Opinion Stephen Silvagni

Blue1980

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Of course. We miss this often and feel that later ND picks are RD picks are solely for development types?

Point here should be though that if you are going for development types, earmark players where gaps present.
If they don't work out, they don't work out but you tried and list gaps open up opportunity. We can get what may seem to the better player but what's the point if he's a type we have an abundance of? Very little point at all. Not sure why we keep doing this.
Exactly, if we are going for project types why not go small forwards? Big bodied mid? Things we actually lack.

Kerr is the obvious example of what you are saying, have an abundance of tall forwards as it was so what was the point? Then we go get McGovern anyway further pushing him to the fringes.

The only conceivable reason SOS went for Garlett instead of a state league player of similar age is because he must of liked him in his original draft year, we need to stop making those mistakes.
 

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Doro

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Exactly, if we are going for project types why not go small forwards? Big bodied mid? Things we actually lack.

Kerr is the obvious example of what you are saying, have an abundance of tall forwards as it was so what was the point? Then we go get McGovern anyway further pushing him to the fringes.

The only conceivable reason SOS went for Garlett instead of a state league player of similar age is because he must of liked him in his original draft year, we need to stop making those mistakes.
Kerr was 1 year into the rebuild, after taking the 18 y.o Curnow ( possible mid at the time) and Harry the previous year. Hardly an overload.
 
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We could have gone a Hodge like route, GWS did with Chad cornes, Brogan etc. instead we get mid 20s guys in like O’Shea, mullet and Shaw who weren’t even in a position of need from a structural perspective let alone provided any leadership.
Not many Hodge type deals out there. Hodge himself did it to help Fagan.

We could have taken Brendon Goddard but he isn't necessarily the type of personality we needed right now.

McVeigh would have been good but he stayed with the Swans.

Barlow? Yeah, a Suns delisted player isn't the same as a gun with a year left in the tank.

I'm struggling to think of any good players who may be forced into retirement aside from Roughy and he doesn't suit our needs.

If Mundy wants 2 years, come on down.

Isaac Smith is 31 and contracted for next year. I'd give him good coin for 2 years if the Hawks need cap space.
 

ItsAllAboutMe

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Not many Hodge type deals out there. Hodge himself did it to help Fagan.

We could have taken Brendon Goddard but he isn't necessarily the type of personality we needed right now.

McVeigh would have been good but he stayed with the Swans.

Barlow? Yeah, a Suns delisted player isn't the same as a gun with a year left in the tank.

I'm struggling to think of any good players who may be forced into retirement aside from Roughy and he doesn't suit our needs.

If Mundy wants 2 years, come on down.

Isaac Smith is 31 and contracted for next year. I'd give him good coin for 2 years if the Hawks need cap space.
It doesn’t have to be forced into retirement, it might be a player who is only offered a 1 year contract and we are prepared to offer 3. What about Paul Puopolo?
 
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It doesn’t have to be forced into retirement, it might be a player who is only offered a 1 year contract and we are prepared to offer 3. What about Paul Puopolo?
He'd be perfect. Going to be hard to prise any of those Hawks loose to come to us. Suckling went but Dogs were promising.

You'd have to hope they have an astute eye for talent and how fast things could turn around.
 

ItsAllAboutMe

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He'd be perfect. Going to be hard to prise any of those Hawks loose to come to us. Suckling went but Dogs were promising.

You'd have to hope they have an astute eye for talent and how fast things could turn around.
Yes but a player like him would have seen Mitchell, Lewis get churned out and now Roughy pushes aside to make way for the next gen and think it’s better to play a few years at Carlton, earn more $ than to play at Box Hill. He is 31, we offer him 3 years at $500k and even if he only plays 2 good ones he fills an immediate need for us.
 

Blue1980

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Not many Hodge type deals out there. Hodge himself did it to help Fagan.

We could have taken Brendon Goddard but he isn't necessarily the type of personality we needed right now.

McVeigh would have been good but he stayed with the Swans.

Barlow? Yeah, a Suns delisted player isn't the same as a gun with a year left in the tank.

I'm struggling to think of any good players who may be forced into retirement aside from Roughy and he doesn't suit our needs.

