Autopsy Steele - 200 ,

[SaintsofSteel]

FWIW
I agree with a lot of your sentiments.

I think he tries to play new age but the moment things turn to crap he turns back to old habits which just don't work in todays game.

All coaches flood and shut down the game when their team starts bleeding. If we are honest we have holes all over ground list wise so RTB tries to plug holes. Our biggest weakness now is our inability to take enough contested marks forward of centre.

Yesterday Richmond were intercepting everything hence I gather he asked the team to move the ball across the half forward line until a pass become available.

The trouble being that our ball movement was that slow Richmond had all 18 players sitting in our F50. It wasnt until he moved Nas back to half back when we finally got some speed on the ball and had more chances to score.

Most coaches game plans are not that different, its the positional moves where Lyon surprises.

 

[BigMonty]

We won the game due to some individual bits of brilliance by Naz Sincs and Hall. The one touch at speed open the game up and we scored as a result.
3 wins is 3 wins. Beat an improving Ess it will be 4 on 4. You can only beat what is out there. Rich just lacked the polish that we did when required. Vaustln is our Wilkie Taranto our Steele, Prestia McIntosh Nank and Hopper and are all good footballers so they have some talent but they are meat potatoes types.

They flooded and we kicked it to the big blokes.....their big blokes. No Owens really hurt us today.

Tarau what a great battle with a good player in Balta that was a highlight.

A lack of Pou and Wilson impact a low light. Garcia and Boxshall did some good/many things,

I like Hammer in the side as you know what you are going to get pity he could not play forward as there would have been more ground balls and a few sore tall Tigers.

If you seriously look at the ladder we are better than those below us and improving on those above us.

Being so short up front means flooding is a way to beat us, hust Richmond were not clean enough on the rebound to hurt us.....good teams would have won that game by 6 goals and there is sadly SFA we can do hence why we are trying to recruit ready made players in a tall back Alir and a ruck TDK.

Allows Marshall to go forward and be a target more often if King is on the side lines. Allows Hammer to play forward if Alie and Howard are available blah blah blah.

On RTB, Sheedy was hated by some players didn't stop him being a great coach. If Enright who is senior coach in waiting didn't think RTB was any good he would be gonski.

Watching to see where he and Naz go at end of year will be as good as indication as anything about playing groups belief in RTB and where we are going as a club.

 

[Murraj1966]

At the end of the day better teams than us have lost to Richmond this year whereas we've at least knocked them off twice.

2x key forwards and that game is a 6+ goal win with the amount of i50's we flubbed to nobody or to Pou/Higgins getting dominated in the air

 

[AirWinmar]

Pretty ordinary situation if Lyon can't get his team up and firing against lesser opposition..no excuse for the WCE loss, or the lifeless three quarters against Melbourne, regardless of the freak last quarter, then scratching home against North, and yesterday's game looking more like a country social game rather than two AFL teams on a perfect day at the MCG. I reckon Hastie would have pulled in a couple of marks in the forward line compared to the unfit stationary Pou.

I have seen ammos games with better skills, obviously under a lot less pressure. I just hope we are doing a lot of skills work in the off-season. Even Sincs is missing kicks. We put out a younger side than Tigers so expecting us to run a training drill over them may be unrealistic

 

[Saints TV]

Another week, another blood-pressure test for the Saints faithful - what stood out to you?... what did you take from the win?

 

[saintbill]

im not disagreeing with you that the gameplan was balls, im just saying ur a turd

Fair enough, now we are getting somewhere

 

[Southeastsainter]

Worst game I think I’ve ever been to live. Was happy we won in the end, but wow wasn’t one to advertise the great game.

3 in a row now, albeit against opposition that aren’t strong. I see lots of comments about us ruining our draft position. It is what it is, I think we’ve got plenty of games into youth this season.

Stoked with Tauru (last year we “stuffed” our draft position), Travaglia hasn’t shown as much but still think he will end up a solid player.

Be shocked if we lost to Essendon, if we can somehow beat GWS that’s 5 in a row to end the season. I’d rather finish the season on a high with vibes up and launch into next season.

