Opinion Stephen Silvagni

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Don’t see Jarrod Pickett on that list.

Cost us a first rounder didn’t he??
 

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HavUEvaSeenTheRain said:
Kennedy was separate, cost 28
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Oh Christ, so essentially someone that played a massive 17 games, perpetually injured Marchbank and half-forward at best Kennedy for 17 + 28 + steak knives.


:$

We must be the unluckiest campaigners in all the AFL.


The Bighouse said:
A.Saad went in the same trade period for around the same...
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Wasn't Saad on Gold Coasts rookie list and they got him that way? Or do you mean the trade with Essendon, as I believe we tried but he declined or was it something *ed like SOS wasn't interested in him?
 
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I think the ‘list’ is in pretty good shape. We have 11 players out injured, and with a couple out of form they were replaced by... Cuningham and Stocker, both of whom were solid enough today. We’ve got generally good depth at each position and a lot of upside still to come.

The ‘team’ is underperforming. Cripps and Docherty - our captains - are below par. Our young midfielders are mostly playing below what We have seen is their best. And there’s a bunch of guys we can’t get fit.

But honestly, throw a Cripps 38 disposal game in today, including a burst to turn it around a bit quicker in the second quarter and we probably win. In that case we’re singing the praises of SOS - thank god for the depth we have etc...

Swings and roundabouts but as frustrating as it all is I don’t think we are far off (in fact, probably more frustrating because we should be closer to 4-2 or 5-1 despite playing mostly top 8 teams so far)
 
Turned Henderson into Harry. Turned Bell and a 2nd into Curnow. Turned thin air into Martin. Turned a single 1st into Stocker, Kemp and Philp. Gibbs into two 1sts. Fish, TDK, JSOS, Gibbons, Cotters, in the later rounds.

SOS did a fantastic job at getting talent onto the list, especially considering where the club was at in 2015. Development and player conditioning has left a lot to be desired since.

Considering our tough start to the season this thread is quite premature anyway. 2-1 against sides at our level. Losses against some very good, seasoned teams. It opens up from here.
 
Stig O'Hara said:
Don’t see Jarrod Pickett on that list.

Cost us a first rounder didn’t he??
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I think he came with Marchbank as steak knives - cost nothing. Came to us with navicular injury got that fixed - was scary good for a few games - then did his knee in a pre-season and retired. He was pick #4 for GWS if I recall correctly - that Marchbank/Pickett trade was a coulda shoulda been anythign coup - except not.
 
GWS absolutely scammed us in trades :madv1:

OUT
2014
Pick 7
2015
Picks 28, 77, 95
2016
Picks 17, 45, 58, 135


IN
AVERAGE:
Lachie Plowman
Zac Williams

FAILING:
Matt Kennedy
Will Setterfield
Caleb Marchbank

BUST:
Kristian Jaksch
Mark Whiley
Jarrod Garlett
Rhys Palmer
Jed Lamb
Andrew Phillips
Liam Sumner
 
Think people are mixing up Jarrod Garlett & Jarrod Pickett.😎
 
The Old Dark Navy's said:
Adding in deadwood that cost us nothing is mischievous.
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Hardly mischievous. Highly factual.

Take your point about getting hardened bodies in to the team, hence why I put Wright in the pass list. In all faieness, probably should have put Kerridge and Phillips in there too for the same reason as they were serviceable. However everyone else on that list is a genuine fail (IMO)
 
CarltonBlooz said:
Wasn't Saad on Gold Coasts rookie list and they got him that way? Or do you mean the trade with Essendon, as I believe we tried but he declined or was it something ******ed like SOS wasn't interested in him?
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Believe it was the latter for the cost &/or rating. 2017 future 2nd*coughed up vs 2020#8.
*Ended up going to WCE who selected Bailey Williams.
MK pick = Sam Taylor to GWS.
 