If Mundy wants 2 years, come on down.

Isaac Smith is 31 and contracted for next year. I'd give him good coin for 2 years if the Hawks need cap space.
Well Hodge types aren’t easy to find true, but I mean I know we are bad but surely that doesn’t mean we just have to settle for getting Cam O’Shea and Aaron Mullett.

Seems we were getting guys who could theoretically play 100 games because of their age, when in reality is if someone isn’t any good and 25 they won’t be playing 100 games for us.

Better off going the 30-32 year old you know can play for a couple of years and provide more leadership and better football.

Even then though surely there were enough fringe guys from decent sides we could of got in for next to nothing like we did with Newman?
 

Soapy V

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Not many Hodge type deals out there. Hodge himself did it to help Fagan.

We could have taken Brendon Goddard but he isn't necessarily the type of personality we needed right now.

McVeigh would have been good but he stayed with the Swans.

Barlow? Yeah, a Suns delisted player isn't the same as a gun with a year left in the tank.

I'm struggling to think of any good players who may be forced into retirement aside from Roughy and he doesn't suit our needs.

If Mundy wants 2 years, come on down.

Isaac Smith is 31 and contracted for next year. I'd give him good coin for 2 years if the Hawks need cap space.
A few names that are long shots but I would be speaking with to help play for a year or 3 then to coach are

Travis Boak
Josh Kennedy (Swans)
Callan Ward
Ben Cunnington
David Mundy


To get one of these would really help
 

BluesRule

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Kerr was 1 year into the rebuild, after taking the 18 y.o Curnow ( possible mid at the time) and Harry the previous year. Hardly an overload.
Kerr is developing nicely in the NB's and I hope he gets a start in the AFL soon. How often do we select a good tall with a late selection? Well done SOS.
And what happens if we lose McKay or Curnow?
Great that SOS is building depth across the park
 

LemmingMaster

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A few names that are long shots but I would be speaking with to help play for a year or 3 then to coach are

Travis Boak
Josh Kennedy (Swans)
Callan Ward
Ben Cunnington
David Mundy


To get one of these would really help
I think what Carlton would want are players with great leadership ability. Then players looking to move into coaching would also be highly valuable. You know that they would be attempting to show our younger players what is expected.

Most of those names seem to hit the mark about leadership, just unsure if they want to head into coaching.
 

Soapy V

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I think what Carlton would want are players with great leadership ability. Then players looking to move into coaching would also be highly valuable. You know that they would be attempting to show our younger players what is expected.

Most of those names seem to hit the mark about leadership, just unsure if they want to head into coaching.
Agree and that's why we need to ask. I think one of these or these types of players are what we need
 

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HARKER

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Exactly, if we are going for project types why not go small forwards? Big bodied mid? Things we actually lack.

Kerr is the obvious example of what you are saying, have an abundance of tall forwards as it was so what was the point? Then we go get McGovern anyway further pushing him to the fringes.

The only conceivable reason SOS went for Garlett instead of a state league player of similar age is because he must of liked him in his original draft year, we need to stop making those mistakes.
I don't mind having certain types developing for longer periods through the Northern Blues, as long as they understand that.
It's easy to become disillusioned for a. Playing at this level b. Losing as consistently as we do c. The structures not allowing you to display your wares.

If we do have these developing players that's fine, but we then have to clear the decks of the older guys getting in their way.
Right now we're alternating Lobbe and Phillips in the forward line and what happens when TDK comes back? What's best for his development? Playing third-ruck or being given space to breathe and develop. Same went for Macreadie, as we had Rowe, O'Shea, JGM etc crowding him taking a premium spot and stifling his development.

A lot comes down to balance for me. A balanced listed affords better opportunity.
 

Moody Blue

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Unfortunately there was virtually nothing to 'gut'.

Holman, Gowers, Lamb, Kerridge we arguably should have kept. Gibbs walked out. Dochertys knee is a disaster. Tuohy was a contentious one. Did we lose anyone else of value since Silvagni came on board?
Interesting to see what happens with JSOS. His contract is up. Going to cause a lot of friction if he is cut.
Jacobs requested a trade to Adelaide.
After it was made perfectly clear to him that he was behind Warnock and Kreuzer in the pecking list.
 