NAS what a player he’s become, it’s a damn shame he’s more than likely leaving. Hope we get a haul for him if he does indeed leave.

Pou clearly isn’t right, I’d give him the last 2 weeks off and get yourself right for pre season.

Keep NAS, TDK & Aleer arriving. King & Pou stay fit, we are very likely to play finals in my opinion. Lots of ifs and buts, but we are definitely on the up. If NAS goes oh well, we can’t relocate to Adelaide.

 

[sasaint]

When you need to rebuild this is a problem. This means never getting access to early draft picks, unlike the Northern states which have rich exclusive picks from local academies. This is the recipe for ongoing frustration of being a team going nowhere. Every other Victorian team know how to play the AFL game. Put your stars on ice when the chase for the flag is over and get the kids in for a run.

 

[BrutThough]

Been lost in the shuffle but what an outstanding last quarter from Steele

 

[Ricmel]

Some of our slow play today reminded me of the Carlton game. Especially when we’re shorter we need to go faster not slower.

Also I’m done with Ross tbh. He, SoS and mission can go. Go and get Horse before another team does. If Naz leaves then so be it. But get a bounty for him.

Some people scoffed when I suggested looking at the coach after the Melbourne game.

Fact is, we played 3 putrid quarters in that game and only when we looked out of it did thy throw the playbook out the window and let players go for it. We have since played another 8 putrid quarters with perhaps the most unattractive game plan in the AFL.

Why are we playing "go slow" footy in dead rubbers, where wins only make our draft position worse and we are completely missing the opportunity to see what this team can do when let off the leash a bit.

In my view, RTB knows only one way and it is not working. Coaching staff needs a shake up.

 

[Suburbanhack]

Good to see a few supporters are finally beginning to apply a little bit of blowtorch to rtb. He’s come away mostly unscathed from a woeful season for the club. I can imagine the highlights packages at the presentation will be quite dour and awkward to watch until the miracle game when the crowd will all go off.
He’s quite safe though for now. Haven’t heard one single criticism from the afl media yet so all good.

A few weeks back he copped it well and truly from Barrett, Cornes and Hodge pretty much in consecutive days. Not exactly a meeting of the minds with that lot but he has not been immune from criticism.

While at times it has been ugly, he has had to cobble together a forward line so naturally scoring has been a challenge. Having your full forward and full back out for the entire year and Pou missing most of the season has played havoc with the structure. In a perfect world we have King as the spearhead with Caminiti the 2nd tall and Owens, Pou and Sharman in support roles. Yesterday it was Sharman or bust and all season he has drawn the best defender. Caminiti has been admirable as the tallest defender but for mine looks more comfortable as a forward.

 

[beside the seaside]

When you need to rebuild this is a problem. This means never getting access to early draft picks, unlike the Northern states which have rich exclusive picks from local academies. This is the recipe for ongoing frustration of being a team going nowhere. Every other Victorian team know how to play the AFL game. Put your stars on ice when the chase for the flag is over and get the kids in for a run.

Look at some of the recent sides to get into the eight, Hawthorn and Adelaide. A lot of mid table finishes before making the move. Alternatively North have been down for like a decade.

Just not sure it's as important as many think.

 

[SG34]

We won the game due to some individual bits of brilliance by Naz Sincs and Hall. The one touch at speed open the game up and we scored as a result.
3 wins is 3 wins. Beat an improving Ess it will be 4 on 4. You can only beat what is out there. Rich just lacked the polish that we did when required. Vaustln is our Wilkie Taranto our Steele, Prestia McIntosh Nank and Hopper and are all good footballers so they have some talent but they are meat potatoes types.

They flooded and we kicked it to the big blokes.....their big blokes. No Owens really hurt us today.

Tarau what a great battle with a good player in Balta that was a highlight.

A lack of Pou and Wilson impact a low light. Garcia and Boxshall did some good/many things,

I like Hammer in the side as you know what you are going to get pity he could not play forward as there would have been more ground balls and a few sore tall Tigers.

If you seriously look at the ladder we are better than those below us and improving on those above us.

Being so short up front means flooding is a way to beat us, hust Richmond were not clean enough on the rebound to hurt us.....good teams would have won that game by 6 goals and there is sadly SFA we can do hence why we are trying to recruit ready made players in a tall back Alir and a ruck TDK.

