Opinion Stephen Silvagni

Remove this Banner Ad

Wickzki said:
Re: Taranto -- no, there were so many future picks involved that it's kinda hard to analyse without looking at the whole picture (e.g. what happened with those future picks, what did the opposition receive in return, etc.). I'm sorry if I presented the information in a confusing manner.

Re: JSOS pick -- thanks for putting in the research on that. I thought Jack was a win at that selection but didn't have any idea how staggering those numbers were.

Re: List -- Yep. We had an horrific list. I'd argue we were in as bad a position as what the Fitzroy teams of the early 90's were in. We certainly didn't have the young guns (aside from Doc and Cripps) that the merged Lions eventually had from Fitzroy. That's all come with SOS.
Click to expand...


I really love it when posters take the time to put together something like you did - the more info the better, so thanks again!!

In case you're dong other years and it helps for your post, Here's a link I found around draft stats when I was having a surf - theres some interesting stuff there :)

https://www.draftguru.com.au/analysis/pick-value-comparison/all-time
 
BluesRule said:
Awesome effort! Love it.:thumbsu:

Yes we stuffed our rookie picks but there was good logic for having a craic at those 3. Had they worked out we would have had our small forward (Galluci) ruck depth (Korcheck) and a KPD who could run (before we converted Jones and Casboult, got Marchbank, etc.)

Interesting that SOS is being accused of ignoring small forwards but drafted Cuningham, Gallucci, Sumner, Wright, Kerridge (who can forget his 6 goal Cameo against Norfs for Adelaide) and Lamb in 2015.

What a great trade year by SOS. (although I hate losing Judd).
Click to expand...
Needs more detail.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
Get the impression from some posts that SOS had a crown of jewels to bargain with in 2015 and threw it all away.

Apart from being given 4 high draft picks, he had nothing more than dead dog bones in 2015 to trade with.

It’s meant we’ve taken players we perhaps didn’t want to take to get a deal done. It’s meant we’ve probably been forced into giving away some decent mature players to get decent draft picks.

So not every pick has been a success, but on the whole he’s done very well. Remember one post saying Charlie & Harry were no brainers - easy in hindsight, particularly as a number of clubs decided not to pick them.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Wickzki said:
Re: Taranto -- no, there were so many future picks involved that it's kinda hard to analyse without looking at the whole picture (e.g. what happened with those future picks, what did the opposition receive in return, etc.). I'm sorry if I presented the information in a confusing manner.

Re: JSOS pick -- thanks for putting in the research on that. I thought Jack was a win at that selection but didn't have any idea how staggering those numbers were.

Re: List -- Yep. We had an horrific list. I'd argue we were in as bad a position as what the Fitzroy teams of the early 90's were in. We certainly didn't have the young guns (aside from Doc and Cripps) that the merged Lions eventually had from Fitzroy. That's all come with SOS.
Click to expand...

We were nowhere near that bad. We won 7 games the next season without really bringing in any player who were better than a C+ grader. One less win than the team that went onto win the next flag
 
Some potential debate and disagreement here. Captain Hindsight as noted.

2016 – Twelve Months into the Job

2016 Retirements

  • Andrew Walker – Retired on August 2, effective after round 20 (202 games)
  • Michael Jamison – Retired on August 8, effective immediately (150 games)
  • Cameron Wood – Retired on August 30 (24 games for Carlton, 0 games in ’16)
Summary:

Tex and Jamo had given the club all of the service possible. Cam Wood gave us more than most expected he would.

2016 Delistings

  • Matthew Dick (6 games, 0 in ’16)
  • Jayden Foster (0 games)
  • Clem Smith (7 games, 0 in ’16)
  • Andrejs Everitt (52 games for Carlton, 131 career)
  • Andrew Gallucci (0 games)
  • Billy Gowers (0 games)
  • Jason Tutt (14 games for Carlton, 40 career)
  • Dillon Viojo-Rainbow (0 games)
  • Mark Whiley (9 games for Carlton, 21 career)

Summary:

A similar outcome in the delisting pool to 2015. Only one of these players was awarded a second opportunity, Billy Gowers. Gowers has said that he needed to go back to the lower levels to find himself as both a footballer and as a person.

