983 174 St  53
        Rowlings, Barry        35 117 Ha,Ri          1975-1986 234 Ha  82
        Welsh, Peter James      7  86 Ha,Ri          1973-1984 125 Ha  79
1981 Ca Bortolotto, Mario      11  25 Ge,Ca          1979-1983  44 Ge  14
        Perovic, Val           37 114 St,Ca          1973-1985 174 St  77
        Wells, Greg T.         32 256 Me,Ca          1969-1982 267 Me 224
1982 Ca Bortolotto, Mario      22  36 Ge,Ca          1979-1983  44 Ge  14
        Perovic, Val           61 138 St,Ca          1973-1985 174 St  77
1983 Ha Byrne, Michael         34  90 Me,Ha,Sy       1977-1989 167 Me  56
        Greene, Russell        85 205 St,Ha          1974-1988 304 St 120
1984 Es Daniher, Terry        147 166 Sy,Es          1976-1992 313 Sy  19
1985 Es Daniher, Terry        164 183 Sy,Es          1976-1992 313 Sy  19
        Elshaug, Tony          38 104 Me,Es,Co       1979-1988 137 Me  66
        Wood, Bryan            35 244 Ri,Es          1972-1986 253 Ri 209
1986 Ha Greene, Russell       148 268 St,Ha          1974-1988 304 St 120
1987 Ca Madden, Justin         99 144 Es,Ca          1980-1996 332 Es  45
        Rhys-Jones, David      56 132 Sy,Ca          1980-1992 182 Sy  76
1988 Ha Greene, Russell       184 304 St,Ha          1974-1988 304 St 120
1990 Co Barwick, Doug          62 138 Fi,Co          1984-1991 147 Fi  76
        Morwood, Shane        145 162 Sy,Co          1981-1993 212 Sy  17
1992 WC Harding, Paul          16  89 Ha,St,WC       1987-1994 116 Ha  11
                                                                   St  62
        Wilson, Peter          55 109 Ri,WC          1987-1995 171 Ri  54
1993 Es Denham, Sean           32  76 Ge,Es          1987-2000 186 Ge  44
1994 WC Wilson, Peter         101 155 Ri,WC          1987-1995 171 Ri  54
1995 Ca Clape, Matt            23  52 WC,Ca          1992-1998  87 WC  29
        Hogg, Matthew          64 123 WB,Ca          1988-1999 173 WB  59
        Madden, Justin        266 311 Es,Ca          1980-1996 332 Es  45
        Manton, Glenn          12  33 Es,Ca          1992-2003 178 Es  21
        Pearce, Brad           25  27 Br,Ca          1993-1999  79 Br   2
        Rice, Dean             19 135 St,Ca          1987-2001 234 St 116
        Spalding, Earl         86 195 Me,Ca          1987-1997 211 Me 109
        Williams, Greg         78 219 Ge,Sy,Ca       1984-1997 250 Ge  34
                                                                   Sy 107
1996 NM Bell, Peter            23  25 Fr,NM,Fr       1995-2008 286 Fr   2
        Blakey, John           90 225 Fi,NM          1985-2002 359 Fi 135
        Laidley, Dean          88 140 WC,NM          1987-1997 151 WC  52
        Roberts, Mark          87 164 Sy,Br,NM       1985-1999 202 Sy  18
                                                                   Br  59
        Scott, Robert          49 181 Ge,NM          1986-2000 245 Ge 132
1997 Ad Bond, Troy             38  74 Ca,Ad          1994-1999  94 Ca  36
        Caven, Peter           42  99 Fi,Sy,Ad       1991-2000 139 Fi  39
                                                                   Sy  18
        Connell, Matthew       52  55 WC,Ad          1993-2000  99 WC   3
        Ellen, Shane           27  38 WB,Ad          1993-2000  65 WB  11
        James, Brett           17  59 Co,Ad          1994-2000 118 Co  42
        Jarman, Darren         43 152 Ha,Ad          1991-2001 230 Ha 109
        Koster, Kym            33  71 WB,Ad          1994-2000 133 WB  38
        Robran, Matthew        60  67 Ha,Ad          1991-2001 137 Ha   7
        Sampson, Clay          10  23 Me,Ad,Ri       1995-2000  64 Me  13
1998 Ad Caven, Peter           66 123 Fi,Sy,Ad       1991-2000 139 Fi  39
                                                                   Sy  18
        Connell, Matthew       73  76 WC,Ad          1993-2000  99 WC   3
        Ellen, Shane           44  55 WB,Ad          1993-2000  65 WB  11
        James, Brett           40  82 Co,Ad          1994-2000 118 Co  42
        Jarman, Darren         66 175 Ha,Ad          1991-2001 230 Ha 109
        Koster, Kym            59  97 WB,Ad          1994-2000 133 WB  38
        Robran, Matthew        78  85 Ha,Ad          1991-2001 137 Ha   7
        Stevens, Mark          20  41 NM,Ad          1995-2005 122 NM  21
        Thiessen, James        24  31 Ri,Ad          1993-2000  51 Ri   7
1999 NM Abraham, Winston       48  86 Fr,NM          1995-2001 110 Fr  38
        Bell, Peter            98 100 Fr,NM,Fr       1995-2008 286 Fr   2
        Blakey, John          164 299 Fi,NM          1985-2002 359 Fi 135
        Clayton, Shane         25  43 Fi,Br,NM       1996-2004 117 Fi  13