Allows Marshall to go forward and be a target more often if King is on the side lines. Allows Hammer to play forward if Alie and Howard are available blah blah blah.

On RTB, Sheedy was hated by some players didn't stop him being a great coach. If Enright who is senior coach in waiting didn't think RTB was any good he would be gonski.

Watching to see where he and Naz go at end of year will be as good as indication as anything about playing groups belief in RTB and where we are going as a club.

Interesting.
I wonder whether two years ago, assuming no Battle and Doogs, we’d have just swapped Hammer and Coops?
Perhaps it has been decide. Hammer is not for the forward line, period.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Look at some of the recent sides to get into the eight, Hawthorn and Adelaide. A lot of mid table finishes before making the move. Alternatively North have been down for like a decade.

Just not sure it's as important as many think.

And with a good recruiter you can get bargains later on in the draft.

Hell our best outside of Nwm yesterday was from later picks, Sinclair, Marshall, Sharman, Wilkie, Garcia and even Wood

 

[littlecreatures]

Look at some of the recent sides to get into the eight, Hawthorn and Adelaide. A lot of mid table finishes before making the move. Alternatively North have been down for like a decade.

Just not sure it's as important as many think.

We’ve been stuck in the messy middle for a while. Haven’t finished bottom 4 since 2018 when we finished 3rd last.

Additionally, we never built and developed a list in the first place capable of sustained success, so we’ve just been papering over the cracks.

Now we’re ripping off the band aid with the list and a lot don’t necessarily like the natural consequences of that either.

 

[BrutThough]

So what I'm understanding is that;

Billings + McCartin + Aaron Francis (hypothetically if we hadn't traded for Carlisle) are better then Nas + Phillipou + Tauru.

 

[Saintbloke]

Some people scoffed when I suggested looking at the coach after the Melbourne game.

Fact is, we played 3 putrid quarters in that game and only when we looked out of it did thy throw the playbook out the window and let players go for it. We have since played another 8 putrid quarters with perhaps the most unattractive game plan in the AFL.

Why are we playing "go slow" footy in dead rubbers, where wins only make our draft position worse and we are completely missing the opportunity to see what this team can do when let off the leash a bit.

In my view, RTB knows only one way and it is not working. Coaching staff needs a shake up.

This is the 3rd season of Lyon as coach and we have stood still and gone slightly backwards in that time, playing an uninspiring brand of football. It's pro sport, and he would be gone after that result in most other sports. Nothing against the guy, but he is not the answer.

 

[Minga]

idk, I feel like it’s all going as planned tbh, keep the faith. 2027 is judgement year.

That doesn’t mean flag, it just means starting to see the list build enter into full flight, as the kids reach a critical mass of development.

 

[sasaint]

Maybe if we had another genuine forward and not a career third string ruck in Heath that people were claiming was the reason to rip up any deal with TDK a week ago.

We would have been just fine.

Yes our ball use is an issue. But they flooded back and that is what made us play slow. But how in the 1st and 4th quarter we scored at an okay rate and hit free targets.

Unfortunately you can’t play that way at this level for 4 quarters. You need useable big talls to clunk one themselves or bring it to ground.

You wonder whether that obvious need will change our draft strategy, or our possible negotiation for players if Nas chooses to leave. The presumption is that we were looking to build up more mids, but maybe we need to go for more talls at either end now???

 

[Miha]

You wonder whether that obvious need will change our draft strategy, or our possible negotiation for players if Nas chooses to leave. The presumption is that we were looking to build up more mids, but maybe we need to go for more talls at either end now???

Absolutely need more talls. We could MAYBE try and trade back into this draft for Ludowkye and maybe bring another on the cheap?

 

[StFly]

This is the 3rd season of Lyon as coach and we have stood still and gone slightly backwards in that time, playing an uninspiring brand of football. It's pro sport, and he would be gone after that result in most other sports. Nothing against the guy, but he is not the answer.

Wouldn't say we've gone backwards.

So lets say 2020, since that was Covid years and we made 6th.

