Opinion Stephen Silvagni

Jeremias

Formerly 'jernoine'
Sep 26, 2004
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Great. So that's one opinion in many.

We get it, you don't like OBrien. But in discussing the Swans taking Stevens in the last week, Twomey said that they were desperate to draft him in 2017. They had pick 14. It's hardly a massive reach.
But other clubs laughed at us!!!

:rolleyes:
 

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HARKER

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This is the first year to me that we actually used the rookie draft for players with upside rather than recycled spuds. So are you saying that SOS didn't get his way this year?
I'm not saying that but as was evident after the draft, I was thrilled with our approach.
An approach I feel we could have invested in a couple of years earlier.
Even if Honey and Phillips fail, we've gone after the right types at the right time.
Also, our targets that we 'reached' for via the ND, suit the profile needs for the list.

The reason I don't want to lose SOS now, is that we seem to have everything in place when it comes to what counts.....If SOS doesn't get on with some people at the club so be it. Give him a cage of his own and allow him to do what he does best - Negotiate and broker deals....but that's not going to happen now.
 

Stamos

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Yes that’s right I’ve dared to criticise SOS here at his alter - I guess we have to cue John Cleese for the stoning scene in Life of Brian.

Here Stamos, you have a couple of big flat ones and Kramer you can go with a pointy one and a packet of gravel.
LOL
I'm not saying that SOS is beyond reproach, I'm just saying that you wouldn't be doing a better job.
So you should stop acting like you would be.

And continuing to say that taking O'Brien was a mistake, or that Philp ahead of Robertson was a mistake, at this stage is ridiculous.
We've noted your objections. Come back in 5 years to gloat if you're right.
 

agro

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LOL
I'm not saying that SOS is beyond reproach, I'm just saying that you wouldn't be doing a better job.
So you should stop acting like you would be.

And continuing to say that taking O'Brien was a mistake, or that Philp ahead of Robertson was a mistake, at this stage is ridiculous.
We've noted your objections. Come back in 5 years to gloat if you're right.

I’m giving you inside industry discussion how our drafting is viewed - not acting like how I could have done better.
 

Kramer1

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Yes that’s right I’ve dared to criticise SOS here at his alter - I guess we have to cue John Cleese for the stoning scene in Life of Brian.

Here Stamos, you have a couple of big flat ones and Kramer you can go with a pointy one and a packet of gravel.
Considered criticism is fine mate...but you've potted SOS for picking O'Brien, when run and footskills were clearly two of our biggest needs and what are the names called after O'Brien that show we whiffed on the pick?

Robertson may or may not prove a more astute choice...but you are arguing we need inside midfielders when we chose an inside midfielder.

The same industry supposedly laughing at us all passed on Robertson too.

Kinda seems like you are the one throwing stones.
 

Blue__Balls

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Yes that’s right I’ve dared to criticise SOS here at his alter - I guess we have to cue John Cleese for the stoning scene in Life of Brian.

Here Stamos, you have a couple of big flat ones and Kramer you can go with a pointy one and a packet of gravel.
The criticism seems unwarranted, agro.

You've gone two directions with this:

- We should have taken Robertson because he was the "percentage pick". I've addressed this one and you chose not to respond to those comments. Philp looks like a great character, a great profile, and had a strong U/18 season. I don't know much about Robertson except that he was rated a late first rounder (outside a reach from Freo), a bunch of clubs overlooked him around the time we did, and he was ultimately taken a couple of picks later. He may have had a better statistical output than Philp, but none of us are naive enough to think the recruiters are just going off disposal count. So why are you convinced he's the "safe" choice?

- We should have taken Robertson because we need mids. Well...Philp is a mid. So I don't know what else to say.

Care to elaborate further? I'd love to hear what specific information has led you to your opinion.
 

Stamos

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I’m giving you inside industry discussion how our drafting is viewed - not acting like how I could have done better.

But every time I do I get moderators even having a go because they don’t lije the fact that the industry do laugh at us and have laughed at some of our work.
From a single source though. No 2 clubs' draft boards would be exactly the same, yet you talk in absolutes.

The industry certainly weren't laughing at us for picking Philp (sure, not every club would have taken him there, but several would have, or at least in that range, as we've heard from both Healy and Twomey).
Or O'Brien for that matter.
 

Blue__Balls

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I’m giving you inside industry discussion how our drafting is viewed - not acting like how I could have done better.
My concerns with SOS are crystalized by SOS’s statement after this years draft that our pick 20 “was a free hit” - the implication being that we could pick a “reach” or that it didn’t matter if the pick didn’t come off.

These picks that we engineered should not be treated with such profligacy by SOS - they are valuable, whilst Sam Philp May turn into a good player, the percentage play was picking the still available Robertson.

SOS did a similar thing with pick 10 in 2017 Draft reaching for O’Brien.

Does the hard work in engineering additional picks, or trading away valuable assets in Gibbs and Tuohy, them wastes it on reaching picks and overpaying.

It displays a pigheadedness and naivety.
Is that what that post was? Inside info on "industry discussion"? Because I've reread it a few times and it appears it was just your personal opinion on the draft.

Looking forward to a more comprehensive post from you mate, because you've clearly got strong opinions but I'm struggling to follow the thread back to what has formed them.
 
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People are calling for the sacking of Lloyd, Liddle, everyone - and this is exactly the danger of having someone like SOS in the role he's in at the club. If everyone else is the problem, maybe actually SOS is the problem. But because he's a favourite son people completely lose objectivity.

