Play Nice The 'all things Carlton' mega-thread

[Juddernaut08]

Yep seems to be the case .

On access all areas today they showed a stat where Carlton actaully have the most 1st rounders since 2010.
16-carlton ....(gws was second with 15)
Absolute damning stat for the blues as most myself included, thought GWS had the most.
For all the wank blues fans go on about slivagni,seems the only way he can go about "building " a list is thru sheer weight of numbers of first round picks,eventually hoping you ll snag a few match winners.

Load the team up with said first rounders,watch them rack up the losses ,finish lowly again,go to the draft with more first rounders,trade any experienced player for,yet again,more first rounders ...rinse and repeat

The scary part for blues fans is Its not too much different from back in the mid 2000s where,after finally learning you cant just buy the best players,you had to go the draft. So off they went to load up on no1 s(by tanking,not salary cap breaches but still cheating all the same) and thought thats how its done in the new world of afl.

The part about using some first rounders to get some experienced players in is spot on the money.

But carlton seem to be trading the other way (experienced players for yet more draft picks)
Its been shown time and time again,you need a balance but they dont seemed to have got it. Melbourne did. While still keeping some of their high picks they then proceeded to trade their others for experienced players,in areas of need.
Carlton are yet to do this and with SOS in charge cant see much changing unfortunately for blues fans which will only increase the heat on bolten.

I reckon hes headed the same way as ratten and we all know how that turned out for the blues

What do you base the no-balance on? Melbourne were getting thumped by 100 pt margins on the regular. That's not balanced.

 

[demondavey]

Yep seems to be the case .

On access all areas today they showed a stat where Carlton actaully have tbe most 1st rounders since 2010.
16-carlton ....(gws was second with 15)
Absolute damning stat for the blues as most myself included, thought GWS had the most.
For all the wank blues fans go on about slivagni,seems the only way he can go about "building " a list is thru sheer weight of numbers of first round picks,eventually hoping you ll snag a few match winners.

Load the team up with said first rounders,watch them rack up the losses ,finish lowly again,go to the draft with more first rounders,trade any experienced player for,yet again,more first rounders ...rinse and repeat

The scary part for blues fans is Its not too much different from back in the mid 2000s where,after finally learning you cant just buy the best players,you had to go the draft. So off they went to load up on no1 s(by tanking,not salary cap breaches but still cheating all the same) and thought thats how its done i the new world of afl.

The part about using some first rounders to get some experienced players in is spot on the money.

But carlton seem to be trading the other way (experienced players for yet more draft picks)
Its been shown time and time again,you need a balance but they dont seemed to have got it. Melbourne did. While still keeping some of their high picks they then proceeded to trade their others for experienced players,in areas of need.
Carlton are yet to do this and with SOS in charge cant see much changing unfortunately for blues fans which will only increase the heat on bolten.

I reckon hes headed the same way as ratten and we all know how that turned out for the blues

And that’s the damning thing. If GWS have had 15 first round picks and you’ve had 16, then if the draft was the be all and end all, you’d be doing as well as them. But it’s not, and anyone that tells you otherwise is a fool.

The amount of top 10 picks since 2010 has got to be a major concern for little development.

Carlton, like Melbourne had, seems to have a serious cultural problem. Player management, medical management, development etc. We made the mistake of putting in Mark Neeld when our listed needed Paul Roos. You may be asking Bolton to do too much with your group and you may need a genuine big name.

 

[davis_756]

Do you know what a recruiting department is ?

After Roos was appointed our recruiters chose Jayden Hunt at pick 57. Paul Roos would never have heard of him, but our recruiters were tracking him for 3 years.

I love Carlton supporters...

So you are assigning Weitering, Curnow, Mckay & Cunningham as Malthouse or Bolton selections? Or are we not assigning them to anyone in which case why have you been arguing this very point to the hilt for the best part of a week?

Sit down and shut up

 

[Rich01]

Development of Weitering and McKay biggest issue for mine.

 

[davis_756]

Don’t worry abt Trav. He loves his round one marker so much he can’t see it has a few obvious flaws. Which is okay, so long as one accepts the comparison is valid, from a limited first-game perspective. The issue is when you go back to the more encompassing first-day-on-job perspective, Trav gets grumpy and calls everyone stupid.

He is a dead set moron, no point beating around the bush

 

[Juddernaut08]

And that’s the damning thing. If GWS have had 15 first round picks and you’ve had 16, then if the draft was the be all and end all, you’d be doing as well as them. But it’s not, and anyone that tells you otherwise is a fool.

