Stats questions

[Ogrebait]

Thank you, RedmanWasHere. I may have to collate the data myself but that's a much better starting point.

I'm trying to work out a snapshot of the demographics of the AFL - where they players where recruited from; percentages from each state; etc. - broken down club-by-club.

 

[footyfan1978]

While adding to the above, if I was to partake in it I'd be representing Victoria.

Born, raised and based in Victoria.

If it was done for real as a proper Sate of Origin game, (which hopefully happens next year) I am fairly sure how it would work is where the player is drafted from. Example.. Eddie Betts drafted from Calder Cannons as teenager would be Vic rep on such rules. Tom Mitchell drafted from Claremont would be able to represent WA as another example. Both born in other states but their teenage drafted years would be final say on which state they should represent.

 

[footyfan1978]

Not quite, I'm after a more detailed breakdown - although I'd take a breakdown of AFL players by SoO as a starting point. At the moment I can't even get a list view of players (and where they were recruited from) on the AFL clubs' own websites.

You might be looking in wrong spot.
I found it within a minute here...https://www.afl.com.au/draft/history

Every player drafted from 1986 to present...

Example.. 2011

Selection	Drafted player	AFL club	Club of origin	Draft year
9	Adam Tomlinson	Greater Western Sydney	Oakleigh U18	2011
10	Liam Sumner	Greater Western Sydney	Sandringham U18	2011
11	Toby Greene	Greater Western Sydney	Oakleigh U18	2011
12	Sam Docherty	Brisbane Lions	Gippsland U18	2011
13	Taylor Adams	Greater Western Sydney	Geelong U18	2011
14	Devon Smith	Greater Western Sydney	Geelong U18	2011
15	Brandon Ellis	Richmond	Calder U18	2011
16	Tom Sheridan	Fremantle	Calder U18	2011
17	Clay Smith	Western Bulldogs	Gippsland U18	2011
18	Brad McKenzie	North Melbourne	Sturt	2011
19	Elliott Kavanagh	Essendon	Western U18	2011
20	Hayden Crozier	Fremantle	Eastern U18	2011
21	Tom Mitchell	Sydney Swans	Claremont	2011

Tom Mitchell drafted club of origin.. Claremont...

 

[Cuzz09]

Fitzroy team-mates Jeff Hogg and Simon Atkins both finished their careers with 33 game losing streaks. Atkins' last win was Fitzroy's upset victory over Adelaide in Round 8 1995, while Hogg last saw victory in Round 12 1994, another Fitzroy upset win over Hawthorn on this occasion.

I went to that Adelaide v Fitzroy game. Was very weird. They dominated the last qtr.

AFL Tables - Adelaide v Fitzroy - Sat, 20-May-1995 8:10 PM (8:40 PM) - Match Stats

afltables.com

Just looking up old games and noticed Matthew Llotd debuted v Adelaide in rd 14 1995 @ MCG... He kicked 3 goals and Essendon won by 122 points.

AFL Tables - Essendon v Adelaide - Sat, 8-Jul-1995 2:10 PM - Match Stats

afltables.com

Is this the biggest win by a player on debut?

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[RedmanWasHere]

Is this the biggest win by a player on debut?

From memory, Peter Daicos has this sewn up.

In 1979, Collingwood defeated St Kilda by 178 points. (207-29.)

 

[footyfan1978]

From memory, Peter Daicos has this sewn up.

In 1979, Collingwood defeated St Kilda by 178 points. (207-29.)

Did any player debut when Fitzroy beat Melbourne by 190 points ?

 

[Cuzz09]

Emuboy...

West Coast have never finished 10th or 12th,17th or 18th.

Adelaide have never finished lower than 14th.



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[Cuzz09]

From memory, Peter Daicos has this sewn up.

In 1979, Collingwood defeated St Kilda by 178 points. (207-29.)

Oh wow. Ok Daics and Lloydy a couple of decent players getting a nice easy start to their careers

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[footyfan1978]

Had a look. Answer is no.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Had a look. Answer is no.

Nor did any Geelong players debut in the 233-47 game from 2011.

 

[Ogrebait]

I found it within a minute here...https://www.afl.com.au/draft/history

Every player drafted from 1986 to present...

Thanks, footyfan78, but I'm looking for current lists.

 

[footyfan1978]

Thanks, footyfan78, but I'm looking for current lists.

Then just copy and paste the years of current players onto a spreadsheet and then sort yourself how you want it.

