Steele Sidebottom.

[Optimax]

Bring him in Johnsons out so try him this week collingwood is lacking in the midfield so we need to bring in some young players like him. We took the chance with Beams and he looks like a good player. So try Steely.

i would too or even barham

But why blue text?

 

[FuManchu]

Its from that set of kids and then probably blight.reed down back that our spine will come from fu.

All get game time in the seniors as well and Jmac, Sharrod, beams, cook etc have all being gievn midfield game time in the seniors as well.

Its not like we havent tried to find coverage in these positions

I know we are trying to cover them, but the fact that some of those postions that are still up for grabs in this year of 'having a crack' sort of tells me that we are a long ways off.

The worst part is that, at some stage, we need to do a stocktake of what we do have and those that have failed to take the opportunity and do a clean sweep of the rubbish. But we cant afford to do it for quite a while.

Now we are stuck in the diluted draft for the next 3 years, we are stuck with what we have. Are you all that confident that who we have that havent yet put their hands up for these positions, are going to take us to the top? I see a lot of dead wood there. And I dont see much coming thru to push them out.

 

[Optimax]

Now we are stuck in the diluted draft for the next 3 years, we are stuck with what we have. Are you all that confident that who we have that havent yet put their hands up for these positions, are going to take us to the top? I see a lot of dead wood there. And I dont see much coming thru to push them out.

rusling is the only that time is running out for and thats more to do with injury then anything else

Anthony is 20/21
dawes 20/21
Reid 19/20
Trav 21/22
Brown 20/21

its not time to start cutting any of them yet, underneath we have goldsack cox reed and blight so we have a chance of devolping enough talls from that lot and no are at the cut off stage

 

[Chase the Ace]

Thomas is the only player to have walked right into our side from recent memory.

Fraser

 

[Rohan Coventry]

Fraser

If you call 8 years ago recent memory.

 

[jefffff34]

Fraser

I do believe in the game Fraser debuted, so did Davis, Adkins and Johnson.

 

[FuManchu]

rusling is the only that time is running out for and thats more to do with injury then anything else

Anthony is 20/21
dawes 20/21
Reid 19/20
Trav 21/22
Brown 20/21

its not time to start cutting any of them yet, underneath we have goldsack cox reed and blight so we have a chance of devolping enough talls from that lot and no are at the cut off stage

Its time for reid and dawes to show at least they deserve a spot on the list.

Brown needs rejigging a little, Trav needs a better game plan to stop him chasing kicks too far from goals and diminishing his already poor goalkicking. Anthony needs to become the 3rd or even 4th option so he really needs someone at FF.

But it really doesnt matter, we are stuck with them pretty much. There will be slim pickings in the next few drafts.

 

[FuManchu]

I do believe in the game Fraser debuted, so did Davis, Adkins and Johnson.

and Ukovic LOL which was sort of a debut

 

[Chase the Ace]

If you call 8 years ago recent memory.

Well my other nominations were also correct, just because you add a bit of spin to your reply doesn't mean you are correct

 

[Rohan Coventry]

Well my other nominations were also correct

Lonie, Goldsack, Beams & Clarke were all incorrect on your part.

 

[ChipDouglas]

Its time for reid and dawes to show at least they deserve a spot on the list.

Brown needs rejigging a little, Trav needs a better game plan to stop him chasing kicks too far from goals and diminishing his already poor goalkicking. Anthony needs to become the 3rd or even 4th option so he really needs someone at FF.

But it really doesnt matter, we are stuck with them pretty much. There will be slim pickings in the next few drafts.

You might want to check your facts with regards to this years draft. What makes you think there won't be plenty of good players to pick from?

 

[Chase the Ace]

Lonie, Goldsack, Beams & Clarke were all incorrect on your part.

No they weren't and no amount of Rohan's well know toying with the facts will alter that.
You are synonymous with dreaming up 'nothings' and presenting them as factual evidence - some people actually listen to you but not me I just shrug it off as your typical bullshit

 

[smiddaz123]

You might want to check your facts with regards to this years draft. What makes you think there won't be plenty of good players to pick from?

It isn't completely drained of talent, but there will be less than usual.

 

[Gone Critical]

Lonie, Goldsack, Beams & Clarke were all incorrect on your part.

Stupid argument to say because their inclusion in the team coincided with an injury means they were not promoted early as young players. They were and once in the team largely stayed there. I dont know what your aganda is in promoting all the anti MM propaganda but as least use something semi sensible

 

[Rohan Coventry]

Stupid argument to say because their inclusion in the team coincided with an injury means they were not promoted early as young players.

The point is the young players should have been played from the start. MM's traditional style of coaching will see a lesser talented favorite played in preference of a youngster that offers the side more.

