Stephen Hill first impressions

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You dont seem to understand the terms inside and outside midfielders.
All those players are OUTSIDE midfielders.They arent game breakers, and they wont be able to change a game within 5 minutes. Palmer is an inside midfielder because he wins his own ball. He is probably the only consistent one in your squad and he COULD become a game breaker if he improves his kicking. If you want to contend for a flag, you can't have a team full of outside midfielders or you will be smashed. And Schammer? Okay he is going good, but what happens to him when the pressure is on? You dont have the depth of inside midfielders, while you have plenty of outside midfielders. Its the reason why your team can't make most of Sandiland's dominance in the ruck.

On the flip side we have plenty of inside midfielders and we lack depth in our outside midfielders, which isnt a problem because in every draft you can pick up speedy outside midfielders at around the 20-50 pick range.

We wont find out which team has the better future for atleast another year or two. So anything said right now is just an opinion and not fact.
Do you realise that the elite are both?
C Judd found his own ball at the same time had no problems carrying the ball.

With the eagles I see a whole group of either inside outside mids (Mainly inside). Very one dimensional players who I have no doubt would look good if you still had Judd and Cousins, but you don't.

Hill will in time prove to be both.

Mundy has taken great leaps to being both, however I agree has some way to go.

Suban hasn't really been given the opportunity, so but time is on his side.
 

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Memories

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What of Hill so far have you seen to suggest he doesn't have clean hands?

There is this belief that fast players arn't inside types, from what I have seen of Hill his hands are extremely clean and he has the tenacity to play an inside role.

Suban seems to be more of a recieved, but again we are two games in.

Where does Debore fit in?
Look, Hill has the chance to be decent from the few positives I have seen of him, but without the Palmer/Ablet/Bartel/Judd/Black types in there winning the ball we are going to be screwed as a team. Hill isn't a Palmer type player that wins a LOT of the ball. For Palmer to come into our team as a rookie, get the hardest tag and average ~24 disposals show you that he knows how to win the ball, just like the other players I mentioned.

I will guarantee it Hill will never be in the same league as Palmer, he will never be able to do what Palmer does just like Headland never has. On the other hand Palmer may not be able to do what Hill can do, so you do need both types of players, it's just that without many of the Palmers you are screwed.

To think we have these youngsters in our team that will magically turn into Palmer type players is ridiculous, we have none. Schammer may fill some of that hole, provided he keeps with his improvement, but we still need another 2-3. We have none coming up, and we should have used the last draft to get them. Not forward pockets and small defenders. I don't mind getting Hill provided we got the other types of midfielders we need but we didn't get them and it's just stupid recruitment.
 

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Do you realise that the elite are both?
C Judd found his own ball at the same time had no problems carrying the ball.

With the eagles I see a whole group of either inside outside mids (Mainly inside). Very one dimensional players who I have no doubt would look good if you still had Judd and Cousins, but you don't.

Hill will in time prove to be both.

Mundy has taken great leaps to being both, however I agree has some way to go.

Suban hasn't really been given the opportunity, so but time is on his side.
Yes which is my main point, inside midfielders are the most important for a midfield that is rebuilding. Elite inside midfielders can play both roles, while outside midfielders rarely can. You dont have many inside midfielders, you have plenty of outside midfielders. We are the reverse.

I agree we need more line breaking speed players but that's what we specifically targeted in our last draft. Most of the players you see playing now wont get a game in about 2 years time. Guys like Masten, Ebert, Kerr, Butler, Swift, Shuey and so forth will be there, and most of them have that line-breaking ability. So that's why we went with Naita. Our midfield will take around 2-4 years to shape and actually start contending with other top midfields if the development goes to plan.
 

Memories

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It's quite bizarre from an Eagles perspective to be slamming Suban I'd be pretty happy to have him in our backline.
I wasn't slamming Suban, he has been fairly decent in the backline. People are confusing me being angry with our incorrect selections in the draft (not targetting midfielders) with me being unhappy with the players we end up with. My point is it doesn't matter if you draft a Scarlett if you miss a Judd.
 

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Look, Hill has the chance to be decent from the few positives I have seen of him, but without the Palmer/Ablet/Bartel/Judd/Black types in there winning the ball we are going to be screwed as a team. Hill isn't a Palmer type player that wins a LOT of the ball. For Palmer to come into our team as a rookie, get the hardest tag and average ~24 disposals show you that he knows how to win the ball, just like the other players I mentioned.