Kade Simpson or Gary Ablett would be the longest draft you have to look back to. Not any earlier.

 

[footyfan1978]

Then just copy and paste the years of current players onto a spreadsheet and then sort yourself how you want it.

Kade Simpson or Gary Ablett would be the longest draft you have to look back to. Not any earlier.

anyway, draft guru probably quickest way online for current lists..
Example : My own club. Eddie Betts Calder Cannons Under 18's
Original Club column is what you want.

# ↧		Player	DOB	Age	Height	Weight	Games Prior	Goals Prior	Votes Prior	Games 2020	Goals 2020	Votes 2020	Original Club	Drafted	Honours
1		Jack Silvagni	17 Dec 97	22yr	191cm	93kg	60	45	0	0	0	0	Greythorn/Xavier College/Oakleigh U18	#53 National 2015
2		Paddy Dow	16 Oct 99	20yr	185cm	78kg	39	14	0	0	0	0	Swan Hill/Bendigo U18	#3 National 2017
3		Marc Murphy	19 Jul 87	32yr	180cm	82kg	268	185	112	0	0	0	Beverley Hills/Doncaster/Whitefriars College/Oakleigh U18	#1 National 2005	AA: 2011; AFLCA: 2011; B&F: 2011, 2017; AFLPA 1st: 2006; Larke: 2005; AA40: 2009
4		Lochie O'Brien	18 Sep 99	20yr	184cm	77kg	35	9	0	0	0	0	South Mildura/Bendigo U18	#10 National 2017
5		Sam Petrevski-Seton	19 Feb 98	22yr	180cm	74kg	64	19	6	0	0	0	Halls Creek/Claremont	#6 National 2016
6		Kade Simpson	5 May 84	35yr	182cm	75kg	325	138	67	0	0	0	Emerald/Eastern U18	#45 National 2002	B&F: 2013; AA40: 2016
7		Matthew Kennedy	6 Apr 97	23yr	188cm	88kg	41	21	1	0	0	0	Collingullie-Glenfield Park/NSW-ACT U18	#13 National 2015
8		Matthew Kreuzer	13 May 89	30yr	200cm	103kg	188	94	27	0	0	0	Bundoora/Loyola College/Northern U18	#1 National 2007	Morrish: 2007; AA40: 2017
9		Patrick Cripps	18 Mar 95	25yr	193cm	91kg	101	47	75	0	0	0	Northampton/East Fremantle	#13 National 2013	AA: 2018, 2019; MVP: 2019; B&F: 2015, 2018, 2019
10		Harry McKay	24 Dec 97	22yr	200cm	94kg	35	50	1	0	0	0	Warragul/Gippsland U18	#10 National 2015
11		Mitch McGovern	11 Oct 94	25yr	191cm	84kg	64	89	2	0	0	0	North Albany/Claremont	#43 National 2014
12		Tom De Koning	16 Jul 99	20yr	200cm	90kg	2	1	0	0	0	0	Mount Martha/Dandenong U18	#30 National 2017
13		Liam Stocker	23 Jan 00	20yr	183cm	85kg	5	0	0	0	0	0	East Sandringham/Haileybury College/Old Haileybury/Sandringham U18	#19 National 2018	Morrish: 2018
14		Liam Jones	24 Feb 91	29yr	197cm	97kg	125	84	7	0	0	0	North Hobart/Tasmania U18/Scotch College	#32 National 2008
15		Sam Docherty	17 Oct 93	26yr	184cm	84kg	92	14	6	0	0	0	Phillip Island/Gippsland U18	#12 National 2011	AA: 2017; B&F: 2016; AA40: 2016
16		Darcy Lang	21 Nov 95	24yr	183cm	75kg	63	42	0	0	0	0	Colac/Geelong U18	#16 National 2013
17		Brodie Kemp	1 May 01	18yr	193cm	89kg	0	0	0	0	0	0	Echuca/Geelong Grammar/Bendigo U18	#17 National 2019
18		Sam Walsh	2 Jul 00	19yr	184cm	77kg	22	6	6	0	0	0	St Joseph's/Geelong U18	#1 National 2018	Rising Star: 2019; AFLPA 1st: 2019; Larke: 2018
19		Eddie Betts	26 Nov 86	33yr	173cm	73kg	316	600	42	0	0	0	Templestowe/Calder U18	#3 Pre-Season 2004	AA: 2015, 2016, 2017; AA40: 2011, 2012, 2014
