Stephen Silvagni and Carlton

[Two Eyes]

Sadly it is what it is, very rarely going to see quality go to bottom 4 sides

Brisbane managed it, but then Carlton are no Brisbane.

 

[Catters 070911]

Huh?

Derm wanted old mate Ayres to coach (he's said that publicly). Dunstall pulled rank and went with Clarko.

If Derm got his way, it would have been interesting to see which Hawk Ayres would have got to wash his car.

Also, he would have got of the veterans all in one year, like he did at Geelong, when he offloaded Ablett, Couch, Bairstow and Brownless and left us with nothing.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Tuohy would have stayed if SOS had made a reasonable contract offer

Think it was the years in the end. If Carlton had have matched the cats offer he stays

 

[davis_756]

Brisbane managed it, but then Carlton are no Brisbane.

Neale? After they come good towards the end of last year showing they were on the up

Be a lot easier to sell Carlton if we can win 4/11 to finish the season like Brisbane did.

 

[Dr Awkward]

Yikes. I wonder if there's an equivalent video of the Adelaide booth falling over themselves to take the deal.

The damning part for me is the way that they keep reassuring themselves, "We rate this kid at pick 6." That's an alarmingly dumb view of market dynamics (or else desperation). Because even if they're geniuses and correctly value Stocker at Pick 6 while no-one else does, while also correctly predicting that the Blues will rise up the ladder and make their 2019 first-rounder less valuable, that still doesn't justify overpaying the market rate.

It's like I have a diamond and I want to swap it for a tomato because I really like tomatoes and don't rate diamonds. I can make that trade and feel like I came out ahead, but the correct move is first to swap my diamond for what other people think it's worth ($$$), then pay what other people think the tomato is worth ($), giving me the tomato + $$ left over.

Haha great post.

This is what happens when you have all these ex-players making recruiting and management decisions. There are barely any transferable skills from being a player to a list manager.

Have a look at American sports, those positions are filled by professionals who understand market dynamics, statistics, game theory, negotiation, probability etc

 

[Dr Awkward]

I love how in that video they are watching a highlights tape of Stocker as well, at the last minute. As if watching the video again should affect your decision making at that point.

 

[Fadge]

I love how in that video they are watching a highlights tape of Stocker as well, at the last minute. As if watching the video again should affect your decision making at that point.

I suspect it's the first time that some of the people in the room saw any footage of him...

 

[Dr Awkward]

They would have done a better job if they just hired Knightmare instead of SOS

 

[Leeda]

and how am I to talk about SOS when times are tough.. at Carlton...

I just know that cohesion is not rife at the blues... do I want to help? NO not really but .. I
feel compelled to say my piece.. the fish is rotting and canny people will throw this out and start again..

gulp.. cross my hart I wander failingly..

 

[Blue1980]

I suspect Silvagni is a guy who is obsessed with winning deals, contractual negotiations included. He needs to realise that sometimes, you gotta pay star players to keep them there, create some balance in the team and attract others.

Agree, he’s like our Dedoro, but instead of overrating our own players, he overrates formerly highly rated juniors, especially if he drafted them previously.

 

[Two Eyes]

Neale? After they come good towards the end of last year showing they were on the up

Be a lot easier to sell Carlton if we can win 4/11 to finish the season like Brisbane did.

Beams.

 

[LordLucifer]

Just on the whole issue of last year's trade, at the time, I defended that trade, thinking Adelaide would be a middle of the road side (which I was right about) and thinking that Carlton would finish around 13th-14th, presuming that the green shoots would turn into little trees.

Got the first part right, just not the second. In hindsight, it was a dumb trade. If Carlton rated Stocker that highly, than trade down, but you still gain enough resources to ensure your trading down is equivalent. Or you trade up using a later pick. Ultimately though it shows the risk of unprotected pick trading and pick one for pick 11 and 19 isn't a fair trade. They may turn out to be all gun players, but it's the process that's important. If I trade pick one for pick 20 and pick 20 ends up being a better player, it's still a dumb trade. Recruiting and trading is a process. Carlton isn't the first professional team to hurt themselves through unprotected pick trading, and they won't be the last, but they must have known this year was a possibility.

Therein lies the problem.

No-one poo-pooed the deal at the the time but now with the value of hindsight, they are all experts.

Anyone who did think it was a crap deal at the time and called it out is entitled to come out swinging.

 

[Simba Moyo]

Neale? After they come good towards the end of last year showing they were on the up

Be a lot easier to sell Carlton if we can win 4/11 to finish the season like Brisbane did.

Charlie Cameron literally left the minor premiers and grand finalist team in Adelaide to come to wooden spoon winning Brisbane.

He's the exactly type of player Carlton are crying out for too.

 

[Richo83]

Therein lies the problem.

No-one poo-pooed the deal at the the time but now with the value of hindsight, they are all experts.

Anyone who did think it was a crap deal at the time and called it out is entitled to come out swinging.

Knightmate hated the trade, in fact I had a lengthy argument with him about it where he predicted that you'd be the worst side in the competition and claimed you don't pass up on superstars for depth. I think I underestimated how badly Carlton would be.