I will guarantee it Hill will never be in the same league as Palmer, he will never be able to do what Palmer does just like Headland never has. On the other hand Palmer may not be able to do what Hill can do, so you do need both types of players, it's just that without many of the Palmers you are screwed.

To think we have these youngsters in our team that will magically turn into Palmer type players is ridiculous, we have none. Schammer may fill some of that hole, provided he keeps with his improvement, but we still need another 2-3. We have none coming up, and we should have used the last draft to get them. Not forward pockets and small defenders. I don't mind getting Hill provided we got the other types of midfielders we need but we didn't get them and it's just stupid recruitment.
This man knows his stuff.:thumbsu:
 
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I wasn't slamming Suban, he has been fairly decent in the backline. People are confusing me being angry with our incorrect selections in the draft (not targetting midfielders) with me being unhappy with the players we end up with. My point is it doesn't matter if you draft a Scarlett if you miss a Judd.
True.:thumbsu: And we are obviously missing him now.:(
 

Eagle87

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Learn how to spell the bloke's name FFS.
Me fail English?
Your contributions to the thread are acknowledged and appreciated! :thumbsu:

A spelling/grammer nazi who contributes absolutely nothing about football, is always welcome on a forum discussing football.

Well done.
 

Clay Davis

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Masten sucked.

Ebert wasnt great either.

Of course Swift, Shuey, Selwood, Butler, Smith, Natanui, Houlihan, Schofield, Cockie, McNamara & Waters didnt play.

Which up and coming guns have you got on the sidelines?

Of course you guys wouldnt be suggesting that Masten cant play on the back of 1 game would you? I mean that would be hypocritical.... so you wouldnt go there.

NB: Masten was a complete passenger today, disagraceful, had only 8 touches - of course Hill is averaging 7 .....
That's the point. I think Masten will be good. But you can't judge a player on a minute amount of games.

The fact is that none of us know what players will be. Plenty thought Palmer would be an outside midfielder, like Chad Fletcher. But it hasn't turned out that way.
 

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It was pathetic in its nature because you had no other intention on a thread about a Freo player than to insult Fremantle and the Fremantle supporters. I honestly don't give a second thought to Masten or any West Coast players, if you believe that or not I don't care. I find on a week your team wins the need to insult an opposition team (not on bay 13, which is expected) pathetic and your insecurities laughable.
Ah, so pointing out hipocisy is an insult now? More of an observation if you ask me.
Hmm, and the post when i said hill will be a good player, needs time and will at worst will be a handy HBFer was such a vicious insult too wasn't it?
Beacon of wisdom you are.
 

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beatlesmith

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Let me get this straight, sabre says that we can't judge guys like naitanui and swift because they haven't played any games, but we can judge Hill, who has played 2 games, in which he played poorly and was nowhere to be seen, making predictions of him being elite?
Wow Sabre, wow. Aren't you just a great poster, let alone mod.
 

Richo83

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From an outside perspective I find the Hill choice perplexing. Firstly, one of the main areas freo struggle in is a) getting first possession, b) pressure of the opposition and c) kicking. I saw it first hand when freo played the tigers last year, on their home turf they were shocking. No pressure, not first to the ball and shocking disposal.

We suffer the same problems, so don't use the "lolz a tiger fan ha!" response. Here's the thing, you've got a player, he's called Daniel Rich. He's got fantastic disposal, is excellent at extracting the ball, and boy can he tackle. But you pass him up! Old news I hear from the freo fans, they're sick of being told they should have got Rich. But the fact stands, people are saying Rich is too similar to Palmer. So? If you didn't want a Palmer why did you draft him in the first place? If someone offered me two Judds or a Judd and a Mackie, I'm taking the two Judds. Both Hawthorn and Geelong have done well in picking talent even when they have too much of it. Geelong's midfield is their strength and they have rarely erred in strengthening it. They could have picked Selwood but instead chose best available. Fremantle have adequate defense, forward and ruck stocks, what they lack is midfield stocks. Rich seemed a no brainer for me, has massive scope for improvement and seems ideal for the dockers. Meh. Hill may be a great player but Rich would've been a lock pick, good early, certain to be a gun and what they needed. What more could you ask? Apparently he needed to be skinny.
 

