Opinion Stephen Silvagni

GapInIkonPark

Club Legend
Nov 22, 2015
2,890
4,344
AFL Club
Carlton
For all the players let go only 6 had trade value:

Henderson, Yarran, Bell, Menzel, Tuohy and Gibbs.


And only 3 are DFA’s at other clubs ... Buckley, Gowers and Holman.


So over 40 players not taken by other clubs.


We really only have Cripps left to show for our drafting since ... 2007 ... until SOS started. We p***** our selections on Lucas, Bootsma, Watson, Boekhorst, Jaksch, Whiley, Russell (1 good year), Menzel and Yarran. Trades since 2007 until SOS got us Docherty, Jones and (FA) Thomas.


We started a long way back.
We do not have a core group of big body midfielders.
We are playing 10-14 players each week in their first 4 years, which is at least 5 -7 more than any other club.

There are a few swings and roundabouts:

If we had got Tomlinson, most likely we wouldn’t have got McKay.
If we had got Shiel, most likely we wouldn’t have got Walsh, Stocker, Setterfield.
If we hung onto Gibbs, then unlikely all of O’Brien, Kennedy and TDK.


DFAs and salary dumps have not worked out (except for Wright) ... Gorringe, O’Shea, Mullett, Shaw, Palmer, Lobbe, Smedts ...

Drafting Garlett I think was worth the try.
The 5 in 2015 (Weitering, McKay, Charlie, Cuningham and Jack) are all pretty solid.
Happy with SPS, Fisher, Macreadie and Williamson in 2016 (unlucky with Willo’s injuries). Not sold on Polson and Kerr.
Dow and O’Brien - perhaps only Stephenson (and Kelly) doing better from 2017. Not Rayner, not Richards ... Schumacher progressing ok.
Walsh can really football and Stocker was tracking well before injury.

Trades -
Plowman, Phillips, Marchbank, Kennedy, McGovern, Setterfield and Newman.

really disappointed Pickett did not work out. Fasolo and Lang not sure.


Reportedly we went for Tomlinson, Smith, Shiel, Rockliff, Saad ...


It is a hard caper, I think SOS is doing pretty well.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Bamboo Harvester

Club Legend
Sep 19, 2018
1,449
5,227
Shark Bay
AFL Club
Carlton
For all the players let go only 6 had trade value:

Henderson, Yarran, Bell, Menzel, Tuohy and Gibbs.


And only 3 are DFA’s at other clubs ... Buckley, Gowers and Holman.


So over 40 players not taken by other clubs.


We really only have Cripps left to show for our drafting since ... 2007 ... until SOS started. We p***** our selections on Lucas, Bootsma, Watson, Boekhorst, Jaksch, Whiley, Russell (1 good year), Menzel and Yarran. Trades since 2007 until SOS got us Docherty, Jones and (FA) Thomas.


We started a long way back.
We do not have a core group of big body midfielders.
We are playing 10-14 players each week in their first 4 years, which is at least 5 -7 more than any other club.

There are a few swings and roundabouts:

If we had got Tomlinson, most likely we wouldn’t have got McKay.
If we had got Shiel, most likely we wouldn’t have got Walsh, Stocker, Setterfield.
If we hung onto Gibbs, then unlikely all of O’Brien, Kennedy and TDK.


DFAs and salary dumps have not worked out (except for Wright) ... Gorringe, O’Shea, Mullett, Shaw, Palmer, Lobbe, Smedts ...

Drafting Garlett I think was worth the try.
The 5 in 2015 (Weitering, McKay, Charlie, Cuningham and Jack) are all pretty solid.
Happy with SPS, Fisher, Macreadie and Williamson in 2016 (unlucky with Willo’s injuries). Not sold on Polson and Kerr.
Dow and O’Brien - perhaps only Stephenson (and Kelly) doing better from 2017. Not Rayner, not Richards ... Schumacher progressing ok.
Walsh can really football and Stocker was tracking well before injury.

Trades -
Plowman, Phillips, Marchbank, Kennedy, McGovern, Setterfield and Newman.

really disappointed Pickett did not work out. Fasolo and Lang not sure.


Reportedly we went for Tomlinson, Smith, Shiel, Rockliff, Saad ...


It is a hard caper, I think SOS is doing pretty well.
Great post :thumbsu:
 

FRUMPY

Norm Smith Medallist
Suspended
Aug 18, 2006
9,159
8,137
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
The knob on your head get bigger and bigger ….. report it …. come at me.

You lambast his trades without thorough research. It ******* bores me.
oh diddums, the fact I now know it bores you just makes it all the more fun.

From the top of my head, apart from Marchbank and Plowman (too early on Setterfield), none of the GWS trades/acquisitions have been any good. Its a bad record for a bloke who had inside knowledge of all these players and the capabilities.

Some may have been done to take on deadwood to get a better pick or deal later on but its also a big reason we have such an uneven list and are getting flogged.

And what would I report? and why would I come at you? or did you mean on you? fetish of yours?
 