The amount of top 10 picks since 2010 has got to be a major concern for little development.

Carlton, like Melbourne had, seems to have a serious cultural problem. Player management, medical management, development etc. We made the mistake of putting in Mark Neeld when our listed needed Paul Roos. You may be asking Bolton to do too much with your group and you may need a genuine big name.

Who are these 16 picks we've had?

• Pick 3 - Dow
• Pick 10 OBrien
• SPS pick 6
• Weitering 1
• McKay 10
• Curnow 12
• Cuningham 23
• Boekhorst 19
• Cripps 13
• Menzel 11
• Bootsma 22
• Watson 18

I count 12, including picks 18, 19, 22 and 23.

 

[doppleganger]

We can talk about the teams that played and there's weird nitpicky stats wither of us can pull.

Looking at the lists:

Pies are 3rd most experienced by games played, and 4th oldest.
Carlton are 14th and 14th.
https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2018

Yeah our full list is old because we actually went out and had to bring some experience in after turning over our list in 14-16.

Hence bringing in guys like Wells, Dunn and Mayne at the end of 2016.

Guys like Dunn, Mayne, Goldsack, Greenwood, Blair great club men who brilliant around the club and developing the kids.

We are in a good place because of the ten guys who born 1990 or earlier - Wells, Pendles, Dunn, Varcoe, Blair, Mayne, Greenwood, Varcoe, Reid and Howe - only a few are actually important players to the AFL team.

Could enter 2019 with just Pendles and Howe as part of the best 22 and not be much worse off at all.

 

[demondavey]

Who are these 16 picks we've had?

• Pick 3 - Dow
• Pick 10 OBrien
• SPS pick 6
• Weitering 1
• McKay 10
• Curnow 12
• Cuningham 23
• Boekhorst 19
• Cripps 13
• Menzel 11
• Bootsma 22
• Watson 18

I count 12, including picks 18, 19, 22 and 23.

Didn’t someone say 16? Ok well you count 12. It’s a lot though isn’t it?

 

[demondavey]

Development of Weitering and McKay biggest issue for mine.

Must come along.

 

[doppleganger]

Who are these 16 picks we've had?

• Pick 3 - Dow
• Pick 10 OBrien
• SPS pick 6
• Weitering 1
• McKay 10
• Curnow 12
• Cuningham 23
• Boekhorst 19
• Cripps 13
• Menzel 11
• Bootsma 22
• Watson 18

I count 12, including picks 18, 19, 22 and 23.

Without seeing the piece, I would imagine it would be taking the 2018 lists and detailing how many were first round.

So players you traded in, those GWS blokes, who were first round would count.

 

[BPikkers]

Fair response. I do like a few of your prospects and Moore/Grundy are two players I'd be confident will become A-graders. The rest of the names I'm not as confident on but you could say the same about names that I'd rattle off.

VFL was embarrassing, but Pies are one of the oldest team in the league though, so you'd expect your depth to beat ours.

But by 130 points? I also forgot to add today’s rising star nomination.

‘Average’ has always been a silly measurement. Take out our ‘new’ additions in Wells, Mayne and Dunne and that completely changeable the ‘average’.

In any case, that just shows why the blues recruiting strategy may be flawed. You haven’t bothered to recruit any good experienced leaders.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Without seeing the piece, I would imagine it would be taking the 2018 lists and detailing how many were first round.

So players you traded in, those GWS blokes, who were first round would count.

Then the stat is irrelevant in terms of drafting opportunities or a damning stat.

If you trade for a player, whether they are a first rounder or a rookie pick originally, you're still just trading for that player.

In summary, dumb stat but even dumber guy who posted it as a damning stat.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Yeah our full list is old because we actually went out and had to bring some experience in after turning over our list in 14-16.

Hence bringing in guys like Wells, Dunn and Mayne at the end of 2016.

Guys like Dunn, Mayne, Goldsack, Greenwood, Blair great club men who brilliant around the club and developing the kids.

We are in a good place because of the ten guys who born 1990 or earlier - Wells, Pendles, Dunn, Varcoe, Blair, Mayne, Greenwood, Varcoe, Reid and Howe - only a few are actually important players to the AFL team.

Could enter 2019 with just Pendles and Howe as part of the best 22 and not be much worse off at all.

Everyone's got exceptions but you're still such an old list? The other bottom dwellers are very young in comparison? Surprising that's all.

 

[Brutalitops]

Development of Weitering and McKay biggest issue for mine.