Only one real player of note here other than Gowersand that’s Andrejs Everitt. The problem with Everitt was never a lack of talent. It was the professionalism and attitude. He just didn’t have it at a high enough standard. The other delistings were all no brainers. Personally, I was disappointed DVR didn’t have much of a career. However, he was always a project player and he was down the pecking order almost from the get go so far as younger players are concerned. A waste of a pick.

2016 AFL Free Agency


Carlton was inactive in free agency in 2016 neither losing anybody nor signing anybody into the club.

2016 AFL Trades

TRADE #1: Carlton traded Zach Tuohy and our 2017 2nd round pick to Geelong for Billie Smedts, their 2017 1st round pick and pick 63 in the 2016 AFL Draft

In isolation this is a poor trade for Carlton. Tuohy was at one time considered the premier small defender in the AFL as voted by the coaches. The club knew he was their only tradeable commodity and low balled him in contract offers as if to say “thanks but no thanks.”

We ended up using the pick gained in the Caleb Marchbank deal. This first round selection was the solution to getting that trade across the line.

Billie Smedts was a bust, playing 9 games in 2017 before being delisted. At one time he had been a big part of Geelong’s future. Injuries, lack of form and consistency robbed him of that future.

Verdict: As I said, when considered in isolation the trade was a bust. You need to factor it into the upcoming GWS trade for Marchbank to understand Silvagni’s intentions here.

TRADE #2: Carlton trade the 2017 Geelong 1st round pick plus picks 45 and 58 to GWS for Caleb Marchbank, Jarrod Pickett and GWS’s 2017 2nd round pick

Although Marchy has been inconsistent because of persistent injuries, he has shown enough to suggest that he’ll be a strong component of a premiership window team. Jarrod Pickett was a low-risk high-reward gamble that unfortunately didn’t pay off due to a combination of injuries and some could argue work ethic. The lad just didn’t want it enough.

GWS traded the Geelong pick acquired in this trade as part of the package (with GWS’s 2017 3rd round selection) that secured them Brett Deledio. Richmond ended up trading them what turned out to be pick 15 along with pick 52 in 2017 for picks 20 (Callum Coleman-Jones) and pick 25 (Noah Balta).

The later picks were used with other picks to match academy bids for Harry Perryman and Isaac Cumming. Neither pick held the highest points value in the trade but need to be factored in.

We ended up moving the GWS 2nd round pick to Hawthorn in a subsequent trade (see below).

Verdict: That GWS ended up using the 1st round pick for Deledio which backfired due to injury (though Deledio was an ironman at Richmond) and while Cumming and Perryman are nice pieces who haven’t seen many games (6 and 22 games respectively midway through their third season) the trade is a win to Carlton even with the failure of Pickett. Marchbank is the pick of the bunch here and has All-Australian potential.

TRADE #3: Carlton traded GWS 2017 2nd round pick to Hawthorn for picks 48, 66, and 70.

This was the trade that helped secure Jaeger O’Meara to the Hawks. The Hawks didn’t on trade the selection but it enabled them to trade their own 2017 2nd round pick to Gold Coast with pick 10 for O’Meara. For Carlton, the trade was all about adding immediate depth to the list at the expense of a higher pick the following season.

Hawthorn ended up trading the pick (34) the following year to Port Adelaide along with pick 61 and their 4th rounder in 2018 for Jarman Impey and pick 67. The Hawks drafted Dylan Moore with 67. Impey has been a main stay in the Hawks lineup while Moore has debuted and played 5 games this season.

With the picks we were able to draft Harrison Macreadie, Tom Williamson, and Pat Kerr.

Verdict: I’ve got to give this one to the Hawks. They used it in an impressive way to regenerate their list. Not only did it help them secure O’Meara but it got them a second best 22 player in Impey. However, I’m not too dissatisfied with this trade from a Carlton perspective. Williamson had a fantastic rookie season but has seen his career derailed due to a back injury, Macreadie has potential to come good but has also been delayed developmentally and Kerr has a lot of fans.


TRADE #4: Carlton trade pick 135 to GWS for Rhys Palmer

The first of our salary dump trades. Palmer knew his career was pretty much coming to a close when he landed at Carlton. SOS did his mates at GWS a favour. We didn’t give anything up.