Blues90

Club Legend
Oct 24, 2015
1,190
1,482
AFL Club
Carlton
Lol look at what he had to work with when he came? There were maybe 3 or 4 players he was able to make extra picks out of and the rest of them that have gone how many are on another list? SOS did a fantastic job doing his best to build something out of nothing. If it wasn't for what he did we would still be 2 years further behind from where we are now. You can't blame sos for playing players out of position having a zone that always had a wall of opposition players to stop any transition near the other end. You can't blame sos for playing too many young players in the centre bounces and on ball and playing players out of position in general. You also can't blame sos for having such a crap list when he got there that we couldn't attract any decent players. Literally trying to make a dollar out of 15 cents and hes just about there
 

Blue__Balls

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 22, 2014
6,509
17,509
AFL Club
Carlton
oh diddums, the fact I now know it bores you just makes it all the more fun.

From the top of my head, apart from Marchbank and Plowman (too early on Setterfield), none of the GWS trades/acquisitions have been any good. Its a bad record for a bloke who had inside knowledge of all these players and the capabilities.

Some may have been done to take on deadwood to get a better pick or deal later on but its also a big reason we have such an uneven list and are getting flogged.

And what would I report? and why would I come at you? or did you mean on you? fetish of yours?
You're right that there was an element of taking on "dead wood" to sweeten the trade for GWS, thus getting a better deal on preferred players. There's other considerations too though.

The players that have done "a job" (including non-GWS budget picks):

Plowman and Marchbank still going.
Wright was a solid pickup.
Kerridge did a job (not super well, but was still a contributor).
Lamb played a decent role for a few years.
Phillips has offered some support when Kreuzer has been injured.
Mullett was serviceable with our backline decimated.
Lobbe as per Phillips.

Players that didn't work out at all:

Sumner, Gorringe, Smedts, Palmer, Pickett, O'Shea, Shaw

Jury still out on:

Kennedy, Lang, Fasolo

But you also need to consider that every one of those players taken for a ridiculously low price was one more player we could delist.

Pass on Sumner, Gorringe, Palmer, Pickett, O'Shea, Shaw and you've gotta hold some of the following for longer: Watson, Giles, Johnson, Russell, Warnock, Walsh, Fields, Wood, Dick, Foster, Smith, Everitt, Tutt, Rainbow, Whiley, etc. or plug those gaps with rookie picks. Maybe some mature age rookies would have been more effective? Possible. But we were clearly targeting mature age players with some experience at AFL level to balance the number of kids we were recruiting.
 

Blues90

Club Legend
Oct 24, 2015
1,190
1,482
AFL Club
Carlton
So......SOS had a catch-up with Lyon about coaching?
Or maybe it was just friends catching up? Not everything is always deception... remember when Bolton was seen with Saint Nick and everyone spent ages going over it when it was actually just catching up? Happens
 

F_therest

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 3, 2013
12,004
19,675
AFL Club
Carlton
Glad to hear it. So what's changed?

SOS has been a great manufacturer of deals and even for what hasn't come up trumps.....he can only learn and/or delegate to Agresta and Brodie.
IIRC Brodie and Agresta were/are pretty highly rated.

So another tick for SOS that i don't see him get much credit for on here, is bringing across a highly rated team to work with him.

We can feel pretty comfortable that our list management is in good hands under those 3. Unlike before.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

F_therest

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 3, 2013
12,004
19,675
AFL Club
Carlton
Good. Polarising character for sure but he's building (not built, job's not done yet) a great list. He's gotta finish what he started.
Not sure what makes him polarising.
People will always question a clubs list management decisions when we've been as bad as we have i guess.

But they are all about the now and aren't interested in looking into the future.

If in 3 years we win a premiership or at least get into the top 4, we'll suddenly start seeing articles about how SOS has done an amazing job rebuilding Carlton's list and naming all his hits, rather than his misses.
 

Doro

Club Legend
Sep 22, 2011
2,817
3,828
62 West Wallaby St.
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Wensleydale Wanderers
Not sure what makes him polarising.
People will always question a clubs list management decisions when we've been as bad as we have i guess.

But they are all about the now and aren't interested in looking into the future.

If in 3 years we win a premiership or at least get into the top 4, we'll suddenly start seeing articles about how SOS has done an amazing job rebuilding Carlton's list and naming all his hits, rather than his misses.
Think he rubs the opposition up the wrong way a little like Dodoro, a list is it's own evidence of its manager though - we're in a good place to continue building.
 

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Oct 15, 2008
49,941
66,555
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Could be that with Bolton having being ousted, has somewhat freed things up around the club.

One always hears things after the fact and that doesn't necessarily make them true, but given some things that are floating about, there may be plenty to be glad to have seen the back of Bolton....for better or worse.


Would like to see Agresta take a stronger position around the place.
He's the one we were all excited about brining on board for his strike rate at the lower levels of the draft and rookies.

SOS does love Brodie....or at least he used to. :)
 

F_therest

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 3, 2013
12,004
19,675
AFL Club
Carlton
Think he rubs the opposition up the wrong way a little like Dodoro, a list is it's own evidence of its manager though - we're in a good place to continue building.
Agree, and I think part of the reason why is SOS has that 'alpha male', cut the ********, direct kind of approach that would rub opposition the wrong way at times. The interview with Caro showed a bit of what he could be like in a tense negotiation.