20		Lachie Plowman	11 Sep 94	25yr	192cm	90kg	94	1	0	0	0	0	Macedon/Calder U18	#3 National 2012
21		Jack Martin	29 Jan 95	25yr	185cm	71kg	97	81	6	0	0	0	Geraldton Towns/Claremont	#1 Mini-Draft 2012
22		Caleb Marchbank	7 Dec 96	23yr	193cm	90kg	48	0	0	0	0	0	Benalla/Murray U18	#6 National 2014
23		Jacob Weitering	23 Nov 97	22yr	195cm	90kg	76	10	1	0	0	0	Mount Martha/Mount Eliza/Peninsula Grammar/Dandenong U18	#1 National 2015
24		Nic Newman	15 Jan 93	27yr	187cm	82kg	51	14	3	0	0	0	Mornington/Dandenong U18/Frankston	#35 Rookie 2014
25		Zac Fisher	15 Jun 98	21yr	175cm	68kg	55	21	0	0	0	0	Guildford Grammar/Perth	#27 National 2016
26		Harrison Macreadie	11 Apr 98	22yr	196cm	89kg	9	0	0	0	0	0	Henty/NSW-ACT U18/Greater Western Sydney (NEAFL)/Western Sydney University	#47 National 2016
27		Marc Pittonet	3 Jun 96	23yr	202cm	101kg	7	0	0	0	0	0	Xavier College/Oakleigh U18	#50 National 2014
28		David Cuningham	30 Mar 97	23yr	183cm	79kg	25	14	0	0	0	0	Boroondara Hawks JFC/Canterbury/Melbourne Grammar/Oakleigh U18	#23 National 2015
29		Cameron Polson	11 Mar 98	22yr	177cm	76kg	16	4	0	0	0	0	Haileybury College/Sandringham U18	#59 National 2016
30		Charlie Curnow	3 Feb 97	23yr	191cm	95kg	58	77	6	0	0	0	Torquay/Geelong College/Geelong U18	#12 National 2015
31		Tom Williamson	12 Dec 98	21yr	189cm	81kg	17	1	0	0	0	0	Ararat/North Ballarat U18	#61 National 2016
32		Jack Newnes	24 Feb 93	27yr	184cm	81kg	155	55	3	0	0	0	Ivanhoe/Marcellin College/Northern U18	#37 National 2011
33		Sam Ramsay	21 Mar 01	19yr	180cm	72kg	0	0	0	0	0	0	Gisborne/Maribyrnong College/Calder U18	#47 National 2019
34		Sam Philp	4 Aug 01	18yr	185cm	80kg	0	0	0	0	0	0	St Mary's (NFL)/Loyola College/Northern U18	#20 National 2019
35		Ed Curnow	7 Nov 89	30yr	182cm	84kg	165	36	12	0	0	0	Modewarre/Geelong College/Geelong U18	#40 Rookie 2007
36	r	Josh Honey	17 Oct 01	18yr	184cm	79kg	0	0	0	0	0	0	Keilor/Maribyrnong College/Western U18	#3 Rookie 2019
37		Ben Silvagni	7 May 00	19yr	196cm	86kg	0	0	0	0	0	0	Greythorn/Xavier College/Oakleigh U18	#70 National 2018
38		Finbar O'Dwyer	24 Jul 00	19yr	188cm	72kg	0	0	0	0	0	0	Yarrawonga/Xavier College/Murray U18	#66 National 2018
39	r	Fraser Phillips	15 May 01	18yr	186cm	71kg	0	0	0	0	0	0	Warragul/St Paul's Grammar (Warragul)/Gippsland U18	#18 Rookie 2019
40	r	Michael Gibbons	15 May 95	24yr	174cm	70kg	21	16	0	0	0	0	Lavington/Murray U18/Williamstown	SSP 2018	Liston: 2016, 2018
41		Levi Casboult	15 Mar 90	30yr	199cm	100kg	124	132	0	0	0	0	Beaconsfield/Dandenong U18	#44 Rookie 2009
43		Will Setterfield	5 Feb 98	22yr	190cm	80kg	20	6	1	0	0	0	Scots (Albury)/NSW-ACT U18/Caulfield Grammar/Sandringham U18	#5 National 2016
44	b	Matt Owies	19 Mar 97	23yr	185cm	89kg	0	0	0	0	0	0	Basketball	Unregistered 2018
45	r	Hugh Goddard	24 Aug 96	23yr	196cm	94kg	12	1	0	0	0	0	Geelong Amateur/Melbourne Grammar/Geelong U18	#21 National 2014
46	r	Matthew Cottrell	29 Feb 00	20yr	181cm	72kg	0	0	0	0	0	0	Pearcedale/Dandenong U18	SSP 2018