Palmer played one game for Carlton in 2017. It was a low scoring win in round 3 against Essendon (57-42). He had 12 disposals, 6 clangers, gave away 3 free kicks and was never seen again.

Verdict: GWS probably won the trade as it helped alleviate their salary cap. However, we may have been so far under the salary cap ourselves that this trade may have brought us to the minimum level allowable.


2016 AFL Draft

We entered the 2016 AFL Draft with picks 5, 25, 48, 63, 66, 70, 81, 99 and 117 before bid matching, etc.

PICK #6: Sam Petrevski-Seton (after Carlton bid on Will Setterfield, selection matched by GWS)

Cal Twomey had us selecting SPS. His statement on SPS: “It was an injury-interrupted season for Petrevski-Seton but the West Australian midfielder remains one of the classiest, smoothest players in the pool. He can kick on both feet, make things happen, and see things unfolding that few others can. He can produce the unexpected moments on a regular basis. Petrevski-Seton played for Claremont's senior WAFL side as a 16-year-old and has matched it with senior players, and his tenacious tackling and defensive pressure is a hallmark of his game. Carlton is looking for a midfielder and the West Australian complements the youngsters already at the club.”
If it wasn’t SPS, Twomey had us going for Taranto (picked 2nd to GWS), Will Brodie (picked 9th to Gold Coast), Ben Ainsworth (picked 4th to Gold Coast), and Will Hayward (picked 21st to Sydney). Most Carlton fans were happy with drafting Petrevski-Seton though there was a fear that he wasn’t a big possession winner and that he had a tendency to skate through games.
Verdict: Petrevski-Seton was the right choice here. He’s had his fair share of criticism but to date you need to go down all the way to pick 40 to find a player who has played more games to date (Tom Stewart, Geelong). He’s second most played games to date in that draft. Others with 50 were drafted ahead of him (McGrath and McLuggage with Taranto getting his 50 in his next game). Other players closing in on 50 games drafted between SPS and our second pick in the draft are Oliver Florent (11), Jy Simpkin (12), Jarrod Berry (17), Sam Powell-Pepper (18), Will Hayward (21), Alex Witherden (23), and Brandan Parfitt (26). Clearly all of these players were considered to be a tier (or more) below SPS in the draft pool.

PICK #27 – Zac Fisher

Fisher is closing in on his 50-game milestone. Although his form has been a little sporadic this season there is no doubting the fact that he has earned those selections. The pick was a bolt out of the blue at the time. Twomey only mentions him once in his final draft preview. His prediction was that he would be a nice fit in the 30s.

If the 2015 AFL Draft was a no brainer draft given we were fortunate enough to draft the standout number one pick and almost had both McKay and Curnow fall into our laps, Cuningham was around that mark on many draft previews and Jack Silvagni was the obvious father-son draftee, then this is the first selection that comes under question.

The answer? There’s nobody in the draft other than Geelong’s Tom Stewart and Luke Ryan who are better AFL footballers in 2019 than Fisher. Fisher still has a lot of unfulfilled upside and as the team grows stronger throughout Fisher’s development he’ll become a wonderful ‘cream’ player and offer a significant point of difference moving forward.

Verdict: SOS makes his biggest AFL Draft call correctly. 2/2 so far this draft.

PICK #47 – Harrison Macreadie

Twomey on Macreadie: He had fallen down the draft order after an inconsistent season but the club (GWS) had relocated him to Sydney for the year and could grab him late.

Carlton put a bid on him at 47 and it went unmatched. Interestingly, Macreadie was so highly rated by some that it was not unusual to see him in the top 5 late the year before and into the early going of the season.

Macreadie played 8 games in 2017 (all but the round 3 game against Essendon being losses), missed all of 2018 mostly with injury, and has played just the 1 game in 2019 with a disappointing 2 possessions.

Verdict: He’s got potential but we just haven’t seen enough of him to make the call. Notable players to go between pick 47 and our next selection at 59 are Willie Rioli (28 games for West Coast) and Jack Graham (29 games for Richmond). Both are premiership players who can play small forward, a position of need. Even if Macreadie starts to hit his straps he’s blocked by Weitering, Marchbank, and Plowman in his natural position. Too early to call but 2020 will be a significant year (if he’s not a shock delisting a year early).

