Stephen Silvagni and Carlton

LordLucifer

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The difference is you’ve named 9 blokes from 9 different clubs. Not 10+ from one.

If SOS took a gamble with even a handful I don’t think anyone would bat an eyelid. It’s the fact it’s taken over half a side of GWS blokes and it’s possible less than 2 will have decent careers at Carlton

Just in case you hadn't noticed, every year every List Manager takes a gamble with every draft pick and the hit rate amongst them all is reasonably low.

I'm sure if we looked at the Pies drafting over the past 10-years there would be some heavy misses just like every other club.
 

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RobR

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Same situation as Setterfield I spose.

Except one helped win his side a flag and the other hasnt shown much since being drafted.
C'mon, how long did it take to win that flag? ( don't say two and a half hours)
 

jezzajay

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Same situation as Setterfield I spose.

Except one helped win his side a flag and the other hasnt shown much since being drafted.
My gawd...lol.
 

Rich01

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Unexpectly you've also raised another good point. SOS was very quick to delist the stop gaps. Players like Lamb and Kerridge were very limited players but they were mature bodies we could've used this year. They could potentially have been the difference to some of those 'Honarable losses' this year and the Stocker trade wouldn't have looked so bad.
LOL. Applauding SOS for delisting the spuds that he drafted. Now I’ve heard it all.
 

chunkylover53

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Just in case you hadn't noticed, every year every List Manager takes a gamble with every draft pick and the hit rate amongst them all is reasonably low.

I'm sure if we looked at the Pies drafting over the past 10-years there would be some heavy misses just like every other club.
Funny thing is right in the thick of their list build under Buckley they completely butchered 2 first rounders in Freeman and Scahrenbuerg - they recovered easy though.

Richmond took Ben Lennon 1 pick ahead of Cripps in the first round. Hasn't mattered at all in the end really.

If a club is truly on the right path then a few missed picks don't matter at all. Nor a few rejects from other clubs who only end up playing 30 games.

What were peoples expectations of Carlton this year anyway? We were always meant to be bottom 4 - our 22 is still extremely young. What if we pinch say 3-4 more wins and avoid the spoon? Will we still be a rabble with a bunch of **** kids?
 

SickQwon

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LOL. Applauding SOS for delisting the spuds that he drafted. Now I’ve heard it all.
Try again, I'm saying keeping some mature bodies would've benefit Carlton in the Stocker trade.

No Idea what you're talking about???
 

Rich01

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Try again, I'm saying keeping some mature bodies would've benefit Carlton in the Stocker trade.

No Idea what you're talking about???
So are you applauding or chastising SOS for delisting the mature bodied spuds he originally recruited?
 

SickQwon

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So are you applauding or chastising SOS for delisting the mature bodied spuds he originally recruited?
Both. These recruits helped acquire Plowman and McKay but being quick to delist them left the team with too many inexperienced players.
 
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chunkylover53

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So are you applauding or chastising SOS for delisting the mature bodied spuds he originally recruited?
What did you think of the following fillers/cloggers Richmond bought in at the start of their rebuild under Hardwick?
Farmer
Dea
Morris
Maric
Morton
Chaplin
Knights
Graham
Edwards
White
Hampson
Lloyd
Miles
Thomas
Banfield
Hunt


Do you not think they played a role during your development years?
 

Rich01

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What did you think of the following fillers/cloggers Richmond bought in at the start of their rebuild under Hardwick?
Farmer
Dea
Morris
Maric
Morton
Chaplin
Knights
Graham
Edwards
White
Hampson
Lloyd
Miles
Thomas
Banfield
Hunt


Do you not think they played a role during your development years?
Farmer - clogger
Dea- bad draft pick
Morris- clogger
Maric - played a big part in our flag culture.
Morton- clogger
Chaplin- played a part in the culture of our premiership backline.
Knights- injuries killed his career so ultimately a clogger
Mark Graham- clogger
Shane Edwards- clogger
White- was promising and probably would have played in a flag if he hadby have chased the cash at port.
Hampson- Clogger
Lloyd - Premiership depth. Would still like him at the club but he chose to leave.
Miles- Depth and team man but ultimately a clogger who had to go to give the kids opportunities.
Thomas- clogger.
Banfield- clogger
Hunt - clogger


If I had my time again, only Maric, Chaplin, Lloyd and perhaps White would make the list.

Now you do yours for Carlton from 2015 to now.
 

chunkylover53

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Farmer - clogger
Dea- bad draft pick
Morris- clogger
Maric - played a big part in our flag culture.
Morton- clogger
Chaplin- played a part in the culture of our premiership backline.
Knights- injuries killed his career so ultimately a clogger
Mark Graham- clogger
Shane Edwards- clogger
White- was promising and probably would have played in a flag if he hadby have chased the cash at port.
Hampson- Clogger
Lloyd - Premiership depth. Would still like him at the club but he chose to leave.
Miles- Depth and team man but ultimately a clogger who had to go to give the kids opportunities.
Thomas- clogger.
Banfield- clogger
Hunt - clogger


If I had my time again, only Maric, Chaplin, Lloyd and perhaps White would make the list.

Now you do yours for Carlton from 2015 to now.
Fair enough.