Bradesmaen

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What some people are forgetting is that you can't just build an entire midfield in one draft. There will be plenty of time to get that ball winning ability to help Palmer, we're not going to be shooting up the ladder any time soon. Its like Memories thinks we have to have drafted 5 elite midfielders in a draft to be successful... it just doesn't happen like that. We need Hills and Palmers, not just one or the other. Might as well draft them best available each year rather than give up a chance at an elite outside in Hill for an elite inside like Rich then next year have no elite Outside mid available.
 

Memories

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What some people are forgetting is that you can't just build an entire midfield in one draft. There will be plenty of time to get that ball winning ability to help Palmer, we're not going to be shooting up the ladder any time soon. Its like Memories thinks we have to have drafted 5 elite midfielders in a draft to be successful... it just doesn't happen like that. We need Hills and Palmers, not just one or the other. Might as well draft them best available each year rather than give up a chance at an elite outside in Hill for an elite inside like Rich then next year have no elite Outside mid available.
So you think selecting ONE high risk outside midfielder like Hill is enough for us? Sure we don't have to get 5 judds in a draft, but at least trying to improve the midfield when we are so deficient should be on the recruiting board no?

The fact is no one with a decent mind can explain the picking of so many forward pocket/small defender/ruckman/defender types when our midfield is a pile of steaming crap. Not even the most biased Freo fan can come up with a good explanation without sounding silly.
 

Bradesmaen

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Last time I checked we picked Midfielder, Half Forward, Midfielder, Ruck, Defender, Midfielder, Midfielder in the draft. There are just as many important things as midfielders you know.

Our entire team bar a few players is a steaming pile of crap, we have to rebuild EVERYTHING. How hard is that for you to comprehend? You are nothing more than a pathetic troll.
 

Memories

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Last time I checked we picked Midfielder, Half Forward, Midfielder, Ruck, Defender, Midfielder, Midfielder in the draft. There are just as many important things as midfielders you know.

Our entire team bar a few players is a steaming pile of crap, we have to rebuild EVERYTHING. How hard is that for you to comprehend? You are nothing more than a pathetic troll.
Bradybunch, I notice every time you lose an argument you call someone a troll/idiot/other weak insult. I know you are only young but you need to refrain from such behaviour if you want others to like you.

Hill - Midfielder
Ballantyne - Small Forward
Suban - Small Defender (if you can only spend a part time in the midfield in the seconds don't even pretend we got him as a midfielder)
Clarke - Ruck
Michael Walters (pick 53) - Half Forward
Ben Bucovaz (pick 56) - Utility

Anything over pick 60 is hardly worth mentioning so I won't bother. As you can see, apart from Hill we got no pure midfielders in the picks that matter. Claiming a half forward can play midfield or a utility can is like saying Courtney Johns can play full forward. You can place him there but it won't do much.

You should really change your team to Adelaide Crows because you know as much about Fremantle as most South Australians.
 

Bradesmaen

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Suban is a midfielder.

oh and you are a troll. Here you are bagging your own club like there is on tomorrow. Any real supporter wouldn't be constantly having a go at their own club or even their own kids who have barely played AFL level.

You have on clue about anything on AFL whatsoever. Writing off anyone above Pick 60 is a joke, if you knew anything about AFL history you should know that.

I forgot Walters was drafted before Bucovaz, even still he is a midfield/half forward. There is nothing wrong with a half forward playing midfield. Ever seen Alan Didak or Jason Porplyzia play? Probably not because you are an ignorant know nothing.
 

Memories

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Suban is a midfielder.
Yes that's where he was playing there in the 2 games so far... no wait he was in the backline. Damn, you sure you didn't confuse the Port Adelaide games you watched with the Freo ones you did not watch?

Every draft report says he is a small defender who played stints in the midfield. Hoping you can change a defender into a midfielder worked real well for so many players in our team... Mundy was a success.... Michael Johnson was a success....

oh and you are a troll. Here you are bagging your own club like there is on tomorrow. Any real supporter wouldn't be constantly having a go at their own club or even their own kids who have barely played AFL level.
Supporting your club comes in more ways than "blindly drinking the kool aid" kid. There is no point at all posting on these boards if all you are going to say is "everything freo does is right and you are an idiot for disagreeing".