PICK #59 – Cam Polson

Polson has played 16 games since his drafting. Of the players drafted in the actual draft only Willo, Luke Ryan (mature age draftee), Harry Morrison and Jake Waterman (father/son) have played more games. However, I argue that this demonstrates how desperate we have been for a small forward rather than how solid a pick Cam was.

Polson is actually pretty typical of the players you get this late in the draft. He has some nice attributes that you see and think “Yeah, I can see why this guy was drafted” while you can also look at him and clearly see why he was available so late in the draft.

If anything, it may highlight the Macreadie selection. Most Carlton fans were hyped by the selection and rightly so. However, we clearly saw the need for a small forward with this selection and both Rioli and Graham were picked half a dozen selections before Polson.

Verdict: I like Cam, I really do. Anyone who tries as hard as he does is a winner in my book. Unfortunately, I don’t view him as having a long AFL career. There are too many deficiencies in his game – notably his inability to get the pill – that will cut his career short. Twomey didn’t rate Polson a mention in his final draft preview.

PICK #61 – Tom Williamson

The best pick this late in the draft that was available to us. Clearly other teams had red flags and we would have been aware of them but we considered Tom’s talent to be AFL draft worthy as a bottom age talent and we selected him.

He had a fantastic first year at the Blues. He had 15 games to his name by the end of his first season and was penned – not pencilled – into pretty much everyone’s best 22 for the start of the 2018 season. Unfortunately, he failed to add to his tally of games due to persistent injury and potentially illness (has the Crohn’s ever been confirmed?) and has played in 2 games in 2019.
Twomey was speculating on who may be available late in the draft for the Hawks two live picks (81/83) and pinpointed Williamson as a taller midfielder.

Verdict: Regardless of the injuries, Williamson is in the top few players available to us when given ability to play captain hindsight. If he gets his body right and his development hasn’t been completely ruined then he projects as being a best 22 player moving forward. Another successful pick by Silvagni.

PICK 65: Pat Kerr

Those who watch the VFL side continue to rave about Kerr. Some argue that he would be better served leaving Carlton for increased opportunity given our tall forward stocks are led by Charlie Curnow, Harry McKay, and Mitch McGovern. It would be unfortunate if that was the case given the family connection to the club.

Verdict: It’s a given that you provide young key position players 3 or 4 years before you really expect anything out of them. Therefore, it’s still too early to call whether this was a good selection or not. However, this was a pro-Carlton selection.

Rookie Elevation: Ciaran Byrne – Ah, Bunsen. He had his fans and I was one of them. A pity that he did his leg and then didn’t get a good run at it after that before breaking down at the end of last year and retiring pretty much simultaneously.

Draft Summary

The two most important selections of the draft were successful. I’m claiming the Tom Williamson selection to be a successful pick as well. The Macreadie, Polson, and Kerr picks are too early to call. The only questionable miss – in hindsight – was that we could have used the Macreadie selection on Willie Rioli or Jack Graham and satisfied a need of a small forward.

2017 AFL Rookie Draft

Pick #5: Kym LeBois

Has not played an AFL game yet. The following pick was Tyson Stengle then 3 players who haven’t or didn’t play an AFL game (Mitch McCarthy, Lachlan Filipovic, Peter Ladhams). Rowan Marshall was pick 10 and Cameron Zurhaar. This was another selection utilized on a small forward that takes us back to the Macreadie selection.

Pick 23: Alex Silvagni

This was an inspired selection. Alex only played 7 games for us (all in 2017) but was a heady veteran who contributed meaningfully in those games and on the training track. There were no real misses after this selection and our next pick.

Pick 39: Andrew Gallucci

Gallucci didn’t get a game before being delisted. James Cousins was the possible big miss after this selection.

CAPTAIN HINDSIGHT

Potential Misses in Free Agency

Michael Barlow – was at the end of his career but was a solid midfielder who could have helped us in the short term as he did for Gold Coast until he broke his leg (sadly against us).
Ricky Henderson – a delisted free agent who has gone onto end his career with Hawthorn. He could have been another solid veteran pickup.

