Stats questions

[worbod]

The Croucher takes the cake. Richmond played Hawthorn in a curtain raiser before the 1977 Grand Final Replay because the Reserves and Under 19 grand finals had obviously been decided the week before. Hawthorn won by three points: 15.15 (105) to 15.12 (102). Peter Hudson flew back from Tasmania especially to play, and kicked 7 goals.

 

[the croucher]

The Croucher takes the cake. Richmond played Hawthorn in a curtain raiser before the 1977 Grand Final Replay because the Reserves and Under 19 grand finals had obviously been decided the week before. Hawthorn won by three points: 15.15 (105) to 15.12 (102). Peter Hudson flew back from Tasmania especially to play, and kicked 7 goals.

more details of the match from The Age, Monday, 3 October 1977

match was umpired by Bill Deller and Mike(?) Dye

Goals-
Haw: P Hudson 7, L Matthews 3, Geoff Ablett, P Bennett, B Rowlings, M Scott, P Murnane 1 each
Rich: B Monteath 6, N Balme 2, J Hummel 2, P Laughlin 2, B Wood, W Walsh, G Gaunt 1 each

others who played included :
(H) K Moore, P Knights, D O'Halloran
(R) M Keane, A Edwards

The Herald on the Saturday evening (1 October) no doubt published the full team lists.
I'll get to Melbourne at some stage later in the year and check at SLV newspaper room, if no one else has had chance to do so by then.

 

[worbod]

The Age, September 30, 1977 published the Hawthorn/Richmond lists on page 30.
http://news.google.com.au/newspapers?nid=MDQ-9Oe3GGUC&dat=19770930&printsec=frontpage&hl=en

 

[c4v3m4n99]

Hi there!

I was wondering if someone could please tell me what the record is for the most players on one team reaching 30 possessions or more in a single match?

And the same for 20 possessions and 10 possessions.

Thanking you in advance.

 

[Ron The Bear]

30 - 7 players: St.Kilda 2009 R16, Geelong 1988 R9, Hawthorn 1986 R13 (last two unofficial)
20 - 16 players: St.Kilda 2010 R19
10 - 22 players. 56 teams have done this; first was Geelong in 2000 R5, only case in 2012 was West Coast R14. Also 2 teams with 21/21 1995-96, and 15 with 20/20 1982-93

 

[c4v3m4n99]

30 - 7 players: St.Kilda 2009 R16, Geelong 1988 R9, Hawthorn 1986 R13 (last two unofficial)
20 - 16 players: St.Kilda 2010 R19
10 - 22 players. 56 teams have done this; first was Geelong in 2000 R5, only case in 2012 was West Coast R14. Also 2 teams with 21/21 1995-96, and 15 with 20/20 1982-93

Wow, that was a quick response! Thanks so much!

 

[Bluish]

On a similar note, is this the only game where each player from both sides have hit double figure possessions?

 

[Ron The Bear]

On a similar note, is this the only game where each player from both sides have hit double figure possessions?

Collingwood/North, 2010 Round 7? Yes.

 

[hawkman]

30 - 7 players: St.Kilda 2009 R16, Geelong 1988 R9, Hawthorn 1986 R13 (last two unofficial)
20 - 16 players: St.Kilda 2010 R19
10 - 22 players. 56 teams have done this; first was Geelong in 2000 R5, only case in 2012 was West Coast R14. Also 2 teams with 21/21 1995-96, and 15 with 20/20 1982-93

What is the highest amount of possessions where every player in the team has reached?

 

[RedmanWasHere]

What's the highest lowest possession tally and what's the lowest highest possession tally?


Cheers.

 

[Ron The Bear]

What's the highest lowest possession tally and what's the lowest highest possession tally?

Cheers.

What is the highest amount of possessions where every player in the team has reached?

min max - 15, Fremantle, 2000 R11
max min - 13, Geelong, 2010 R9

 

[hawkman]

With the sub rule it is hard to see any team beating the Geelong record

What is the lowest amount of possessions recorded in a game by one team? and both teams?

