Stephen Kernahan

[Dank You Steven]

Kernahan was to Carlton what hodge has been to the hawks. Champion player who made his club better with his leadership. This elevates kernahan into the top echelon of CHF's ever. He was a superstar. He is "the captain" still to me.

Can totally see this point of view - he was Carlton's Hodge spiritually.

 

[Dank You Steven]

Wasn't me, but Kernahan was always there when it counted. 17 goals in four GF's. Dunstall 23 in five, Brereton 25 in eight.

All guns.

Spot on. Sticks an Derm ahead of Dunstall in GFs for influence when the game was still in contest. Dunstall's 7 in 1988 were after Derm doing the damage.

 

[Dank You Steven]

Alot of short memories here,
a lot of second fiddle arguments,
Brereton was a genuine CHF and yet he has still kicked more goals than Dunstall in Grand finals.
Brereton at his best was a superior footballer to Kernahan....Sticks just did it for longer whether it be because of injury form or suspension..

Big call on Derm v Sticks - very different in terms of style and influence, but perfect for their respective clubs at the time.

 

[Dank You Steven]

Kernahan was a better footballer than Brereton.

For large chunks of his career, Kernahan WAS the Carlton forward line.

Brereton was almost always Hawthorns second fiddle.

Derm was never second fiddle. In goals output yes, but he led the forward line. He was the influence, the main man, whatever, that enabled Dunstall and the support cast (think Abbott in 88) to run riot most weeks. He brought the fear factor. Breton was the lynchpin, and the go to when the big moment was required.

 

[Dank You Steven]

He was one, Kernahan had a pretty decent finals record.

He did, no doubt, but for the 80s, the best finals performers were Derm and Wayne Johnston. Guaranteed to turn it on.

 

[Altum Volantes]

I think his greatest achievement was probably remaining a reasonably likeable character despite being the captain of Jack Elliott’s Caaaaarlton of a big chunk of the 80s and 90s.

 

[Dank You Steven]

I only caught the tail end of Stephen's career, as I started following AFL in 1996. Unfortunately I never got to see much of him play, but from what I remember he was a consummate professional who didn't really bully people on the field or get in their face unlike Wayne Carey. Is this accurate?

It's not a case of not being a bully, it just wasn't his style. Hugely influential in a different way. If he'd been a bully, he'd have been sussed as a fraud, and if Carey hadn't been a bully, he'd have been a shadow of the player he was.

 

[crazywildhorse]

Kernahan was good, but the guys you mention had/have more impact on the game, especially Carey. This is his career highlight as far as I'm concerned.

Found him.

 

[Luv_our_club]

OK, as a Geelong fan, think back to:
The 89 GF. Who was the catalyst that day for Hawthorn? Brereton.
Go back to the 88 GF. Who was the catalyst? Brereton. 5 goals before half time.
Go back to the 91 GF. Start of the last quarter, game in the balance. Who kicks the first two goals to break it open? Brereton.
Go back to the 85 GF. 8 goals in a side that got pumped.
Go back to mid 1990. Hawks in have a must win game and in danger of missing the finals. Dunstall out, Brereton has broken ribs. He wears a lifejacket, and kicks 11 goals out of position. Hawthorn win.
Go back to the 89 Second Semi. Legitimate (at the time) hip and shoulder on Van Der Haar, legitimate tackle on Darren Williams, Hawthorn behind, within a few minutes with two legitimate acts, turns the game.

Do not equate stats to influence. And your view of how he was influential completely ignores the examples I have just given you. Yes, he did overstep the mark at times. And yes, he did go missing on occasions. But I can think of only one GF where he was completely ineffective - 1987. Otherwise, your memories deceive you - the guy was one of the best and most influential big game players in history.

His influence in changing the 1991 GF is not well known. People think it was all over, but Brereton took the game over during the 3rd quatter and the first 10 mins of the last quarter. Then it was party time. Glad to hear another Hawk supporter giving that credit long unacknowledged by footy history.

 

[gavaniacono]

Derm was never second fiddle. In goals output yes, but he led the forward line. He was the influence, the main man, whatever, that enabled Dunstall and the support cast (think Abbott in 88) to run riot most weeks. He brought the fear factor. Breton was the lynchpin, and the go to when the big moment was required.

Derms footy IQ was way higher than sticks.
Derms skills were under rated due to his bruising style getting the attention.
I'd take Derm first because of his aggression.