Potential Moneyball Misses in Trade

Paul Ahern – sadly made of glass. North gave up pick 69 for him.
Nathan Hrovat – North and the Dogs pick swapped 3rd and 4th round picks for him. If I recall correctly we were into him but he ended up choosing the Roos. Played in all 22 games in 2017 but has gone backwards since (12 games in 2018 and 1 so far in 2019). Out of contract at the end of 2019.
Nathan Vardy – the injury prone former Cat was traded to West Coast for pick 72. Became a premiership player last year.
James Stewart – Another GWS player we were into. Ended up nominating Essendon ahead of Carlton and was traded for pick 77. Has been injured so far in 2019 but played 27 of 44 games the previous two years.
Captain Hindsight AFL Draft

Pick 5: SPS -- Correct call
Pick 25: Fisher -- Correct call
Pick 47: Macreadie -- Too early call. Willie Rioli or Jack Graham (picked 52/53)
Pick 59: Polson -- Potential delisting. Tom Williamson (we picked 2 picks later)
Pick 61: Williamson -- Had we picked Willo at 59 then Dylan Clarke was pick 63.
Pick 65: Pat Kerr -- Too early call. Luke Ryan (66)


Captain Hindsight Rookie Draft

Pick 5: Kym LeBois – probable delisting. Tyson Stengle, Rowan Marshall, Cam Zuurhaar.
Pick 23: Alex Silvagni – right call in the end.
Pick 39: Andrew Gallucci – James Cousins.
 
In 2015 and 2016, SOS clearly nailed the 5 highest draft selections that he had -- Weitering, McKay, Curnow, Petrevski-Seton, Zac Fisher. The most difficult of those was the Fisher pick. Nobody had him going that high but it's easily a very good selection in hindsight.

I'm on the fence in regards to Cuningham. I know he has a lot of fans. I was a fan of Josh Dunkley. The other guy I wanted, Riley Bonner, wasn't selected for over a dozen picks later so there was something not only our scouts but other scouts really didn't like about him. Limited upside? He's having a good year but it can be argued that he's a push with Cuningham.

Jack Silvagni was an easy father/son bid match.

Interesting the 2016 AFL Draft. Harrison Macreadie was considered a big steal by most given very early projections. Still a lot of upside. Injuries have gotten in the way. But perhaps the Giants knew something about him after he relocated to Sydney for them for the year before his drafting that we didn't know. Polson you can see why they drafted him but you can also see why he was available. Twomey had Jack Graham going 23 so him as a mid-fwd wasn't a big captain hindsight call. Rioli may well have been but he got a fair bit of press around his drafting. If only Willo can get back healthy again. Kerr the big pro-Carlton draftee for the heritage/legacy.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Wickzki said:
Here's a (not so little) something I've been working on. If there's enough interest, I'll do the four of these.

2015 – THE LIST STEPHEN SILVAGNI INHERITED

  • Andrew Walker
  • Menzel, Troy
  • Murphy, Marc
  • Gibbs, Bryce
  • Judd, Chris (retired)
  • Simpson, Kade
  • Buckley, Dylan
  • Kreuzer, Matthew
  • Cripps, Patrick
  • Watson, Matthew
  • Warnock, Robert
  • Boekhorst, Blaine
  • Jones, Liam
  • Docherty, Sam
  • Viojo-Rainbow, Dillon
  • Rowe, Sam
  • Jaksch, Kristian
  • Giles, Cameron
  • Holman, Nick
  • Tutt, Jason
  • Henderson, Lachlan
  • Whiley, Mark
  • Smith, Clem
  • Foster, Jayden
  • Armfield, Dennis
  • Bell, Tom
  • Graham, Nick
  • Everitt, Andrejs
  • Dick, Matthew
  • Thomas, Dale
  • Jamison, Michael
  • Casboult, Levi
  • Tuohy, Zac
  • Carrazzo, Andrew (retired)
  • Ellard, David (retired)

2015 Retirements

  • Chris Judd – retired on June 9, 2015 – mid-season due to career ending knee injury.
  • Andrew Carrazzo – retired end of season
  • David Ellard – retired end of season
Summary:

SOS had no choice on any of these players. Juddy had already retired mid-year and Carrots was clearly at the end. Ellard was a trier who was done as well.