Weitering is a funny one because his development has been thrown a bit by us having a few good quality KPD. Plowman, Marchbank, Jones and Weitering makes 4. So we've been throwing him forward which in my opinion is hurting his development.

Its a funny position to be in.

 

[davis_756]

But by 130 points? I also forgot to add today’s rising star nomination.

‘Average’ has always been a silly measurement. Take out our ‘new’ additions in Wells, Mayne and Dunne and that completely changeable the ‘average’.

In any case, that just shows why the blues recruiting strategy may be flawed. You haven’t bothered to recruit any good experienced leaders.

Do you not think that now we have built the core of younger players we won't top up with more mature bodies through free agency over the coming 12-24 months.

I mean we already chased Rockliff to directly replace Gibbs, we were strongly linked to Josh Kelly before he resigned. Once we start to show improvement these types will want to come over and that balance will be corrected.

 

[Trav 20]

So you are assigning Weitering, Curnow, Mckay & Cunningham as Malthouse or Bolton selections? Or are we not assigning them to anyone in which case why have you been arguing this very point to the hilt for the best part of a week?

Sit down and shut up

Listen child, I'm assigning them to your recruitment department.

 

[BPikkers]

Do you not think that now we have built the core of younger players we won't top up with more mature bodies through free agency over the coming 12-24 months.

I mean we already chased Rockliff to directly replace Gibbs, we were strongly linked to Josh Kelly before he resigned. Once we start to show improvement these types will want to come over and that balance will be corrected.

Yep. You would be hoping to win at least 8 games this year if that was going to be the case.

 

[Brutalitops]

In any case, that just shows why the blues recruiting strategy may be flawed. You haven’t bothered to recruit any good experienced leaders.

Thats nonsense. Doc is practically our general down back. So much so he has even taken on light coaching duties for the back 6 whilst he out for the season injured. Hes 24 btw.

 

[davis_756]

Listen child, I'm assigning them to your recruitment department.

Resorting to calling someone you don't know a child, good one Einstein you just proved how juvenile and stupid you are

 

[BPikkers]

Thats nonsense. Doc is practically our general down back. So much so he has even taken on light coaching duties for the back 6 whilst he out for the season injured. Hes 24 btw.

Was he recruited as an experienced leader???

 

[Rich01]

Weitering is a funny one because his development has been thrown a bit by us having a few good quality KPD. Plowman, Marchbank, Jones and Weitering makes 4. So we've been throwing him forward which in my opinion is hurting his development.

Its a funny position to be in.

I like Plowman and Marchbank but I wonder if both of them take one of the 2 key positions down back? Both are good rebounding defenders with Marchbank probably best suited to a key post.

Weitering was tried forward last year before Jones good run of VFL form brought him into the senior side. He wasnr cruises as a key back and comparisons were made to rance. Has to be played back there - he’s 20% of the way through his career already and he’s not learning his craft.

McKay also needs to play. Drop Casboult and get him in. It will hurt short term but Bolton’s got a 66 game rebuild remit and fans won’t care as long as the talls are developing.

 

[davis_756]

Yep. You would be hoping to win at least 8 games this year if that was going to be the case.

May not happen this year, need a HBF with elite skills to pop up and the 2 HBs we drafted this year may not be ready. Need another Key Forward but if Mckay/Kerr don't progress that far we will be without luck on that front as well.

 

[Dez!]

Weitering is a funny one because his development has been thrown a bit by us having a few good quality KPD. Plowman, Marchbank, Jones and Weitering makes 4. So we've been throwing him forward which in my opinion is hurting his development.

Its a funny position to be in.

It's not really, it's an easy solution.

F*** Jones off and let Weitering play his role, he'll do it better and he's the future.

Jones should be nothing but depth.

 

[Trav 20]

Resorting to calling someone you don't know a child, good one Einstein you just proved how juvenile and stupid you are

No-one says "sit down and shut up" on a forum unless they're a child.

Go to bed.

 

[doppleganger]

Everyone's got exceptions but you're still such an old list? The other bottom dwellers are very young in comparison? Surprising that's all.

Not surprising our full list is old.

But what is important is the actual players who are playing key roles. Our old guys are either injured, or already passed over for better prospects.

But it is important to have senior leaders to set the standards and lead the club at training etc.

Hence why the actual team we trotted out in R3 had similar age and experience as Carlton.

Difference being that whilst our old blokes aren’t playing big roles at AFL level anymore, Carlton has more older blokes that are still absolutely critical to Carlton - Murphy, Simpson, Kreuzer, Casboult, E.Curnow.