We were doing SFA, a lot of what we gained was due to cheapies out the back and shortened quarters and the whole "we got into a facility and others didn't, lol" sort of set up that was just unsustainable. Tigers would bundle us out in the semi to win that flag.

2021 where Covid panicking was winding down and people got to terms with the new normal and we finish 10th as people got to go back to the stadiums and finals were shifted outside of Victoria. This is where the Dees saluted.

You then enter the speculation period of lethers boys, Ratts in and out and here's RTB because we're going to 2022! Where after 3 years of pandemic protocols people went "eh, CBF" and stopped caring.

We did also as once again we're 10th as why not, let us review that shit cause we're over the stupor of covid ourselves and back in Victoria, hello RTB.

6th again, cause you know, just a bit of history repeating do dodo dododo do do do.. only this time it was GWS and not the Tigers that said sit down and STFU so Collingwood could expose the Lions as pretenders.

Last year as 12th and as you know, about half the list and several people in the footy dev left and got replaced in these past 2 years that it's still a work in progress. As the Lions only pretended to this year.

We're now 11th and kind of stable in the off field to fine tune some things, there's less drastic "we only score cause others screw up" or "we only play finals cause the world implodes" type scenarios, and have clear eyes as to how we can fine tune things.

Better turf it cause times up as it's pro sport and lets history repeat again and hope for a nuke holocaust this time to crash people back to the middle so we can have a chance on dumb luck...

 

[BigMonty]

If Dodson can repeat what he is doing in the VFL next year he gets game time in AFL with TDK and Alir with Doogs and King back we have options we did not have this year.
At the start of 25 if you would have said we would have Pou at FF effectively first game of the season, as King has not played a game all year, Moose in a pocket and Sharman Wood as the 3rd tall, with Hammer at full back Cordy and Doogs played less than 5 or so games and Keeler playing 10 games or so, Tarau playing as key at CHB we would have said give me some of what you are smoking and add to that Naz likely AA...or at least squad and Hall to be ranked in top 5 best players in AFL over last 6 weeks.... no drug is that mind bending.

Add to that 12 players have either debuted or have played 10 or so games this year under experience first RTB I think we have fared better than we could have hoped.
Seriously would you prefer to be Carlton, Ess or Melb or even Port all of whom were tipped to be in the eight.

I reckon we will look back and say this was the season where we went nowhere but built the foundation for the future top 4 contending team.
Come at me doubters and those with no faith

 

[phantom13]

Anyone who thinks RTB won't see out his contract have absolutely no idea

Its been a developing year of blooding kids and getting games into 2nd to 4th year players and we had a shocking run of injuries early on as well

Tigers showed yesterday ..... and they have done in a quite a few games this year .... that if you bring energy/effort/manic pressure you can stay in games and be competitive

Another big pre-season and our younger players will be all the better for it .... re: draft .... I would be looking to add more speed and players that can kick .... though we might only have 3 live picks

I don’t think he’s going anywhere before his contract expires at the end of 2027. We’ve clearly comitted and invested into his vision BUT I do think the sentiment of it isn’t super healthy.

It’s a year of excuses (the draw, the injuries, the youth) when almost universally in here pre season it was supposed to be about the build.

I can certainly see the vision and the plan but that’ll all count for nothing if we’re here again in 26.

Ross has 2 years left and we have to start seeing some actual improvement in wins and ladder position not just “development”

 

[bergholt]

I reckon bring in Keeler for next week and play him in Tauru's role in defence, stick Tauru up forward - he's good at making a contest even if he's very unlikely to kick a bag at this point. Keep Heath in (though that's not going to happen given he was subbed at half time) and drop Jones. Adds an extra tall and gives us some flexibility with ruck and forward and defence.

 

[Sully111]

I reckon bring in Keeler for next week and play him in Tauru's role in defence, stick Tauru up forward - he's good at making a contest even if he's very unlikely to kick a bag at this point. Keep Heath in (though that's not going to happen given he was subbed at half time) and drop Jones. Adds an extra tall and gives us some flexibility with ruck and forward and defence.

Yep. Want to give the Saints fans some hope at the end of the Season?... put Alix forward for a game and hopefully he can kick a couple.