                                                                   Br   5
        Grant, Shannon         49 107 Sy,NM          1995-2008 301 Sy  58
        Pike, Martin           61 121 Me,Fi,NM,Br    1993-2005 247 Me  24
                                                                   Fi  36
2000 Es Barnard, Paul          81  92 Ha,Es          1994-2003 151 Ha  11
        Barnes, John           36 180 Es,Ge,Es       1987-2001 202 Ge 144
        Wellman, Sean         101 135 Ad,Es          1994-2004 212 Ad  34
2001 Br Johnson, Chris L.      95 154 Fi,Br          1994-2007 264 Fi  59
        Lynch, Alastair       129 249 Fi,Br          1988-2004 306 Fi 120
        Michael, Mal           24  85 Co,Br,Es       1997-2008 238 Co  61
        Pike, Martin           22 163 Me,Fi,NM,Br    1993-2005 247 Me  24
                                                                   Fi  36
                                                                   NM  81
        Scott, Brad            49  71 Ha,Br          1997-2006 168 Ha  22
2002 Br Johnson, Chris L.     117 176 Fi,Br          1994-2007 264 Fi  59
        Lynch, Alastair       151 271 Fi,Br          1988-2004 306 Fi 120
        Michael, Mal           49 110 Co,Br,Es       1997-2008 238 Co  61
        Pike, Martin           47 188 Me,Fi,NM,Br    1993-2005 247 Me  24
                                                                   Fi  36
                                                                   NM  81
        Scott, Brad            74  96 Ha,Br          1997-2006 168 Ha  22
2003 Br Caracella, Blake       18 144 Es,Br,Co       1997-2006 187 Es 126
        Johnson, Chris L.     138 197 Fi,Br          1994-2007 264 Fi  59
        Lynch, Alastair       173 293 Fi,Br          1988-2004 306 Fi 120
        Michael, Mal           72 133 Co,Br,Es       1997-2008 238 Co  61
        Pike, Martin           72 213 Me,Fi,NM,Br    1993-2005 247 Me  24
                                                                   Fi  36
                                                                   NM  81
2004 PA Bishop, Matthew        96 114 Me,PA          1998-2006 150 Me  18
        Hardwick, Damien       54 207 Es,PA          1994-2004 207 Es 153
        Mahoney, Josh          19  49 Co,WB,PA       1997-2007  97 Co  19
                                                                   WB  11
        Montgomery, Brett     103 163 WB,PA,WB       1997-2007 204 WB  60
        Pickett, Byron         40 160 NM,PA,Me       1997-2007 204 NM 120
        Schofield, Jarrad     131 194 WC,PA,Fr       1993-2006 206 WC  63
        Wakelin, Darryl        87 202 St,PA          1995-2007 261 St 115
        Wanganeen, Gavin      149 276 Es,PA          1991-2006 300 Es 127
2005 Sy Ball, Jason            90 193 WC,Sy          1992-2005 193 WC 103
        Bolton, Craig          74 103 Br,Sy          2000-2010 199 Br  29
        Davis, Nick            59 130 Co,Sy          1999-2008 168 Co  71
        Hall, Barry            91 179 St,Sy,WB       1996-2011 289 St  88
        Jolly, Darren          24  72 Me,Sy,Co       2001-2012 213 Me  48
        Williams, Paul        105 294 Co,Sy          1991-2006 306 Co 189
2006 WC Armstrong, Steven      10  53 Me,WC          2002-2008  79 Me  43
        Chick, Daniel          84 233 Ha,WC          1996-2007 252 Ha 149
        Stenglein, Tyson       48 154 Ad,WC          1999-2009 208 Ad 106
2007 Ge Harley, Tom           158 159 PA,Ge          1998-2009 198 PA   1
        Mooney, Cameron       133 144 NM,Ge          1999-2011 221 NM  11
        Ottens, Brad           59 188 Ri,Ge          1998-2011 245 Ha 129
2008 Ha Croad, Trent          184 222 Ha,Fr,Ha       1998-2008 222 Fr  38
        Dew, Stuart            15 195 PA,Ha          1997-2009 206 PA 180
        Gilham, Stephen        52  53 PA,Ha          2005-2011  93 PA   1
        Guerra, Brent          60 156 PA,St,Ha       2000-2012 222 PA  65
                                                                   St  31
2009 Ge Harley, Tom           197 198 PA,Ge          1998-2009 198 PA   1
        Mooney, Cameron       181 192 NM,Ge          1999-2011 221 NM  11
        Ottens, Brad           81 210 Ri,Ge          1998-2011 245 Ri 129
2010 Co Ball, Luke             24 166 St,Co          2003-2012 193 St 142
        Brown, Leigh           42 223 Fr,NM,Co       2000-2011 246 Fr  63
                                                                   NM 118
        Jolly, Darren          26 192 Me,Sy,Co       2001-2012 213 Me  48
                                                                   Sy 118
2011 Ge Ottens, Brad          116 245 Ri,Ge          1998-2011 245 Ri 129