He's done a brilliant job. But because of who he was as a player and his relationships with the powerbrokers, his influence seemingly went way beyond his stated role. That was fine for a few years but it's the way 'Old Carlton' would operate. Now that his rebuild is nearly done we need to move beyond that kind of attitude, and need to have everyone on the same page. Sacking everyone and keeping SOS isn't going to help - he was leaving anyway in a year.

His legacy is the amazing list he's built. I am really disappointed though that these leaks have come from him and his camp, it's at least one or the other if not both. I don't think that reflects well on him and I would have liked him to go with the decorum Bolton had, even though Bolton no doubt felt pretty hard done by too. There's no need to damage the club on your way out in a pique of fury.

Last thing I'll say - jury is out on Liddle. But what he's shown me is what an enormous backbone he has to take on SOS at Carlton where he felt that SOS was overstepping. Might bode very well for us. He has guts. If not, then he moves on and Prendergast steps in. But I'm going to give him that chance now he'll have the clear air he wants and the list manager he appoints.
I just had to question one thing here. Liddle taking on SOS where SOS has overstepped?

This whole thing appears to have started from Liddle dabbling in recruitment with Brandon Ellis.

Am I missing something in your post?
 
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Rosscoe

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I don't want him to go either, but we could not 'manage' the situation.

Here's what I heard and I must say that some of it could be incorrect and some of it has been raised through the course of the year:
Silvagni has been a thorn in peoples side for some time now, including Boltons. They did not get on.
The real heat started coming on earlier this year when it was realised that SOS wielded too much power at the club.
The heat also contained the way we treated some possible recruits and the way we viewed our later and rookie selections.
Liddle wanted a review of the situation but SOS did not like this idea at all.
Other football department people didn't get on with SOS either and Teague's needs were dismissed. (Big problem)

* I want to see this one play out but it's possible a board member has sided with Liddle, whereas MLG sided with SOS.

This is the interesting part to me should the fight also be in the board room and you know what? It bloody well should be.
Here is how i saw the story go Harks

*Mid year Carlton is in Crisis; Bolton is sacked.

*As a follow up Liddle goes on SEN and says that the list management department will be reviewed.

*SOS reporting to the board (namely Mathieson and Judd as List management is their portfolio) thinks not according to the board you aint.

*He is told otherwise and rejects the review because the development of young players is non linear therefore the review will be subjective.

*We start winning games of football (The players respond).

*Liddle becomes stubborn in the review because he has already gone public with it.

*The board are split because the list seems to be going ok and for the most part SOS is doing a good job and we are beginning to see some real improvement (here is the interesting part for me) however some still want the review that SOS rejects due to the terms he had previously established with board members and also due to its subjective nature.

I am happy with the club taking its time with this decision.
 

therubbernub

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Your 2 positions of bringing the club together/mending past fractures and ‘breaking some eggs’ are contradictory.
the omelet is the bringing together and mending past fractures. Not the egg. The analogy stands. But what I am saying may not be applicable to us. Just saying that there were some ex players at richmond that were being counter productive to "moving on" . Gale played with many of them and was able to negotiate both sides. A bit like Bob Hawke back in the day.
 

Stamos

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the omelet is the bringing together and mending past fractures. Not the egg. The analogy stands. But what I am saying may not be applicable to us. Just saying that there were some ex players at richmond that were being counter productive to "moving on" . Gale played with many of them and was able to negotiate both sides. A bit like Bob Hawke back in the day.
OK, fair enough.
It just seems that Liddle, in the power play with SOS, is doing the opposite to Gale.

SOS is out in a year anyway, right? I just think Liddle should have managed it to a much more agreeable exit.
 

bigm386

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I’m giving you inside industry discussion how our drafting is viewed - not acting like how I could have done better.
Hate to break it to you but I am pretty sure we could take pot shots at every club for a draft or at least a handful of picks that didn't work.

I honestly think Adelaide in terms of talent identification not administration!, Geelong and the Hawks are the 3 best clubs at it.

Look at Melbourne for example they have had more bust picks than most I would suggest, oh and Clayton Oliver was a massive reach.....

Compared to our recent history of fantastic decisions such as Kane Lucas, Blaine Boekhurst including that trade... OH and BROCK ******* MCCLEAN for pick 11.....

SOS is a God send compared to that shit prior.
 
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cookie monster

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Then Liddle has forgotten recent history as to how are List got so bad, which includes Ratten and Malthouse interfering with decisions on who we drafted / traded.
Yes but you'll need to understand the difference between interference and collaboration. Liddle wanted the latter, and because it wasn't forthcoming resorted to the former
 

Stamos

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Yes but you'll need to understand the difference between interference and collaboration. Liddle wanted the latter, and because it wasn't forthcoming resorted to the former
And the interference (or overruling) caused us to blow Pick #1 in the mid-season draft on a player SOS didn't want.
 

Sector 7G

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Yes but you'll need to understand the difference between interference and collaboration. Liddle wanted the latter, and because it wasn't forthcoming resorted to the former
I guess SOS would say that he wanted empowerment to undertake the job he was employed to do and didn't want to be micro managed.

Collaboration would indicate that the CEO has a role to play in list management which I don't believe he does. Liddle needs to focus on the macro and not fall into the trap of trying to be involved in everything.
 

cookie monster

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I guess SOS would say that he wanted empowerment to undertake the job he was employed to do and didn't want to be micro managed.

Collaboration would indicate that the CEO has a role to play in list management which I don't believe he does. Liddle needs to focus on the macro and not fall into the trap of trying to be involved in everything.
Going into bat for a Senior Coach who is being actively ignored on list management is exactly what the CEO should be doing.

The way he went about it was perhaps wrong, but this is the President's problem for letting it get to this.

For me, I'll throw Chris Judd in too. How have MLG and Judd let dysfunction in their football department get to this?
 

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