It takes an injury for the youngster to be blooded, which indicates Mick coaches for the now, rather for the future.

 

[Gone Critical]

This thread has been hijacked a little by the naysayers , so be it

A few of you need to get a grip and drop a bit of the pessimism. FFS Cloke is a young KP forward still. He won a B&F at CHF at 20 in a team finishing 4th. Last year carried the forward line in absense of Rocca and still a strong season. Less than good 1st 3 rounds and people are starting to write him off in that role.

Dawes Reid Anthony Rusling all less than 20 games each , all young and unproven. Anyone with sense would realise they wont all be guns but give them a chance to evolve

2009 is still v alive, we should be picking our best team each week. Kids who fill that criteria will get a game. There is no conspiracy theory keeping Stanley out and "old favorites " in. Cook should be 1st in this week on form unless JMAc in available as he looked vvv good in 1st 1/2 yday.

 

[Chase the Ace]

The point is the young players should have been played from the start. MM's traditional style of coaching will see a lesser talented favorite played in preference of a youngster that offers the side more.

It takes an injury for the youngster to be blooded, which indicates Mick coaches for the now, rather for the future.

Oh really, then please go on coach, tell us what else should have been done.
Oh and could you post your AFL coaching record for us to view, I'm sure some would like to look at it - you do have one don't you Rohan?

 

[Chase the Ace]

This thread has been hijacked a little by the naysayers , so be it

A few of you need to get a grip and drop a bit of the pessimism. FFS Cloke is a young KP forward still. He won a B&F at CHF at 20 in a team finishing 4th. Last year carried the forward line in absense of Rocca and still a strong season. Less than good 1st 3 rounds and people are starting to write him off in that role.

Dawes Reid Anthony Rusling all less than 20 games each , all young and unproven. Anyone with sense would realise they wont all be guns but give them a chance to evolve

2009 is still v alive, we should be picking our best team each week. Kids who fill that criteria will get a game. There is no conspiracy theory keeping Stanley out and "old favorites " in. Cook should be 1st in this week on form unless JMAc in available as he looked vvv good in 1st 1/2 yday.

Well said

 

[Rohan Coventry]

.
Oh and could you post your AFL coaching record for us to view, I'm sure some would like to look at it - you do have one don't you Rohan?

Are you one of those people at games who says to supporters, "I don't see you getting a kick out there" ?

It's fair to say we've concluded with facts that Mick plays honest limited skill battlers over quality kids. It's also fair to say that Mick hasn't landed a flag in his 9 years here, which indicates his methods haven't worked.

Terry McCrann predicted the recession & was correct. Was the comment unfounded b/c he didn't run the economy like a Peter Costello?

The fact that you play the man indicates that you can't debate the issues.

 

[FuManchu]

You might want to check your facts with regards to this years draft. What makes you think there won't be plenty of good players to pick from?

Gold Coast get 9 of the first 15 picks, so to finish lets say 4th our first pick is around 21. Not exactly an ideal way to find the cream of the crop to bolster some flagging areas.

 

[Optimax]

Gold Coast get 9 of the first 15 picks, so to finish lets say 4th our first pick is around 21. Not exactly an ideal way to find the cream of the crop to bolster some flagging areas.

Is that this year?

I think thats next years draft, this year they get first choice of the 17yo that arnt eligible this year TRS/VV will tell us exactly

 

[FuManchu]

Is that this year?

I think thats next years draft, this year they get first choice of the 17yo that arnt eligible this year TRS/VV will tell us exactly

You're right next year

I'll have to dig up what they get this year

edit: 2009 NAB AFL Draft it will have the capacity to sign a dozen 17-year-olds born in January-April 1992.

 

[kevind]

I know we are trying to cover them, but the fact that some of those postions that are still up for grabs in this year of 'having a crack' sort of tells me that we are a long ways off.

The worst part is that, at some stage, we need to do a stocktake of what we do have and those that have failed to take the opportunity and do a clean sweep of the rubbish. But we cant afford to do it for quite a while.

Now we are stuck in the diluted draft for the next 3 years, we are stuck with what we have. Are you all that confident that who we have that havent yet put their hands up for these positions, are going to take us to the top? I see a lot of dead wood there. And I dont see much coming thru to push them out.

You are probably right. It is only a matter of opinion but-

Beams- Excellent prospect. Only conern is how much he can improve

McCarthy- Excellent prospect. I think we really need him in the side right now

Sidebottom- Appears to have the footy smarts, but will pace stop him from being a top AFL player? Too difficult to call

Wellingham- Has some ability but too likely to drift out of a game for long periods. May be mental issues. I doubt that he will make it.