 

[Monkey King]

Thanks for teaching me about confirmation bias ... I have only heard about it 5 or six times on bigfooty before;

Hahaha. I’ve seen your posts. I’ve no doubt you have.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Hahaha. I’ve seen your posts. I’ve no doubt you have.

Are you going to tell me how SOS could have been a great FF? haha

 

[Monkey King]

Are you going to tell me how SOS could have been a great FF? haha

Kicked over 200 goals as an adhoc swingman, with bags of 8-10 goals along the way ... and could do stuff like THIS.

Yeah. Was a great player at FB and CHB. Had all the tools to be a great player at FF or CHF.

Not sure where the confirmation bias would be in that assessment. Tell where I'm wrong and let's see.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Kicked over 200 goals as an adhoc swingman, with bags of 8-10 goals along the way ... and could do stuff like THIS.

Yeah. Was a great player at FB and CHB. Had all the tools to be a great player at FF or CHF.

Not sure where the confirmation bias would be in that assessment. Tell where I'm wrong and let's see.

That's BF confirmation bias mate.

Don't you get it?

 

[Monkey King]

That's BF confirmation bias mate.

Don't you get it?

I guess not. I think what I wrote was a little different to some of the stuff you posted. I included stats and facts to support an opinion. You made claims without facts that other posters came and shot down with facts and stats.

Shoot me down with some quantifiable counter points and let’s see how far my bias extends.

 

[SBYM]

Carlton supporters will stand by their man

Course they will.

Deadset legend, that bloke...

 

[Luv_our_club]

I guess not. I think what I wrote was a little different to some of the stuff you posted. I included stats and facts to support an opinion. You made claims without facts that other posters came and shot down with facts and stats.

Shoot me down with some quantifiable counter points and let’s see how far my bias extends.

i will bite. So I challenge you to produce what evidence you can to support your claim about my posts. Seeing as you are such a forensic man, please quote me in full sentences, at least, if you take up this challenge. Good luck.

Overall, I think that people who try to suggest "confirmation bias" on BF while pushing their own subjective opinion take thsemselves way too seriously and they become the joke. That was the point i think you are missing.

 

[Monkey King]

i will bite. So I challenge you to produce what evidence you can to support your claim about my posts. Seeing as you are such a forensic man, please quote me in full sentences, at least, if you take up this challenge. Good luck.

So you biting, is just you making me do work for you? Sorry, that ain’t happening.

But you can start with this post and work backwards for examples if you like ...

Lol, shot down every opinion espoused by Luv_our_club on this topic. Good work.

 

[Luv_our_club]

So you biting, is just you making me do work for you? Sorry, that ain’t happening.

But you can start with this post and work backwards for examples if you like ...

See, i kinda knew you wouldn't do it because it would take some real difficult reaching.... real hard work. Nothing could jump out at you to prove you were right. i know... i have written and read all the posts.

The fact you are a Carlton supporter claiming some sort of analytical objectivity while also criticising another poster for "confirmatrion bias" is just funny mate. So i am not surprised that you took my light jibe about SOS as seriously as you did; take a step back and have a look at what BF is, and until then respect other people's right to have opinions.

 

[Monkey King]

See, i kinda knew you wouldn't do it because it would take some real difficult reaching.... real hard work. Nothing could jump out at you to prove you were right. i know... i have written and read all the posts.

The fact you are a Carlton supporter claiming some sort of analytical objectivity while also criticising another poster for "confirmatrion bias" is just funny mate. So i am not surprised that you took my light jibe about SOS as seriously as you did; take a step back and have a look at what BF is, and until then respect other people's right to have opinions.

The quoted posts are the trail of examples. And ironic to your line of reasoning here, 3 out of 4 of those posters were not Carlton supporters.

Not all opinions are equal. Some are informed, others less so. Some are educated, others uneducated. Some are based on evidence, others on emotion or prejudices. Yes, people have a right to an opinion, but when you choose to express that opinion to others, you can expect it to be rated accordingly. Respecting someone's right to an opinion, does not mean you have to respect the opinion itself.

Anyway, enough of this. Back on topic ... Sticks was a champion footballer and a captain's captain.

 

[Luv_our_club]

The quoted posts are the trail of examples. And ironic to your line of reasoning here, 3 out of 4 of those posters were not Carlton supporters.

Not all opinions are equal. Some are informed, others less so. Some are educated, others uneducated. Some are based on evidence, others on emotion or prejudices. Yes, people have a right to an opinion, but when you choose to express that opinion to others, you can expect it to be rated accordingly. Respecting someone's right to an opinion, does not mean you have to respect the opinion itself.