NB there was no GF in 1924. Figures listed in columns 4 & 5 are games played that season and total games for Essendon.

 

[Ed_Gein]

someone pointed this out on the swans board;

That's wins in our last appearances at ANZ, SCG, Etihad, Subiaco, Gabba, Cattery, AAMI, Manuka, Gold Coast and Aurora.

All we need is to win next week and then Tigers at MCG and we have a complete set. We will have won our last game at every ground in the league.

I wonder if we would be the first to ever achieve that ?

can anyone shed any light on this one?

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Complete list, with GF match # for club, GF match # for career, previous club(s) and games played.

Cheers, thanks for that RTB.

 

[the croucher]

I don't know much about this site:- http://www.australianrulesfootball.com.au/pages/australianfootballleague

but it covers plenty of awards, including Champion of the Colony. This award gets a reasonable mention in the AFL Record Season Guide and I'm sure Wikipedia and other sources would cover it too.

One of the great modern myths of Australian Football history.

Champion of the Colony award never existed, the list of alleged winners is simply a product of an author's post-WWII musings.

 

[RogersResults]

One of the great modern myths of Australian Football history.

Champion of the Colony award never existed, the list of alleged winners is simply a product of an author's post-WWII musings.

There nearest anyone anyway came to the title was, "Dolly" Christie, who was stated to have earned the title of 'champion footballer of the colony' at the AGM East Fremantle Football Club - March 1901.

West Australian 7 March 1901.

There were "Champions of the Colony" in all colonies in all sorts of activities from archery to wrestling, but Australian Football was not one of them.

In 1879, Geelong were referred to a the "Champion Football Club of the Colony."

Singling out individuals in team sports for special awards was considered neither seemly nor gentlemanly in the 19th century.

"The Champion of the Colony" award is a complete 'furphy', a later construction with no actual foundation. (Like Columbus supposedly trying to convince people that the earth was not flat - which was never the issue at time.)

 

[Ron The Bear]

someone pointed this out on the swans board;

can anyone shed any light on this one?

A good question, and a curly one to research. As far as I can tell, the record is held by Richmond, which, following its 1940 semi-final win over Melbourne, had won its previous match at all 14 venues it had played at to that point (Arden Street, Brunswick Street, Corio Oval, East Melbourne Cricket Ground, Glenferrie Oval, Junction Oval, Lakeside Oval, MCG, Motordrome, Princes Park, Punt Road, Victoria Park, Whitten Oval & Windy Hill). Note that its last match at the Motordrome was in 1932, and at East Melbourne, 1921.

Next best is 10, by Fitzroy, following Rounds 16-18, 1920.

Restricting results to grounds played at in the previous two calendar years in an effort to consider only "current" venues, the record is 12, held by:
Collingwood, R12 to R18 1929
Collingwood, GF 1929 to R3 1930
Richmond, SF 1940

Teams which have recorded 11:
Geelong, R9 & R10 1926
Richmond, R4 & R5 1974
Richmond, R11 1974
North Melbourne, SF & PF 1976
North Melbourne, R3 to R5 1977
Hawthorn, R12 & R13 1978
North Melbourne, R7 to R9 1980
Hawthorn, R5 1984

 

[RogersResults]

someone pointed this out on the swans board;

That's wins in our last appearances at ANZ, SCG, Etihad, Subiaco, Gabba, Cattery, AAMI, Manuka, Gold Coast and Aurora.