TENACIOUS said:
GWS absolutely scammed us in trades :madv1:

OUT
2014
Pick 7
2015
Picks 28, 77, 95
2016
Picks 17, 45, 58, 135


IN
AVERAGE:
Lachie Plowman
Zac Williams

FAILING:
Matt Kennedy
Will Setterfield
Caleb Marchbank

BUST:
Kristian Jaksch
Mark Whiley
Jarrod Garlett
Rhys Palmer
Jed Lamb
Andrew Phillips
Liam Sumner
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Just to be clear: I get that you're listing the GWS trades with Carlton, but this is the SOS thread. SOS got here in 2015, and has made more than enough blues of his own before you add the ones that happened before he arrived.
 

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SOS paid very little for most of our top-up and injury prone players bar one or two.

Most of our genuine currency went towards top draft picks that almost every club would have picked up around the same mark. So many possible failures with said picks is far more indicative of a development/culture problem than a recruiting one imo.

SPS looked exciting and promising in his first year - so did Dow and Williamson. O'Brien was looking pretty decent in 2019 ... where has it all gone? It's not too late for any of these guys by any stretch but it has to be questioned.

If I had one genuine criticism of SOS it would be his lack of ability to find gold late in the draft and in the rookie draft, and I feel that this has quite possibly been corrected with his replacement/s.
 
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I think we should blame sos for the club having 2 wins & 4 losses this season. Can’t believe he left 2.5 million in the capped when he departed. I can’t understand why he left Casboult and Betts on the list this season. Can’t believe he gifts players out of form games. Can you believe he thought Zac Williams was a midfielder and is worth 900k a year. Didn’t he know that he had no endurance? Can you believe he gave up pick 8 for Saad? What was he thinking when he employed David Teague? Why has he kept John Barker as an assistant coach for 12 years. Why did he admit that the coaching panel isn’t up to it by employing Worsfold as a mentor after 5 games had been played. Can’t believe he can’t get Charlie, Marchbank, JSOS, Fisher, Martin, Philip, Kemp and TDK healthy and fit. That’s right he employed Russell. I blame him for not playing Setterfield, Dow and Kennedy in the midfield but on the wings and HF. I blame him for not playing JSOS in the midfield after beating Fyffe and Oliver two weeks in a row and never playing there again. I blame him for the selection of that team yesterday. I blame him for our goal kicking. I blame him for Gibbons softness. I blame him for Stocker playing HB and not in the middle. I blame him for Teague’s hair thinning. I blame him for putting our CEO, our President, our Football Operations Manager under pressure because he didn’t coach us yesterday.
“I just blame him”
 
Some of our supporters have gone crazy since last nights 3 goal loss to a decent Brisbane side. We’ve basically been in every game this year and lost to some very good side. These losses have been suffered after gifting games to too many passengers. Murphy, Levi, Betts, McGovern, Newnes, Cottrell, Gibbons. Too many passengers, it isn’t just 1 or 2. I would be confident that we could get at least something from Owies, Ramsay, Honey if they were to replace some of them. We have Durdin (needs a solid month in the twos) and Carroll (injured atm unfortunately). We have injuries to key personnel in JSOS, Newman, TDK, Martin, Fisher, I mean c’mon. We have Charlie and Kemp further away but we will see them this year.

I have counted 7 passengers in the seniors and 12 players not playing right now. This is not a 2-4 side. This is a side who gift games to too many passengers because unfortunately we have too many injuries and players who need time in the twos. This is a side with a full complement of players could have been 4-2 or even 5-1. The sky is not falling, people!
 
Ricky Mott said:
I think we should blame sos for the club having 2 wins & 4 losses this season. Can’t believe he left 2.5 million in the capped when he departed. I can’t understand why he left Casboult and Betts on the list this season. Can’t believe he gifts players out of form games. Can you believe he thought Zac Williams was a midfielder and is worth 900k a year. Didn’t he know that he had no endurance? Can you believe he gave up pick 8 for Saad? What was he thinking when he employed David Teague? Why has he kept John Barker as an assistant coach for 12 years. Why did he admit that the coaching panel isn’t up to it by employing Worsfold as a mentor after 5 games had been played. Can’t believe he can’t get Charlie, Marchbank, JSOS, Fisher, Martin, Philip, Kemp and TDK healthy and fit. That’s right he employed Russell. I blame him for not playing Setterfield, Dow and Kennedy in the midfield but on the wings and HF. I blame him for not playing JSOS in the midfield after beating Fyffe and Oliver two weeks in a row and never playing there again. I blame him for the selection of that team yesterday. I blame him for our goal kicking. I blame him for Gibbons softness. I blame him for Stocker playing HB and not in the middle. I blame him for Teague’s hair thinning. I blame him for putting our CEO, our President, our Football Operations Manager under pressure because he didn’t coach us yesterday.
“I just blame him”
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We should blame him for having five years to find midfielders and the only one he could get was Walsh who was gifted to us for finishing bottom. I know he went all out offering $7million dollar contracts to Shiel and Coniglio but had they actually agreed to come then that would’ve been an even bigger disaster.
We have problems at all levels but there are ligitimate questions to be asked about his tenure
 