Anyway, enough of this. Back on topic ... Sticks was a champion footballer and a captain's captain.

I definitely agree with your last line.

But i will just add, most of the opinions I made in this thread about Dermott (or "claims" if you prefer) are opinions that really can't be proven by statistics.

For example, claims about where he played on the ground, his role as enforcer, his importance to hawthorn and to finals campaigns.... these things are subjective opinions you get from watching game after game after game of a footballer.

The fact that Dermott played less than 200 games but appeared in 8 grand finals, and also rarely played more than 15 home away games a season, and didn't reach 200 games, and had crippling injures, make his statistical analysis a mess. ALSO... his stat are almost on par with Carey but Carey is considered CLEARLY better by most judges who WATCHED.

Just opinions, sometimes, are all you have, based on watching football.

 

[Brutalitops]

See, i kinda knew you wouldn't do it because it would take some real difficult reaching.... real hard work. Nothing could jump out at you to prove you were right. i know... i have written and read all the posts.

The fact you are a Carlton supporter claiming some sort of analytical objectivity while also criticising another poster for "confirmatrion bias" is just funny mate. So i am not surprised that you took my light jibe about SOS as seriously as you did; take a step back and have a look at what BF is, and until then respect other people's right to have opinions.

I just want to say that your opinion of Dermie being better than Sticks isnt invalid, its just in the minority as it seems formed more intangibles rather than something rock solid. Theres nothing wrong with having that opinion.

I rate Buddy as better than Carey, and im clearly in the minority on that. Thats fine, its my opinion. Not a popular one but there it is.

I really liked the comparison someone made earlier in the thread about Kernahan and Hodge. From a Hawthorn perspective thats who i reckon you should be thinking of when you're trying to find a pound for pound comparison. Both elite and consistent footballers with longevity and carry the traits of the proverbial "captain's captain". Dermie could put bums on seats with his performances but Sticks and Hodge would lead your club to a flag.

Sticks captained us for 220 plus games, a VFL and AFL record that is unlikely to be broken. A lot of blokes take a slight backwards step in their playing when they take the mantle of captain. Thats just how it is. Sticks took to it with aplomb as his playing record will back up. He played 251 games for us and was captain for 226. When you look at his stats, most of those goals kicked in finals, his 738 goals, his 2 AA guernseys, his B&Fs... he was also captaining the side. When most people give a KPF a bit of slack for not kicking many goals in finals because of the pressure, Sticks kicked goals and won finals.

 

[Luv_our_club]

I just want to say that your opinion of Dermie being better than Sticks isnt invalid, its just in the minority as it seems formed more intangibles rather than something rock solid. Theres nothing wrong with having that opinion.

I rate Buddy as better than Carey, and im clearly in the minority on that. Thats fine, its my opinion. Not a popular one but there it is.

I really liked the comparison someone made earlier in the thread about Kernahan and Hodge. From a Hawthorn perspective thats who i reckon you should be thinking of when you're trying to find a pound for pound comparison. Both elite and consistent footballers with longevity and carry the traits of the proverbial "captain's captain". Dermie could put bums on seats with his performances but Sticks and Hodge would lead your club to a flag.

Sticks captained us for 220 plus games, a VFL and AFL record that is unlikely to be broken. A lot of blokes take a slight backwards step in their playing when they take the mantle of captain. Thats just how it is. Sticks took to it with aplomb as his playing record will back up. He played 251 games for us and was captain for 226. When you look at his stats, most of those goals kicked in finals, his 738 goals, his 2 AA guernseys, his B&Fs... he was also captaining the side. When most people give a KPF a bit of slack for not kicking many goals in finals because of the pressure, Sticks kicked goals and won finals.

I really like your post. I just agree.

Although i will have to think about the Franklin vs Carey thing. i really have never thought about it before.

EDIT: Oh, and the bit about leading clubs to a flag like Hodge... when it came to flag leading you would need to include Dermott, and imo before Hodge. Being a "Captain" however is a bit different.

 

[Davo23]

Will never understand the way he is rated above some others. Same with Brown.

I only saw Kernahan play against my club, and Chris Langford easily had his measure every time.

So, I don’t understand it either.

 

[Turnover]

If anyone can get the vision of a state game at Subiaco of dermie. Unbelievable footy. Or u could just watch the 85 gf.