I disagree though that the only people who can criticise this deal are those who hated it from the onset, it's possible to change your kind once info comes to mind.

Here's the difference between me and SOS. I'm not a person involved in footy, I'm just some guy on a website. SOS isn't, he's a full time employee of a professional organisation. He should know where his team is at better than anyone. For him to misread his team this badly is staggering.

 

[Toump Ass]

Anyone who did think it was a crap deal at the time and called it out is entitled to come out swinging.

Ripper, that's me.

I've been calling Silvangni a shit list manager since he was at GWS.

Incredible to think you could be so demonstrably incompetent in your job and still get hired at another company.

I genuinely think anyone who spent half an hour on bigfooty a day could have done a better job recruiting for GWS than he did.

He sucks.

 

[mcgarnacle]

I love how in that video they are watching a highlights tape of Stocker as well, at the last minute. As if watching the video again should affect your decision making at that point.

"remember it was really windy that day"

 

[Fadge]

Therein lies the problem.

No-one poo-pooed the deal at the the time but now with the value of hindsight, they are all experts.

Anyone who did think it was a crap deal at the time and called it out is entitled to come out swinging.

Huh? 'No-one poo-pooed the deal at the time'?

You obviously move in different circles than I do.

It was laughable at the time and even moreso now...

 

[mcgarnacle]

Yikes. I wonder if there's an equivalent video of the Adelaide booth falling over themselves to take the deal.

We all wish - Reid did a great job to contain himself.

I would've cracked

 

[Tom14]

Huh? 'No-one poo-pooed the deal at the time'?

You obviously move in different circles than I do.

It was laughable at the time and even moreso now...

Literally everyone criticised it. At best some sycophantic types in the media might have put a Carlton spin on it and crapped on about them improving, but I think they were a minority.

Criticism was far stronger amongst smarter footy media types too.

 

[Richo83]

There's a thread about the trade with plenty of concerned posters.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...t-from-adelaide-for-their-future-1st.1209263/

I think the "draft calculator" argument also doesn't stack up, Cartlon needs superstars to build around and give fans hope and attract recruits. It is true that Carlton haven't done anything much with their high draft picks before, but that was due to poor list management and coaching. Just because you blow a grand on ghost drops a decade ago doesn't mean another grand isn't handy.

 

[Fadge]

There's a thread about the trade with plenty of concerned posters.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...t-from-adelaide-for-their-future-1st.1209263/

I think the "draft calculator" argument also doesn't stack up, Cartlon needs superstars to build around and give fans hope and attract recruits. It is true that Carlton haven't done anything much with their high draft picks before, but that was due to poor list management and coaching. Just because you blow a grand on ghost drops a decade ago doesn't mean another grand isn't handy.

Interesting reading.

Crows supporters were jumping out of their skin in excitement, with most neutrals also seeing it as a huge advantage to the Crows.

Carlton supporters defending it by posing hypotheticals about 2019 ladder finishing positions. Now that they can't fall back on that, they're telling us to wait 10 years to see how the careers of the respective draft picks pan out.

Astounding.

 

[Black Panther]

Don't worry about SOS ... Tom Silvagni will be the saviour

 

[Richo83]

Interesting reading.

Crows supporters were jumping out of their skin in excitement, with most neutrals also seeing it as a huge advantage to the Crows.

Carlton supporters defending it by posing hypotheticals about 2019 ladder finishing positions. Now that they can't fall back on that, they're telling us to wait 10 years to see how the careers of the respective draft picks pan out.

Astounding.

Yeah the neutrals were on the crows' side.

And to reiterate blues fans, if Stocker becomes a 200 gamer, great, but trading is a process, so all those blues fans pumping up Stocker need to realise that trading pick 1 for pick 11 and pick 19 is dumb even if pick 1 gets hit by a truck. You've traded a dollar for three quarters.

 

[Two Eyes]

Adelaide rushing to take Carlton’s deal:

[img]https://makeagif.com/i/DBhDB7

 

[Wayne Swan]

There's a thread about the trade with plenty of concerned posters.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...t-from-adelaide-for-their-future-1st.1209263/

I think the "draft calculator" argument also doesn't stack up, Cartlon needs superstars to build around and give fans hope and attract recruits. It is true that Carlton haven't done anything much with their high draft picks before, but that was due to poor list management and coaching. Just because you blow a grand on ghost drops a decade ago doesn't mean another grand isn't handy.

That thread is a great read, Carlton supporters making out like SOS is a genius with them charging up the ladder in 2019, most other neutrals shaking their head in what Carlton may be handing over. Now reality sets in and the number one pick is in Crows hands, but a significant number of Carlton supporters still think it's a win!

SOS may yet be a recruiting genius with Stocker becoming a star, but I'll back the other 17 clubs to have it right, Stocker was, and is, a 20s pick.

If my club did that trade I'd be fuming right now and absolutely livid on draft night when the Crows call out the name of an almost certain star to commence proceedings. The only fails at pick one have been KPF, mids almost always delivery on their pick number.