 

[Catsace]

Just off the top of my head, the winning run of Collingwood (11 vs Sydney) would have to come close to being one of the more unusual in respect to Sydney being a finalist i think all bar 2009. Essendon from 1981-1986 would also be in the same boat, where one finalist had a stranglehold on another strong contender when they had a 10-0 run against Carlton.

Have there been any other similar runs of dominance by one side over another when both have been powers?

 

[hawkman]

Just off the top of my head, the winning run of Collingwood (11 vs Sydney) would have to come close to being one of the more unusual in respect to Sydney being a finalist i think all bar 2009. Essendon from 1981-1986 would also be in the same boat, where one finalist had a stranglehold on another strong contender when they had a 10-0 run against Carlton.

Have there been any other similar runs of dominance by one side over another when both have been powers?

Geelong over Hawthorn 2009-

 

[RogersResults]

Just off the top of my head, the winning run of Collingwood (11 vs Sydney) would have to come close to being one of the more unusual in respect to Sydney being a finalist i think all bar 2009. Essendon from 1981-1986 would also be in the same boat, where one finalist had a stranglehold on another strong contender when they had a 10-0 run against Carlton.

Have there been any other similar runs of dominance by one side over another when both have been powers?

After Collingwood lost the 1926 Grand Final to Melbourne they were undefeated against them for 19 consecutive matches 1927-1936. (The run included two draws including a drawn final.)
However Melbourne were not exactly a 'power' in the period. Although 1927-1936 they won 51.36% of their matches (one of 6 of the 12 teams to win more than half their matches) and beat all other opponents at least 5 times, they only played in two finals series in that period.

Then Melbourne went 10 undefeated v Collingwood 1955-58 (including 2 semi-finals and 2 grand finals wins and 1 draw) before losing the 1958 GF to the Magpies. In the period up to the 1958 GF, Collingwood won 64.38% of their matches, and played in 3 finals series.

In the period of Sydney's losing streak 2006-12 v Collingwood they have won 57.45% of their matches (ranked 5th highest in the period) and beaten (excluding Suns and Giants) all other opponents at least 5 times (except Adelaide only once and Geelong 3 times) and played in 5 finals series.

Geelong and Hawthorn are nearest current contenders but I can't think of any other examples - where two teams could have been consider 'powers' with as long a streak as Collingwood's current one against Sydney.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

min max - 15, Fremantle, 2000 R11
max min - 13, Geelong, 2010 R9

Amazing.

Where the hell do you guys come up with these things?

Unbelievable.

 

[RogersResults]

Amazing.

Where the hell do you guys come up with these things?

Unbelievable.

There are machines with data and people with imagination to ask the right questions.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

(Sorry if this has been asked)

Who is the biggest coach "killer" of all time? I know the idea of coaches going h2h is a bit of a nonsense, but I'm just curious as to who has coached the most games against someone who was coaching their last game.

So, Sheeds "killed" Primus, P. Williams killed Harvey, Hird killed Eade, Scott polished off Bailey, Lyon did in Craig, et cetera...

 

[Ron The Bear]

(Sorry if this has been asked)

Who is the biggest coach "killer" of all time? I know the idea of coaches going h2h is a bit of a nonsense, but I'm just curious as to who has coached the most games against someone who was coaching their last game.

So, Sheeds "killed" Primus, P. Williams killed Harvey, Hird killed Eade, Scott polished off Bailey, Lyon did in Craig, et cetera...

Interesting trivia question. I don't know enough about the individual histories to distinguish between coaches being sacked, retiring, resigning in advance (e.g. Sheedy/Daniher) or whatever. For instance it's ridiculous to claim Checker Hughes 'killed' Charlie Clymo - premiership coach at Geelong in his only year - after he left to coach in a country league.