But it's great for us to have such a strong and commanding guy leading our list management and taking no prisoners. He certainly won't be intimidated or pushed around that's for sure, and he's shown that in the last few years when the likes of Adelaide and GWS were trying to screw us but SOS held firm and they relented in the final hour of trade week.
 

Doro

Club Legend
Sep 22, 2011
2,817
3,828
62 West Wallaby St.
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Wensleydale Wanderers
Agree, and I think part of the reason why is SOS has that 'alpha male', cut the ********, direct kind of approach that would rub opposition the wrong way at times. The interview with Caro showed a bit of what he could be like in a tense negotiation.

But it's great for us to have such a strong and commanding guy leading our list management and taking no prisoners. He certainly won't be intimidated or pushed around that's for sure, and he's shown that in the last few years when the likes of Adelaide and GWS were trying to screw us but SOS held firm and they relented in the final hour of trade week.
Yeah for sure. We had Mr Nice guy in Rogers and his list spoke for itself as well.
 

Blues90

Club Legend
Oct 24, 2015
1,190
1,482
AFL Club
Carlton
Agree, and I think part of the reason why is SOS has that 'alpha male', cut the ********, direct kind of approach that would rub opposition the wrong way at times. The interview with Caro showed a bit of what he could be like in a tense negotiation.

But it's great for us to have such a strong and commanding guy leading our list management and taking no prisoners. He certainly won't be intimidated or pushed around that's for sure, and he's shown that in the last few years when the likes of Adelaide and GWS were trying to screw us but SOS held firm and they relented in the final hour of trade week.
Caro will literally push and push purely because SOS bested her on national TV
 

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Oct 15, 2008
49,941
66,555
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
We haven't had someone as creative via trades as Silvagni, before.
Someone that won't comply because a gun has been put to his head.
He's generally got what he's wanted to get, at the prices he's been prepared to pay i.e. He's been a good List Manager.

Has he been a good recruiter though? Tope end yes, bottom end ...... not so much, so let the baker bake the bread SOS. Welcome Agresta.
 

FRUMPY

Norm Smith Medallist
Suspended
Aug 18, 2006
9,159
8,137
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
You're right that there was an element of taking on "dead wood" to sweeten the trade for GWS, thus getting a better deal on preferred players. There's other considerations too though.

The players that have done "a job" (including non-GWS budget picks):

Plowman and Marchbank still going.
Wright was a solid pickup.
Kerridge did a job (not super well, but was still a contributor).
Lamb played a decent role for a few years.
Phillips has offered some support when Kreuzer has been injured.
Mullett was serviceable with our backline decimated.
Lobbe as per Phillips.

Players that didn't work out at all:

Sumner, Gorringe, Smedts, Palmer, Pickett, O'Shea, Shaw

Jury still out on:

Kennedy, Lang, Fasolo

But you also need to consider that every one of those players taken for a ridiculously low price was one more player we could delist.

Pass on Sumner, Gorringe, Palmer, Pickett, O'Shea, Shaw and you've gotta hold some of the following for longer: Watson, Giles, Johnson, Russell, Warnock, Walsh, Fields, Wood, Dick, Foster, Smith, Everitt, Tutt, Rainbow, Whiley, etc. or plug those gaps with rookie picks. Maybe some mature age rookies would have been more effective? Possible. But we were clearly targeting mature age players with some experience at AFL level to balance the number of kids we were recruiting.
Probabaly more to do with all the GWS rejects we have taken. Could have done deals with other clubs but havnt and has resulted in some average returns. I still see Kerridge, Lamb, Phillips, Mullett as duds and got games because of the team we had/have, and even then all were dropped multiple times.
 

FRUMPY

Norm Smith Medallist
Suspended
Aug 18, 2006
9,159
8,137
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
We haven't had someone as creative via trades as Silvagni, before.
Someone that won't comply because a gun has been put to his head.
He's generally got what he's wanted to get, at the prices he's been prepared to pay i.e. He's been a good List Manager.

Has he been a good recruiter though? Tope end yes, bottom end ...... not so much, so let the baker bake the bread SOS. Welcome Agresta.
Has taken on too much deadwood in trades to get the deal done in my opinion, GWS deadwood
 

gezimnexhipi

Club Legend
Nov 20, 2013
2,559
2,521
AFL Club
Carlton
I can see sos letting agresta brodie do all the work publicly while sos does all the heavy stuff privately
 

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Oct 15, 2008
49,941
66,555
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Please spit it out:)
No. Nothing in it at all and it was in; The beats go on.
Just heard that we'd been talking to Beatson, but if SOS is now staying that shuts the door on that discussion.

I've been somewhat annoyed about our approach to later picks and the 'apparent' reluctance to target certain types.
If there were any issues with SOS before and if he's indeed prepared to stay on now, then that alone tells me that things have been sorted.....and if they have been sorted so quickly, I imagine this to be a very good thing. Back to business.
 
Top Bottom