Reid- Lots of athletic ability and leads well as a forward but is such a terrible kick that we should never have been drafted him. Terrible pick for a No.8

Nathan Brown- Only real ability he has shown is as a low possession negative backman like Presti. Unlike Presti, he is not particulary good winning contested ball one on one. A stint up forward may help him as he would have a chance to make the play, rather than react to it. Too early to make a definite call, but needs to improve a fair bit over the next 2 years

Dawes- I was a fan late last year after a great game in the VFL at Geelong and then reasonable AFL form. Like most of our tall players, he seems to struggle taking contested marks. I think Dawes will be the long term FF but I don't have the same confidence about him as last year

Wood- One rule in recruiting should be "Never recruit players who are poor kicks" and another rule should be "Never recruit ruckmen who have no physical presence".

Stanley- Poor disposal, too slow. Simply not good enough for AFL.

Cook- Only chance to make it at AFL level is as a dour tagger

Barham- Has pace and zip but his disposal will always prevent him from making it at AFL level

Anthony- I don't think he will make it as a FF. Good on the lesser players but will struggle against the top FBs. Needs to be tried in defence, possible CHB for a time . I see his real strength for the team as a 'swingman'. Or as the 3rd tall forward. Not as the FF

Cloke- Really concerned about Travis. Struggles to take contested marks and his kicking for goal is very 'iffy'. Can't agree with posters who suggest we play him deeper as that will only expose his 2 deficiencies even more. If his poor form as a forward continues, he may be able become a CHB, where the penetration of his kicking could be a weapon. Only trouble with that theory, is who the hell do we use as KF????

Rusling- 19 goals from 17 games as a FF, and injured on almost a permanent basis. Will be a miracle if he becomes a good, consistent player for us.

Shannon Cox- One of those players who divides supporters. Has good run and carry from the backline and skilled in all areas of the game. But also lacks accountability and doesn't go hard enough at the ball or at the man with the ball. I am a fan of Shannon's but do agree his critics have a point. Long term future is very hard to predict.

Thomas- Dale is a very good AFL player. Will he ever become an elite AFL player? I doubt it as a midfielder, but as a small forward, yes.

Pendleberry- A bit like Dale Thomas. Will he become elite, like a Judd or Ablett? The one thing I think that will prevent him becoming elite is the lack of a killer punch ie. that burst of speed to break lines, elite kicking skills ect

Goldsack- Liked him in his first year, but seems to have gone backwards at a rapid rate. Has lots of goals kicked on him and often gets into trouble as he is not a one touch player.Doubt he will make it.

Dick- Has shown signs and you have to love his enthusiasm for the game. His return to AFL in the last few weeks has been odd to say the least. One of his strengths in 2007 seemed to be his kicking, but in the past 2 games it has been a weakness. I would think he will make it at AFL level if he manages to put on a little more weight without losing his pace.

Marty Clarke- Still deveolping his knowledge of the game. Don't think he will ever be elite but should be a good AFL player as long as we can stop him returning to Ireland

Corrie- Fair enough he was a pick 94 or something. The thing that makes me angry is, so was Stephen King the year before when we desperately needed a ruckman. Corrie will never make it at AFL level

Rounds- Have not seen him play

Blight- Heard he is homesick and wants to be cleared back to a Perth side


Well Fu , that's 23 of the younger players our future is based upon. I agree with the call to replace MM at season's end and hopefully that will mean a coach with a different game plan of more direct play. Although looking at the deficiencies in the current list, I doubt if any other coach could actually get better results.

Looking at the list, the 2006 draft could either be a blessing or a disaster for us. With the form and deficiencies of Reid, Nathan Brown's current struggles and the uncertainty of Dawes it is beginning to look like the latter.

One thing for sure, if Beams, McCarthy and Sidebottom don't become elite players we are not going to win a premiership any time soon.

 

[ChipDouglas]

Gold Coast get 9 of the first 15 picks, so to finish lets say 4th our first pick is around 21. Not exactly an ideal way to find the cream of the crop to bolster some flagging areas.

You don't seam to have a firm grasp about the draft in 2009 which makes me question your other observations expressed today. FYI Gold Coast don't have any picks in this years draft. Like I originally said to you, do some research, read more widely and then some of your purported facts might actually be that.

 

[Gone Critical]

You are probably right. It is only a matter of opinion but-

Beams- Excellent prospect. Only conern is how much he can improve

McCarthy- Excellent prospect. I think we really need him in the side right now

Sidebottom- Appears to have the footy smarts, but will pace stop him from being a top AFL player? Too difficult to call

Wellingham- Has some ability but too likely to drift out of a game for long periods. May be mental issues. I doubt that he will make it.