HavUEvaSeenTheRain said:
We should blame him for having five years to find midfielders and the only one he could get was Walsh who was gifted to us for finishing bottom. I know he went all out offering $7million dollar contracts to Shiel and Coniglio but had they actually agreed to come then that would’ve been an even bigger disaster.
We have problems at all levels but there are ligitimate questions to be asked about his tenure
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I think you’ll find we have young midfielders in our back yard but our coaches won’t play them and can’t develop them.
Watch what our next coach will do.
 
HavUEvaSeenTheRain said:
We should blame him for having five years to find midfielders and the only one he could get was Walsh who was gifted to us for finishing bottom. I know he went all out offering $7million dollar contracts to Shiel and Coniglio but had they actually agreed to come then that would’ve been an even bigger disaster.
We have problems at all levels but there are ligitimate questions to be asked about his tenure
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Dow, Stocker, Kennedy, Setterfield, Philp, Kemp, SPS, Cuners, Gibbons? All drafted or traded in as mids.

Our player development and medical department is shocking. You can’t tell me there isn’t one AFL quality midfielder in that list. Just one?

Walsh got out alive because he is a freak of nature and internally driven to an almost weird level, not because we’ve developed him correctly.
 
Kreuuuzeurns said:
Dow, Stocker, Kennedy, Setterfield, Philp, Kemp, SPS, Cuners, Gibbons? All drafted or traded in as mids.

Our player development and medical department is shocking. You can’t tell me there isn’t one AFL quality midfielder in that list. Just one?

Walsh got out alive because he is a freak of nature and internally driven to an almost weird level, not because we’ve developed him correctly.
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SPS, Setterfield, Kennedy and Stoker are all poor runners and not freaks so possibly they are not suited to the modern game as mids. Cuners was seen as abit of a reach but looks ok, Dow is Dow, Gibbons has been a very good rookie pick. The other two are too young to have any idea about though Philp didn’t come across as high end talent when he was drafted.

tell me a club who develops players well and I’ll show you constant misses too. Look at Higgins, Rioli, RCD and Dow at Richmond. How many of those are staring because of development? Look at Geelong’s history of stuffing up first rounders.
there are busts regardless of development
 
HavUEvaSeenTheRain said:
SPS, Setterfield, Kennedy and Stoker are all poor runners and not freaks so possibly they are not suited to the modern game as mids. Cuners was seen as abit of a reach but looks ok, Dow is Dow, Gibbons has been a very good rookie pick. The other two are too young to have any idea about though Philp didn’t come across as high end talent when he was drafted.

tell me a club who develops players well and I’ll show you constant misses too. Look at Higgins, Rioli, RCD and Dow at Richmond. How many of those are staring because of development? Look at Geelong’s history of stuffing up first rounders.
there are busts regardless of development
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Higgins is a more than handy best 22 player, Rioli has played 100 odd games already and Dow/RCD are ticking along in the 2s, which is where kids should be if they are not ready.

I notice you didn’t mention Bolton or Baker or Graham or Ross? All taken outside the top 25 and all playing great footy in a top 4 side.

We should be able to find just one AFL standard mid from that list of players I mentioned. To not even find one is appalling. Development and conditioning first and foremost for mine.
 
reg_lower91 said:
Hardly mischievous. Highly factual.