Yeah, you forget a lot of things. Though it's not forgetting if you never knew them in the first place I'm pretty sure. :confused:
 

Bradesmaen

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Ibbotson was playing CHB on Adam McPhee. Does that make him our new CHB? I don't think so. It is a learning experience. You don't pigeon hole a player just because he played there, only idiots who know nothing about Football would think that. You do realise that Matthew Pavlich started his career in the midfield and at CHB/Full back. Now he is one of the premier CHF's in the league. So, you clearly know nothing about football.

So supporting the club now means making a mockery of our players by saying they are shit after playing just two games? What an awesome supporter you are. Next time you go to the game are you going to take a banner that says "Piss of Hill, you're shit because you only got 5 possessions in your second game"? We need more supporters like you at the club to show the rest of the competition how pathetic the club is.

Disagreeing with some of the things the club does is fine, we all have problems with some selections, but actively seeking out to try and destroy the career of a player by Emailing the club saying they are shit is taking it too far and is acting like a Class A troll.


Oh no.. i forgot, how dare I forget things, thats illegal isn't it. Shame, I'll have to go to jail for forgetting something that isn't very important. What was I thinking, I'll have to give up everything I ever knew. :rolleyes:
 

Memories

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It's like shooting ducks in a gallery.

Ibbotson was playing CHB on Adam McPhee. Does that make him our new CHB? I don't think so. It is a learning experience. You don't pigeon hole a player just because he played there, only idiots who know nothing about Football would think that. You do realise that Matthew Pavlich started his career in the midfield and at CHB/Full back. Now he is one of the premier CHF's in the league. So, you clearly know nothing about football.
Wow, how many Pavlich's are there in the league? One? The reason this awesome forward plays in the midfield is because our midfield has been shit since he came into the team. What other team would let someone who can kick 70 goals a year waste his time in the midfield?

So supporting the club now means making a mockery of our players by saying they are shit after playing just two games? What an awesome supporter you are. Next time you go to the game are you going to take a banner that says "Piss of Hill, you're shit because you only got 5 possessions in your second game"? We need more supporters like you at the club to show the rest of the competition how pathetic the club is.
If any player has a shit game I will say they had a shit game. I'm not the public education system that gives everyone a sticker for trying, though I'm sure your teachers tell you that you are a very special child for even attempting to do something...

Disagreeing with some of the things the club does is fine, we all have problems with some selections, but actively seeking out to try and destroy the career of a player by Emailing the club saying they are shit is taking it too far and is acting like a Class A troll.
I spoke to the club before the draft telling them to look at getting Rich, Robinson and Cousins, I haven't had any correspondence of any importance since. How silly of me to think that our shit midfield could do with two young midfielders like Rich and Robinson. No no... lets draft a few defenders and small forwards who can play 2 minutes a week in there. Worked well with Mundy/Pavlich/Johnson/Farmer/I could go on but won't, didn't it?
 

Bradesmaen

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It's like shooting ducks in a gallery.



Wow, how many Pavlich's are there in the league? One? The reason this awesome forward plays in the midfield is because our midfield has been shit since he came into the team. What other team would let someone who can kick 70 goals a year waste his time in the midfield?
You didn't even try and answer the question then.


If any player has a shit game I will say they had a shit game. I'm not the public education system that gives everyone a sticker for trying, though I'm sure your teachers tell you that you are a very special child for even attempting to do something...
Yeah he had a shit game, big deal, he's 18 and weighs just 67kg and is finding his feet in football, but here you go in this thread giving him a massive spray for basically being a kid. Last time I checked an elite midfielder in Daniel Wells picked up 8 possies in his second ever game. Whats he doing now? Oh thats right he's one of the best line breakers in the AFL (when he turns up - and is doing it more consistently now). No one says you have to give them a big thumbs up for a shit game, but there is a huge difference from stating a fact to giving them absolute rubbish. Its called being a troll.



I spoke to the club before the draft telling them to look at getting Rich, Robinson and Cousins, I haven't had any correspondence of any importance since. How silly of me to think that our shit midfield could do with two young midfielders like Rich and Robinson. No no... lets draft a few defenders and small forwards who can play 2 minutes a week in there. Worked well with Mundy/Pavlich/Johnson/Farmer/I could go on but won't, didn't it?
I'm sure the club was happy to click delete on the email full of deluded ramblings from a 16 year old who has as much experience scouting as John Howard has cricket experience.
 
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