 

[footyfan1978]

Jeremy Cameron would be one of the first players picked for Victoria, but even though he was raised at Dartmoor (Vic) I'm almost certain he was born over the border at Mt Gambier. He probably spent the first couple of days of his life there, then the parents headed home to Dartmoor, so classing him as anything other than a Victorian makes no sense

He was drafted from Ballarat under 18's. He'd play for Big V if state of origin rules apply.
Fund raiser game may not strictly stick to such rules...

 

[35Daicos]

He was drafted from Ballarat under 18's. He'd play for Big V is state of origin rules apply.

As he absolutely should! The old rules (when last "seen in action") covered where a player "resided" for the majority of the time between the ages of 10 and 17. So even if a player was going to school in another state for quite a few years (and effectively living there) it didn't matter, it came down to where the family home was.

Edit: This is how the rule was worded back in 1998 (from AFL '98): STATE OF ORIGIN ELIGIBILITY RULE
The eligibility rule for State of Origin football adopted by the AFL Commission in 1993 provides for a player to be tied to the State or Territory in which he resided for the majority of the time between the ages of 10 and 17.

I'm pretty sure they worked things out the same way for the 2008 game. I still work things out based on those old SoO rules with the current playing lists I keep. There is no reason why they shouldn't be using those same rules, though a case could be made perhaps for it to be changed to 10-18, since 18 is now the draft age. If it is correct that they are simply going on where the players were born (for this game) that does look rather slack to me, and they might get the odd surprise when they look into this a bit further! Also, just imagine telling the Queenslanders that they could no longer claim e.g. Nick Riewoldt (Tas), Jason Akermanis and Michael Voss (both Vic) among their all-time greats, simply because they happened to be born in another state. Ridiculous!!

 

[Ogrebait]

What current playing lists do you keep, 35Daicos?

 

[footyfan1978]

I still work things out based on those old SoO rules with the current playing lists

I do not believe there was any consistent old rules as such. Jason Dunstall playing for Victoria. Terry Daniher playing for New South Wales and Victoira etc etc. show me that even after State of Origin was invented as a concept there has never truly been a consistent way it applied. So for this coming game nothing would surprise either. But in future if they can truly have State of Origin in club pre-season it would be awesome to finally have something they stick to for ever more. I do not believe Jason Dunstall should have been playing for the Big V in 1989 and also do not believe Sydney Swans player with Vic origins should have been playing with NSW in early 90's in game at SCG against the Big V. There are no old SOO rules for mine as it seems to have never been applied in fullness to the concept.

 

[35Daicos]

I do not believe there was any consistent old rules as such. Jason Dunstall playing for Victoria. Terry Daniher playing for New South Wales and Victoira etc etc. show me that even after State of Origin was invented as a concept there has never truly been a consistent way it applied. So for this coming game nothing would surprise either. But in future if they can truly have State of Origin in club pre-season it would be awesome to finally have something they stick to for ever more. I do not believe Jason Dunstall should have been playing for the Big V in 1989 and also do not believe Sydney Swans player with Vic origins should have been playing with NSW in early 90's in game at SCG against the Big V. There are no old SOO rules for mine as it seems to have never been applied in fullness to the concept.

They certainly stuck with the same rules from 1993-99 - see added on bit in previous post. Prior to 1993 the rules were quite ridiculous, with players able to play for the state where they first played at a "senior level", so Victoria was able to play the likes of Daniher and Dunstall, WA Leon Baker and Maurice Rioli, and SA had plenty of non-locals playing for them over the years, including lots of Victorians. Tim Evans was a Tasmanian who played for Geelong then with Port Adelaide (SANFL). I think Victoria was able to play him if they wanted him, they didn't so SA picked him. Quite silly, but from 1993 the rules were tightened and actually reflected where a player had grown up and spent the majority of his "football formative years".

 

[footyfan1978]

They certainly stuck with the same rules from 1993-99

Not really a long period. I'd bet if I look I would still find holes in it. Also that period SOO was truly when trying to play mid-season as players got paid more and more, had more and more push back from clubs to pressure their best players to pull out. It is why it was no worth doing any more mid season as could not be done right. The club pre-season has always been the time to have it since players football career became their profession. This coming fund raiser game is perfect timing to get the idea finally bedded down. Looking forward to it showing a little of what is possible for rest of this decade.