All we need is to win next week and then Tigers at MCG and we have a complete set. We will have won our last game at every ground in the league.

I wonder if we would be the first to ever achieve that ?

can anyone shed any light on this one?

It is true of all the venues that they have played at that are currently in use as venues for AFL matches, the MCG is the only one that Sydney have not won their last match at. As for the achievement there have been 41 venues used for League matches so far in 115 seasons - Sydney/SM have played at 30 of them. Of those 30 they have won 20 and lost 10 of their last matches at each venue. Of those 30 only 11 still host League matches.

As to being the first it depends on the exact criteria.

For example at Round 15 2010, Geelong had won at every last venue that they had played at but that was at 3 fewer venues than Sydney has currently won their last match at.

At round 9 2000, Essendon has won at every last venue that they had played at but again 3 fewer than Sydney at round 5 2012.

There will be many more examples especially as the number of teams and venues decreases.

So Sydney will not be the first if they win at the MCG but they may be the team with the most last venues won at.

 

[grimlock]

What is the correlation between winning a medal on offer for a H&A game and winning Brownlow votes, in particular the 3 vote, for that game?

 

[worbod]

Which team has sat on top of the ladder the furthest into a season and then missed the finals altogether? I am wondering whether anyone can surpass Adelaide of 1996, when they were unbeaten after round 4 with a percentage of 199.3.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Which team has sat on top of the ladder the furthest into a season and then missed the finals altogether? I am wondering whether anyone can surpass Adelaide of 1996, when they were unbeaten after round 4 with a percentage of 199.3.

All time:
Collingwood 1954, Round 14 (of 18), 1st, 10-4-0, 111.07%, finished 7th of 12
Richmond 1966, Round 14 (of 18), 1st, 11-2-1, 129.51%, finished 5th of 12

Melbourne in 1899 were 5 from 5, 235.00% before finishing 6th of 8
In 1965 they were 8 from 8, 126.43%, before finishing 7th of 12

AFL era:
Collingwood 1996, Round 9 (of 22), 1st, 6-3-0, 131.12%, finished 10th of 16

My cricket team was on top of the ladder as of Saturday morning, February 4 and was out of the finals at season's end on March 4.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

A few weeks ago Ratten made the double 100 for playing and coaching at the one club, just curious as to what company he joins across the league? Including captain-coaches?

 

[Ron The Bear]

A few weeks ago Ratten made the double 100 for playing and coaching at the one club, just curious as to what company he joins across the league? Including captain-coaches?

Last two columns are games played as captain-coach for the club, and individual matches as captain or coach for the club (matches played + matches coached - matches where captain-coach):

                       Player                  | Coach
Player/Coach        Cb CbM CaM Club(s) Career  | CbM CaM Club(s)          Career  CCo IMa
-----------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------
Barassi, Ron D.     Me 204 254 Me,Ca 1953-1969 | 111 515 Me,Ca,NM,Me,Sy 1964-1995     315
Bentley, Percy      Ri 263 263 Ri    1925-1940 | 133 414 Ri,Ca          1934-1955 127 269
Carter, F. Wally    NM 137 137 NM    1929-1940 | 208 208 NM             1948-1962     345
Clark, Norman       Ca 126 126 Ca    1905-1912 | 150 214 Ca,Ri,Ca,St,NM 1912-1931  11 265
Davis, Bob          Ge 189 189 Ge    1948-1958 | 116 116 Ge             1956-1965   1 314
Dyer senior, Jack   Ri 312 312 Ri    1931-1949 | 226 226 Ri             1941-1952 159 379
Hands, Ken          Ca 211 211 Ca    1945-1957 | 114 114 Ca             1959-1964     325
Hickey, Reg         Ge 245 245 Ge    1926-1940 | 304 304 Ge             1932-1959  86 463
Kennedy, John J.    Ha 164 164 Ha    1950-1959 | 299 412 Ha,NM          1957-1989   1 462
Kyne, Phonse        Co 245 245 Co    1934-1950 | 272 272 Co             1950-1963   7 510
McHale, Jock        Co 261 261 Co    1903-1920 | 713 713 Co             1912-1949  97 877
Olliver, Arthur     WB 272 272 WB    1935-1950 | 131 131 WB             1943-1950 127 276
Pagan, Denis        NM 120 143 NM,Sy 1967-1976 | 240 344 NM,Ca          1993-2007     360
Pianto, Peter       Ge 121 121 Ge    1951-1957 | 105 105 Ge             1966-1970     226
Ratten, Brett       Ca 255 255 Ca    1990-2003 | 103 103 Ca             2007-2012     358
Reynolds, Dick      Es 320 320 Es    1933-1951 | 415 415 Es             1939-1960 218 517
Rose, Bob           Co 152 152 Co    1946-1955 | 193 282 Co,WB,Co       1964-1986     345
Schwab, Peter       Ha 171 171 Ha    1980-1991 | 109 109 Ha             2000-2004     280
Smith, Norm W.      Me 210 227 Me,Fi 1935-1950 | 310 452 Fi,Me,Sy       1949-1972     520
Stephen, Bill       Fi 162 162 Fi    1947-1957 | 214 258 Fi,Es,Fi       1955-1980  48 328
Sutton, Charlie     WB 173 173 WB    1942-1956 | 162 162 WB             1951-1968  73 262
Whitten senior, Ted WB 321 321 WB    1951-1970 | 228 228 WB             1957-1971 174 375
Worsfold, John      WC 209 209 WC    1987-1998 | 240 240 WC             2002-2012     449