Reid- Lots of athletic ability and leads well as a forward but is such a terrible kick that we should never have been drafted him. Terrible pick for a No.8

Nathan Brown- Only real ability he has shown is as a low possession negative backman like Presti. Unlike Presti, he is not particulary good winning contested ball one on one. A stint up forward may help him as he would have a chance to make the play, rather than react to it. Too early to make a definite call, but needs to improve a fair bit over the next 2 years

Dawes- I was a fan late last year after a great game in the VFL at Geelong and then reasonable AFL form. Like most of our tall players, he seems to struggle taking contested marks. I think Dawes will be the long term FF but I don't have the same confidence about him as last year

Wood- One rule in recruiting should be "Never recruit players who are poor kicks" and another rule should be "Never recruit ruckmen who have no physical presence".

Stanley- Poor disposal, too slow. Simply not good enough for AFL.

Cook- Only chance to make it at AFL level is as a dour tagger

Barham- Has pace and zip but his disposal will always prevent him from making it at AFL level

Anthony- I don't think he will make it as a FF. Good on the lesser players but will struggle against the top FBs. Needs to be tried in defence, possible CHB for a time . I see his real strength for the team as a 'swingman'. Or as the 3rd tall forward. Not as the FF

Cloke- Really concerned about Travis. Struggles to take contested marks and his kicking for goal is very 'iffy'. Can't agree with posters who suggest we play him deeper as that will only expose his 2 deficiencies even more. If his poor form as a forward continues, he may be able become a CHB, where the penetration of his kicking could be a weapon. Only trouble with that theory, is who the hell do we use as KF????

Rusling- 19 goals from 17 games as a FF, and injured on almost a permanent basis. Will be a miracle if he becomes a good, consistent player for us.

Shannon Cox- One of those players who divides supporters. Has good run and carry from the backline and skilled in all areas of the game. But also lacks accountability and doesn't go hard enough at the ball or at the man with the ball. I am a fan of Shannon's but do agree his critics have a point. Long term future is very hard to predict.

Thomas- Dale is a very good AFL player. Will he ever become an elite AFL player? I doubt it as a midfielder, but as a small forward, yes.

Pendleberry- A bit like Dale Thomas. Will he become elite, like a Judd or Ablett? The one thing I think that will prevent him becoming elite is the lack of a killer punch ie. that burst of speed to break lines, elite kicking skills ect

Goldsack- Liked him in his first year, but seems to have gone backwards at a rapid rate. Has lots of goals kicked on him and often gets into trouble as he is not a one touch player.Doubt he will make it.

Dick- Has shown signs and you have to love his enthusiasm for the game. His return to AFL in the last few weeks has been odd to say the least. One of his strengths in 2007 seemed to be his kicking, but in the past 2 games it has been a weakness. I would think he will make it at AFL level if he manages to put on a little more weight without losing his pace.

Marty Clarke- Still deveolping his knowledge of the game. Don't think he will ever be elite but should be a good AFL player as long as we can stop him returning to Ireland

Corrie- Fair enough he was a pick 94 or something. The thing that makes me angry is, so was Stephen King the year before when we desperately needed a ruckman. Corrie will never make it at AFL level

Rounds- Have not seen him play

Blight- Heard he is homesick and wants to be cleared back to a Perth side


Well Fu , that's 23 of the younger players our future is based upon. I agree with the call to replace MM at season's end and hopefully that will mean a coach with a different game plan of more direct play. Although looking at the deficiencies in the current list, I doubt if any other coach could actually get better results.

Looking at the list, the 2006 draft could either be a blessing or a disaster for us. With the form and deficiencies of Reid, Nathan Brown's current struggles and the uncertainty of Dawes it is beginning to look like the latter.

One thing for sure, if Beams, McCarthy and Sidebottom don't become elite players we are not going to win a premiership any time soon.

Amazingly negative summary of our list

Apart from Beams and McCarthy who you give unqualified praise to and have only played 8 games between them the rest of the list is either condemned with faint praise or written off

You seem a classic blue sky then burn man.

Beams and J MAc are all blue sky currently, good debuts but nothing substantial to judge them on yet so you only give them upside and will no doubt turn on them a little further down the track if they show any deficiencies in their game

The rest seem to amount to nothing much even though all their careers are embryonic or still early. I am not going to go through each player but a few examples

N Brown Great debut season that understandably trailed off a little. Less than great 1st THREE rounds in a position that is generally considered v difficult to master and apprenticeships traditionally take seasons to complete. But you would have him written off already

Cloke B&F 07, Main forward 08 and still good season, poor start this year and suddenly the guy who in my opinion is our most important player and forward needs a career change as a backman

Pendles Awesome 1st 3 years. In the top few young midfielders in the game. All you seem to want is to hang question marks on him. What happened to a bit of hope and expectation

The list goes on

Not every one on your list will make it of course bu geez I feel soory for you having such a large half empty glass