 

[35Daicos]

What current playing lists do you keep, 35Daicos?

Just something I keep for my own purposes. I've copied the basic details from it into a .txt file and attached it. It just shows where all the players are actually from in terms of their SoO (to the best of my knowledge - using the old rules), not necessarily where they were recruited from.

 

[footyfan1978]

Highlights once again, 10 clubs based in Victoria is the right amount.

 

[emuboy]

I went to that Adelaide v Fitzroy game. Was very weird. They dominated the last qtr.

AFL Tables - Adelaide v Fitzroy - Sat, 20-May-1995 8:10 PM (8:40 PM) - Match Stats

afltables.com

Just looking up old games and noticed Matthew Llotd debuted v Adelaide in rd 14 1995 @ MCG... He kicked 3 goals and Essendon won by 122 points.

AFL Tables - Essendon v Adelaide - Sat, 8-Jul-1995 2:10 PM - Match Stats

afltables.com

Is this the biggest win by a player on debut?

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Richmond's Jack Dyer (Captain Blood) made his senior debut in Round 2 1931 against North Melbourne in a game that saw the Tigers thrash the Kangaroos by 168-points, 30.19-199 to 4.7-31.

At the other end of the scale, Wal Heron played his first and only game for St. Kilda against Geelong in 1899, a game where the Cats demolished St. Kilda 23.24-162 to 0.1-1. Interestingly, the Saints kicked the first point of the game, and the of the margins in the AFL/VFL that have been attained (some haven't lowest of which is 136 points) this 161 point margin is the one that hasn't come up again for the longest time, 120 years.

Andrew Thompson played his debut for the Sydney Swans in Round 8 1993, just one of two career games in a game that saw the Brisbane Bears destroy the Sydney Swans at the GABBA by 162-points, 33.21-219 to 8.9.57.

Two years earlier Fitzroy debutant Brenton Klaebe must have been wondering what he had let himself in for. Playing five games for the Lions in 1991, Klaebe's first three matches saw Fitzroy beaten by Melbourne by 131-points in Round 2 (6.13-49 to 27.18-180), by 157-points by Hawthorn in Tasmania in Round 6 (11.8-74 to 36.15-231) and by 65-points by the Brisbane Bears at the GABBA in Round 16 (15.15-105 to 26.14-170).

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Doesn't the worst margin record experienced by a debutante (or 2) belong to John Butcher and Tom Jonas? (R21 2011 and 165 points.)

Haw: 31.11.197.
PA: 4. 8 32.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Thank you, RedmanWasHere. I may have to collate the data myself but that's a much better starting point.

I'm trying to work out a snapshot of the demographics of the AFL - where they players where recruited from; percentages from each state; etc. - broken down club-by-club.

I think this is what you want but its from 2017. I have a 7 year old thread on the Port board that looks at where players come from, ie clubs as well as states and territories at

The Football Factories - stats by REH

2014 Rookie Draft - AFL officially calls this the 2015 Rookie draft. The only player taken in the PSD was a western bulldogs player Jason Tutt by carlton. pass -12- 3,21,38,39,55,64,66,69,70,72,73,74 AFL teams -17- 10,12,19,23,30,31,32,34,40,43,54,57,61,63,65,67,71 No club -2- 28,68...

www.bigfooty.com

From The Weekend Oz mid July 2017. Note this is from players listed junior clubs.

I guess if you are really keen to find out what the current situation is, take the 2017 lists and make adjustments for players traded/delisted out and those added to the lists via drafts/free agency at end of 2017, 2018 and 2019 seasons.

 

[35Daicos]

Doesn't the worst margin record experienced by a debutante (or 2) belong to John Butcher and Tom Jonas? (R21 2011 and 165 points.)

Haw: 31.11.197.
PA: 4. 8 32.

Max Hardie - St Kilda - 171 points - 1919 Rd. 12
South Melbourne 29.15 (189) vs. St Kilda 2.6 (18)

AFL Tables - Game Records

afltables.com

Two North Melbourne debutants were in a 168 point loss to Richmond in 1931 (Jack Dyer's debut game).

Butcher and Jonas come next (165 points).

The AFL Season Guide doesn't seem to have a section for biggest wins and losses for players on debut, but it would be a worthwhile addition.