But anyway, here is the raw data. Permanent appointments listed only; no caretakers or stand-ins:

Co Coach                Year Rd Opposing coach    Cb Rd Gms R Mgn Seq
---------------------------------------------------------------------
16 McHale, Jock         1917 SF Belcher, Vic         Sy  53 L  60  1L
                        1918 SF Smith, Jimmy M.      St  49 L   9  2L
                        1919 GF Clark, Norman        Ri  19 L  25  1L
                        1919 SF Valentine, Viv       Ca  17 L  18  1L
                        1920 18 Hiskins, Arthur      Sy  16 L  17  2L
                        1923 18 Wilson, Percy        Me  48 L  51 12L
                        1926  6 Cassidy, Jim         WB   8 L 126  3L
                        1927 18 Barker senior, Syd   NM  18 L  26 14L
                        1927 SF Rankin, Cliff        Ge  57 L  66  1L
                        1930 18 Hardy, Charlie       Es  54 L  43  2L
                        1932 SF Leonard, Johnny      Sy  19 L  26  2L
                        1932 18 Warne-Smith, Ivor    Me  92 L  23  4L
                        1936 GF Bisset, Jack         Sy  80 L  11  1L
                        1937  4 Coventry senior, Syd WB  36 L  33  3L
                        1937 18 Minogue, Dan         St  54 L  38  1L
                        1940 18 Clarke, Ansell       St  55 L  34  4L
 
12 Hughes senior, Frank 1927 SF Clover, Horrie       Ca  45 L   6  1L
                        1927 18 Minogue, Dan         Ha  36 L  66  3L
                        1928 SF Brew, Ray            Ca  37 L  53  1L
                        1928 18 Fitzmaurice, Tom     Ge  18 l  48  6L
                        1929  8 Freake, Jimmy        Fi   8 L  41  6L
                        1930 18 Cubbins, Bill        St  18 W  10  2W
                        1931 GF Clymo, Charlie       Ge  21 W  20  2W
                        1936 SF Maher, Frank         Ca  38 L   9  2L
                        1937 18 Scanlan, Paddy       NM  54 L  39  9L
                        1939 18 Rattray, Gordon      Fi  72 L  46  1L
                        1940 GF Bentley, Percy       Ri 133 L  39  1L
                        1947 19 Hird senior, Allan   St  38 L  93  7L
 
11 Hafey, Tom           1971 SF Rose, Bob            Co 168 L  44  3L
                        1972 22 Smith, Norm W.       Sy  87 L  76 16L
                        1975 SF Nicholls, John       Ca  95 L   9  2L
                        1976 22 Jeans, Allan         St 332 L  34  4L
                        1977 22 Skilton, Bob         Me  88 L  14  2L
                        1978 22 Jones, Dennis        Me  22 L  31  1L
                        1979 GF Jesaulenko, Alex     Ca  42 W   5  3W
                        1980 EF Barassi, Ron D.      NM 198 L   8  1L
                        1980 22 Ditterich, Carl      Me  44 L  58  9L
                        1980 SF Jones, Peter         Ca  24 L  50  2L
                        1985 22 Walls, Robert        Fi 115 L  23  4L
 
11 Barassi, Ron D.      1970 22 Beckwith, John       Me  62 L  14  3L
                        1973 22 Ridley, Ian          Me  66 L   5  8L
                        1975 22 John, Graeme         Sy  66 L  22  2L
                        1976 GF Kennedy, John J.     Ha 299 W  30  3W
                        1978  1 Goggin, Bill         WB  46 L  69  1L
                        1978 22 Tuddenham, Des       Sy  22 L  24  4L
                        1982 10 Hafey, Tom           Co 138 L   7  8L
                        1984 22 Patterson, Michael   Ri  22 W  28  1W
                        1985 22 Sproule, Paul        Ri  22 W  41  2W
                        1995 22 Matthews, Leigh      Co 224 L  23  2L
                        1995 19 Quinlan, Bernie      Fi  19 L 126 11L
 