Kerridge - Was a good help in a very shallow, young midfield - played a part
Wright - Was our leading goalkicker for 2 years, retired due to a coaching offer - played a part
Gorringe - Clogger
Lamb - Played 44 games as a small forward/tagger - played a part
Sumner - clogger
Plowman - In our best 22, was in leadership group - playing a part
Smedts - Clogger
Pickett - Clogger
Palmer - Clogger
Lobbe - Still on our list as a 3rd backup ruckman - playing a part as Kreuzer and Phillips are fragile
Kennedy - Looks a bust/clogger
Lang - Looks a bust/clogger
Mullet - Clogger
Garlett - Cloggger
Oshea- Clogger
Shaw - Clogger
Fasolo - Clogger
Goddard - Is good depth for this year, dominating our VFL side
Bugg - clogger

Not all that much difference. Also it's not like we gave up anything for these guys. I can tell the rebuttal for this is going to be 'if it's the same strategy then why are Carlton so **** and Richmond are so good' - it's because your star power/top 6 are in their absolute prime. Exactly what we will have to wait for. If you think bringing in spuds that end up playing 30-odd games is a brand new thing SOS invented then you need to look deeper at our issues.

You say that if you had your time again you'd only take 3 of those blokes. Who would you have taken instead? More 18 year olds? Do you think that would have been healthy for your VFL team or depth?
 

La Dispute

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"Premiership depth"

Classic. aka not good enough get a spot over Nathan Broad, Brandon Ellis, Jacob Townsend or Jack Graham.

"Played a part in the culture of our premiership backline"

Aka, was a bad player who **** the bed in multiple finals but Richmond won the premiership not long after.
 

Drewie11

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A lack of knowledge of these players shows here, it's like me saying Fogharty and Gallucci are busts because they are not All Australians yet.
Hit me with the knowledge I should have then Rob
 

Two Eyes

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I wouldn’t agree with this.

I’d say Leigh brown left and they tried to fill the void with Quinton Lynch and Jesse White.

Other stop gap fills were a attempt to still win a flag in Buckley’s first 4 years.
I think a lot of those early treads the Pies picked up were flat out mistakes. Made in part because Hines has been promoted to List Manager and was now making those decisions. At some point the situation was reviewed and Hine was moved to head of recruitment and list management went to someone more capable.

In short the Pies course corrected. There’s no sign of that at Carlton where fumbledick SOS reign supreme and unaccountable.
 

Two Eyes

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Funny thing is right in the thick of their list build under Buckley they completely butchered 2 first rounders in Freeman and Scahrenbuerg - they recovered easy though.
Both cruelled by injury rather than lack of talent. Schaz no write-off in any case. Building fitness in the VFL and likely to get senior selection in the next 3 weeks.

Freeman was a complete bust. Lucky for us the Saints had a ‘SOS’ moment and gave us a 2nd rounder for him. Of course we then on traded that as part of the Aish deal so you can’t win them all.
 

10571z

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Both cruelled by injury rather than lack of talent. Schaz no write-off in any case. Building fitness in the VFL and likely to get senior selection in the next 3 weeks.

Freeman was a complete bust. Lucky for us the Saints had a ‘SOS’ moment and gave us a 2nd rounder for him. Of course we then on traded that as part of the Aish deal so you can’t win them all.
To be fair Aish was good enough to play a in a grand final side so not a complete bust there.

I think SOS really neglected bringing in some mature help 4 years ago. Fair enough get rid of some dead weight but i think a few older helpers would have gone a long way to maybe sneaking a few wins and supporting the kids. The GWS recruits just didn't do this.

Not absolute guns but instead of having 10 blokes under 50 games have 6 with 4 mature blokes.
 

Rich01

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"Premiership depth"

Classic. aka not good enough get a spot over Nathan Broad, Brandon Ellis, Jacob Townsend or Jack Graham.

"Played a part in the culture of our premiership backline"

Aka, was a bad player who **** the bed in multiple finals but Richmond won the premiership not long after.
What’s your view of the 20 or so list cloggers SOS has brought in and delisted over the past four years?
 

SickQwon

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What’s your view of the 20 or so list cloggers SOS has brought in and delisted over the past four years?
They all got replaced by first rounders because Carlton are building through the draft. Didn't you read your revision notes?
 

La Dispute

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What’s your view of the 20 or so list cloggers SOS has brought in and delisted over the past four years?
Fodder, as already outlined multiple times in this thread.

Not too dissimilar to many of the players cycled through Richmond’s list in their formative years, and some are even occupying spots today.
 

chunkylover53

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What’s your view of the 20 or so list cloggers SOS has brought in and delisted over the past four years?
You can read the post above you where I listed the cloggers and my thoughts on them - I'd imagine most Carlton fans feel the same. Maybe read it and answer the questions instead of circling back to square 1; it just makes it look like you are pushing an agenda.

What is "Premiership Depth"? - It seems that you think there is a difference between 'depth' and 'clogger', can you please enlighten me as to what the difference is? Do Collingwood have depth or cloggers because they didn't win the Premiership last year - confusing.

To be fair Aish was good enough to play a in a grand final side so not a complete bust there.

I think SOS really neglected bringing in some mature help 4 years ago. Fair enough get rid of some dead weight but i think a few older helpers would have gone a long way to maybe sneaking a few wins and supporting the kids. The GWS recruits just didn't do this.

Not absolute guns but instead of having 10 blokes under 50 games have 6 with 4 mature blokes.
Completely reasonable and you'll struggle to find a Carlton fan that would disagree. Our recruitment of mature players/depth has been sub-par, as you said a better 5-6 players instead of 10 reserves ones would have helped us pinch some more wins and save Bolton. What I'm arguing is that it's clear the path SOS and his team have followed is not that dissimilar to some current successful clubs like Richmond or Collingwood, it's also naive to think we have ****** up so bad that we are beyond repair and claim that SOS is completely useless.
 
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