HBF

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Setterfield doing incredibly well for young kid coming back from a knee.

McGovern needs to get fit and he will

Cuningham close to exploding

Dow and O’Brien need to be AFL fit and strong which will be focus this pre season

Stocker & Walsh will be guns

I’m excited about SPS off HB

McKay & Charlie will be stars and TDK to come

Weitering is already a top line KPD

Can’t wait to see Williamson Docherty Pickett all fit and firing


And there is a lot more
We just need to find a coach to bring the best out of these players.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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How much did these guys cost us? What other options were available instead, who was picked with the picks after the one we used etc?
How about instead of trotting out the same shot the c grade journo hacks are, how about you provide some context and analysis? Or maybe you don’t know/understand yourself!
Obviously they are list spots so have cost us opportunities of finding other players, ever how small that is. Mostly though hey have cost us multi millions in salary cap room and maybe paying one player like Rockliff overs would’ve been a better bet. We actually could’ve over paid a couple with that.
 

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He's national drafting has been nearly bang on few players Cuningham McKay Macreadie Williamson have missed large chunks of games through injuries missing valuable development.
Probably Polson is the only cross ATM from all of national draft selections and he was a pick 59 few others probably need another season or two at least for a better guide.
His Rookie drafting and delisted players along with a few trades have been pretty ordinary at best
Shaw, O'Shea, Palmer, Mullet, Gorringe, Lobbe, Smedts were horrible additions big busts
Understand the needing roll players to support the drafted kids but this is where it was poorly executed particularly the way we neglected particular positional players we obviously needed and still do.
SOS has done a great job but can get better...
Wouldn't say Lobbe was a bust per se - was only brought over for depth in a position where we had very little.
 

Moody Blue

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Excuse me, why would Jack be cut???
There is some speculation. It would be an extraordinary decision if they did, but a new coach may have a different view.
FWIW if we could ever get Buckley, I would support him 100% just based on his comments about the Donald Trump of Footy...MM.
 

WFGodot

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For all that has been written about Silvagni as list manager, the system conspires against sides who languish at the bottom.
With 18 sides, there is simply not enough talent to spread if your strategy is to go hard at the draft. Realistically, you can rarely get your hands on one or two quality picks in the 1st round unless you are prepared to off load ready made stars. When you add free agency to the mix and the likelihood of missing out on players hungry for success - after all who wants to come in at the bottom - the strike rate has to be very high. I don't think he's done a bad job but so much has to go right and even if you get it right more often than not, injury combined with lack of depth can test even the best list management strategy. Just my thoughts on the matter...
 

Gethelred

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There is some speculation. It would be an extraordinary decision if they did, but a new coach may have a different view.
FWIW if we could ever get Buckley, I would support him 100% just based on his comments about the Donald Trump of Footy...MM.
From who?
Traded...for Parish??
FMD.
 

Gethelred

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For all that has been written about Silvagni as list manager, the system conspires against sides who languish at the bottom.
With 18 sides, there is simply not enough talent to spread if your strategy is to go hard at the draft. Realistically, you can rarely get your hands on one or two quality picks in the 1st round unless you are prepared to off load ready made stars. When you add free agency to the mix and the likelihood of missing out on players hungry for success - after all who wants to come in at the bottom - the strike rate has to be very high. I don't think he's done a bad job but so much has to go right and even if you get it right more often than not, injury combined with lack of depth can test even the best list management strategy. Just my thoughts on the matter...
That which has crueled us has more to do with our rehab and injury department than our recruiting. Had Kreuzer stayed on the park for the majority of the last two years instead of playing under a quarter of those games, how many more games would we have won? Would Marchbank have become the player he shows sometimes if he had anything resembling continuity? Pickett, if he stopped getting injured just as he enters into decent physical shape?

On one hand, you could try to argue that SOS has thrown the dice a bit when it comes to trades, bringing in players who have been injured. On the other, how else are we meant to get in quality?

Having said all of that, I dislike the bolded. It smacks of a victim mentality, and renders you defeated before you even began to try.
 
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