10 Parkin, David        1977 22 Stephen, Bill        Es  44 L  38  6L
                        1979 22 McKenzie, Don        WB  43 L  38  3L
                        1980 22 Davis, Barry         Es  67 W  40  2W
                        1980  2 Patterson, Michael   St  46 L  33  7L
                        1981 22 Jewell, Tony         Ri  69 L  27  1L
                        1991 24 Bartlett, Kevin      Ri  88 W  15  1W
                        1995 QF Walls, Robert        Ca 109 L  13  1L
                        1998 22 Cahill, John         PA  44 L  54  1L
                        1999 22 Gieschen, Jeff       Ri  49 W  11  1W
                        1999 SF Malthouse, Mick      WC 243 L  54  1L
 
10 Sheedy, Kevin        1984 22 Cable, Barry         NM  76 L  38  3L
                        1984 PF Cahill, John         Co  47 L 133  1L
                        1985 22 Northey, John        Sy  22 L  87  1L
                        1993  4 Buckenara, Gary      Sy  25 L  86 18L
                        1996 14 Nunan, Michael       Fi  14 L  66  6L
                        2000 PF Parkin, David        Ca 355 L  45  1L
                        2002 22 Brittain, Wayne      Ca  46 L  55  1L
                        2004 22 Rohde, Peter         WB  45 L  17  1L
                        2007 13 Daniher, Neale       Me 223 L   2  2L
                        2012 19 Primus, Matthew      PA  47 L  34  2L

The only case of one coach seeing off another twice is Stan Alves -> Robert Shaw, at Fitzroy in 1994 and Adelaide in 1996.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

There are machines with data and people with imagination to ask the right questions.

You guys are the kings of all the stats threads.

I dread the day where you guys will have a last post.

 

[Ron The Bear]

What is the lowest amount of possessions recorded in a game by one team? and both teams?

187 - Richmond v St.Kilda at Princes Park, R17 1995
436 - Essendon v Footscray at Windy Hill, R14 1987

NB Numbers are since 1974 from Paul's AFL Tables site.

Figures varied greatly for previous eras, e.g. in a random issue of Footy Week for Round 1, 1965, North Melbourne was recorded as having 156 disposals v South Melbourne (admittedly in very heavy conditions). The match total was 341.

Players in the 1933 Grand Final were attributed with a total of 611 kicks. Handballs weren't recorded. 30 of the 37 players (Richmond didn't use its sub) reached double figures, including South's sub, Beard.

 

[Bluish]

Read that Collingwood have won their last 16 quarters against North. What is the longest consecutive streak of quarters won against one opponent?

 

[Ron The Bear]

Read that Collingwood have won their last 16 quarters against North. What is the longest consecutive streak of quarters won against one opponent?

Rogers may want to correct me as this was a trickier-than-normal query to write:

Qu Cb Op Year Rd-Year Rd
------------------------
20 Es Ca 1900 12-1902  5
20 Co Sy 1971  9-1973 12
18 Co St 1900 12-1901 SR
18 Ri Ha 1995  3-1997 15
17 Es Ca 1898 10-1900  5
17 Ca Me 1985 16-1988 13
16 Ca Me 1909  5-1911  9
16 Ge NM 1936 13-1939  7
16 Ha Sy 1973 22-1975 14
16 PA WB 2000  3-2002 13
16*Co NM 2009  6-2011 16
15 Co St 1898 13-1900  5
15 Ca Ge 1941 10-1945 19
15 Co Sy 1971  9-1972 21
15 Me Ri 2004  2-2006 15

 

[The Passenger]

min max - 15, Fremantle, 2000 R11
max min - 13, Geelong, 2010 R9

what about the min max for a winning team?
and them max min for a losing team?

interesting geelong followed that round 9 game up with another game with all players getting 10 possessions.

and the record for highest x amount of possession getters on the ground and still lost....

 

[RedmanWasHere]

what about the min max for a winning team?
and them max min for a losing team?

interesting geelong followed that round 9 game up with another game with all players getting 10 possessions.

and the record for highest x amount of possession getters on the ground and still lost....

Didn't Footscray get 440 odd a couple of years ago when they lost to St Kilda?

Oh wait, St Kilda got 460 odd a couple of years ago vs Adelaide Round 22.

Didn't Sydney beat Essendon with 220 odd touches compared to Essendon 210 odd?