John Worsfold notches game #450 for West Coast on Sunday.

 

[red+black]

With the outside chance that Melbourne VS GWS in RD13 could be a match between 2 winless sides (considering Melbourne's horror run of matches coming up), what is the latest round in a season there has been a match between sides yet to win a game?

Following on from this, and an earlier question of mine that related to one or more sides unbeaten streaks to begin a season, what is the worst start to a season for 1 team, 2 teams, 3 teams, etc?

Currently we have 3 teams on 0-6. I'm guessing that's a record.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Following on from this, and an earlier question of mine that related to one or more sides unbeaten streaks to begin a season, what is the worst start to a season for 1 team, 2 teams, 3 teams, etc?

Currently we have 3 teams on 0-6. I'm guessing that's a record.

0- 1 9 teams 2012
0- 2 7 teams 1995
0- 3 5 teams 1995
0- 4 3 teams 1914,1946,1959,1967,1975,1995,2012
0- 5 3 teams 1995,2012
0- 6 3 teams 2012
0- 7 2 teams 1949,1972,1991,2007
0- 8 2 teams 1949,1972,1991,2007
0- 9 2 teams 1972,2007
0-10 2 teams 1972
0-11 1 team  29 occurrences
0-12 1 team  25 occurrences
0-13 1 team  23 occurrences
0-14 1 team  19 occurrences
0-15 1 team  13 occurrences
0-16 1 team  12 occurrences
0-17 1 team  10 occurrences
0-18 1 team   8 occurrences

No club has reached 0-19.

 

[Supermercado]

So Melbourne vs GWS is possibly the first ever 0-11 match. That's something to look forward to.

 

[Ron The Bear]

So Melbourne vs GWS is possibly the first ever 0-11 match. That's something to look forward to.

Amazing to think that after losing to Geelong by 9 points in the 1972 match, with both clubs having lost to every other team, North made a GF two years later and won a flag the following year (spearheaded by Doug Wade, who kicked 7 for Geelong in this match).

 

[The Passenger]

in the end it didn't stand out so much cause we kicked 5.3 to 3.3 but at three quarter time the score read 12.15 to 12.2 in today's West Coast and north game.

if that were the final score, would that have been close or anywhere near the record for difference in goalkicking % of the team two teams.... i guess you'd probably have to say in games only where both teams had 5 scoring shots to remove some of the statistical outliers...

we were kicking at 44% and they were at 85% which was a 92% improvement on our goalkicking (or 41, depending on whether you consider the best way to determine this is 85-44, or 85/44).....

 

[red+black]

So Melbourne vs GWS is possibly the first ever 0-11 match. That's something to look forward to.

You're assuming Gold Coast will defeat Western Sydney next week.

In Round 19, we could have Melbourne (0-17) hosting Gold Coast (0-17).

 

[RogersResults]

in the end it didn't stand out so much cause we kicked 5.3 to 3.3 but at three quarter time the score read 12.15 to 12.2 in today's West Coast and north game.

if that were the final score, would that have been close or anywhere near the record for difference in goalkicking % of the team two teams.... i guess you'd probably have to say in games only where both teams had 5 scoring shots to remove some of the statistical outliers...

we were kicking at 44% and they were at 85% which was a 92% improvement on our goalkicking (or 41, depending on whether you consider the best way to determine this is 85-44, or 85/44).....

At 3/4 time West Coast had scored 0.8 goals for every behind.
North had scored 6 goals for every behind.

There have been 10 bigger differences than that in final scores:

Round 7 1940 North Melbourne 8.1 v Melbourne 12.34 is the greatest.
Melbourne scored 0.35 goals for every behind.
North scored 8 goals for every behind.