Take your point about getting hardened bodies in to the team, hence why I put Wright in the pass list. In all faieness, probably should have put Kerridge and Phillips in there too for the same reason as they were serviceable. However everyone else on that list is a genuine fail (IMO)
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Richmond did the same thing during their rebuild, they brought in truckloads of mature players through their rebuild who went out as quick as they came in. It's impossible to draft only good young players and you can't have a list of kids. It didn't stop them becoming a powerhouse and it shouldn't stop us. We have drafted more than enough young players, we have drafted heaps of them, if they don't turn out it's because they aren't good enough or we haven't developed their games properly.
 
Kreuuuzeurns said:
Higgins is a more than handy best 22 player, Rioli has played 100 odd games already and Dow/RCD are ticking along in the 2s, which is where kids should be if they are not ready.

I notice you didn’t mention Bolton or Baker or Graham or Ross? All taken outside the top 25 and all playing great footy in a top 4 side.

We should be able to find just one AFL standard mid from that list of players I mentioned. To not even find one is appalling. Development and conditioning first and foremost for mine.
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I didn’t mention them because they weren’t highly rated yet they developed into good players. That’s the entire point, some players can be developed others can’t because they just don’t have it. Look at Geelong for the best example. They can’t develop the players they rated really highly like Smedts, Lang etc because they aren’t any good but can turn players like Blicavs and Stewart into guns because they actually have it.

Rioli will probably be dropped again even with 100 games of experience under his belt, right place at the right time. He has every single attribute you need to be a gun and is a very average player.
Higgins is a solid player, nothing more. RCD is only a few months older then P Dow, and T Dow is just a kid. C Ellis and Lennon were the two first rounders they took before Rioli.

C Ellis they took at 12 and couldn’t develop but they could develop Butler (67) and rookies Short, Lambert and Castagna from the same draft. Logic suggests Ellis was just a crap pick while those other guys were great.

I think it probably comes down to the types we took abit too. SPS, Setterfield, Stoker, Kennedy and Dow all have poor tanks and most are slow. That’s not how the modern game is played. Cripps is an absolute superstar and gets found out because of these issues so so will lesser players. Sure they can all make it and I rate most of them but they certainly have traits that makes it possible they won’t. They also have to play next to Cripps which stuffs our balance and makes it harder for them.
 
Gethelred said:
You do not watch football outside of the ones, and we are lucky to have you grace us with your presence when we lose. Suffice to say, I treat your opinion with what it deserves; the same consideration I would provide an ant crawling in my kitchen.

Shoo, and put the bread away!
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I don’t give two shits what you think of my opinion.

What did I say that was incorrect?
 
HavUEvaSeenTheRain said:
I didn’t mention them because they weren’t highly rated yet they developed into good players. That’s the entire point, some players can be developed others can’t because they just don’t have it. Look at Geelong for the best example. They can’t develop the players they rated really highly like Smedts, Lang etc because they aren’t any good but can turn players like Blicavs and Stewart into guns because they actually have it.

Rioli will probably be dropped again even with 100 games of experience under his belt, right place at the right time. He has every single attribute you need to be a gun and is a very average player.
Higgins is a solid player, nothing more. RCD is only a few months older then P Dow, and T Dow is just a kid. C Ellis and Lennon were the two first rounders they took before Rioli.

C Ellis they took at 12 and couldn’t develop but they could develop Butler (67) and rookies Short, Lambert and Castagna from the same draft. Logic suggests Ellis was just a crap pick while those other guys were great.

I think it probably comes down to the types we took abit too. SPS, Setterfield, Stoker, Kennedy and Dow all have poor tanks and most are slow. That’s not how the modern game is played. Cripps is an absolute superstar and gets found out because of these issues so so will lesser players. Sure they can all make it and I rate most of them but they certainly have traits that makes it possible they won’t. They also have to play next to Cripps which stuffs our balance and makes it harder for them.
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Agree to disagree. A few of them may be crap picks, which is to be expected. I don’t think all 9 (10 if you include O’Brien) were crap picks.

FWIW I think Setterfield and Stocker will be a very good players for the club and SPS should be fine once moved back up the ground with his confidence back. The back pocket experiment hasn’t worked, lets rectify it.
 
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