2015 Delisted

Cameron Giles – delisted without playing a game.
Blaine Johnson – delisted after 7 AFL games (5 games in 2014; 2 in 2015).
Fraser Russell – delisted without playing a game
Matthew Watson – delisted after playing 23 AFL games
Tom Fields – delisted after 2 AFL games
Nick Holman – delisted after 9 AFL games
Brad Walsh – delisted after 3 AFL games
Robert Warnock – delisted after 67 AFL games for Carlton (88 total)

Summary:

Nick Holman (Gold Coast, 2018-2019; 33 of a possible 34 games) is the only player of the lot to get a second chance on an AFL list. There are only two ‘big’ names on this list in Watson (pick 18 in 2010) and Robert Warnock. Had the 2010 draft not been compromised because of the addition of the Gold Coast Suns we would have had the ninth selection in the draft. The difference is huge as Dion Prestia (pick 9) and Tom Lynch (pick 11) were two of the first three players we would have had the opportunity to draft.

We can criticize Silvagni for not seeing the talent in Holman that a number of fans did. However, it did take Holman two years back in the SANFL (Central District) for him to get back on the AFL radar.



2015 Free Agency

Outs: No Outs

Delisted Free Agents In

November 9 – Daniel Gorringe (formerly Gold Coast Suns)
November 26 – Matthew Wright (formerly Adelaide Crows)
Summary:

The pick after Dion Prestia and before Tom Lynch back in 2010? Yeah, that was Dan Gorringe. Back in Norwood in the 2010 season Gorringe looked like an absolute star in the making. It did not happen to him. Injuries (ankle, hamstring, Achilles, knee) throughout his first few seasons with the Suns devastated his development but there was always cries that he lacked the right mental aptitude to reach his potential. SOS’s team took a flier on him. We needed his position. He played 4 games for Carlton and again suffered from injuries (hip and Achilles). The low-risk high-reward signing didn’t pay off.
Matthew Wright was the little engine that could for Carlton. Played in 65 of a possible 66 games across three seasons with the club. Many believe that he could have played another season but he elected to retire and take his family back home. He was a success story for the Blues.

2015 Trades

Trade #1: Carlton traded Lachie Henderson to Geelong for 2016 1st round pick (GEE)

It’s rare to see a player quit on a club the way that Henderson did throughout the 2015 season. He had made his decision very early in the piece that he was going to Geelong. Silvagni was in a no-win situation yet was able to get Geelong to deal fairly at the trade table (Geelong have consistently been amicable traders across the league).

Henderson played 41 games in his first two seasons with Geelong (including finals) but injuries and loss of form have seen him play in just 7 games in 2018 and 1 so far this year. It’s quite likely that even at 100% Henderson is no longer in the Cats best 22. Pick 16 was used in another trade (see further along)
Winner: Carlton. Henderson wasn’t the answer to their premiership puzzle (yet!)



Trade #2: Carlton traded Tom Bell and pick #41 to Brisbane for picks #21 and #60

Bell had his career best season in our woeful 2015 campaign and as such was at his sell high price point. He wanted to return home to Queensland to his (IIRC) ill father and we were happy to oblige. Bell played just 21 games across 3 injury prone seasons (just 1 last season) before being delisted. Despite working with Fagan on finding another AFL home he wasn’t deemed good enough to be given that opportunity.

Pick 41 slid out to pick 47 where the Lions picked up Sam Skinner. Skinner has played just the one AFL game (back in 2017), is out of contract this year and with the development of their list is highly unlikely to get a renewed contract.

Carlton traded pick 21 in a subsequent trade (see further) that helped us secure a key part of our long-term spine. Wikipedia doesn’t have a record of what we did with pick 60 but we went into the draft with picks 59 and 60 so I believe we used it to match the bid Essendon placed on Jack Silvagni.
Winner: Carlton. The subsequent trade including pick 21 is one of the best pieces of work that Silvagni has done to date.

Trade #3: Carlton traded Troy Menzel to the Adelaide Crows for Sam Kerridge and pick #28

At the time this was the trade that infuriated a lot of people. For a period Menzel was considered as being the answer to our prayers. People spoke about his potential the way they talk about Cripps output today. However, we mostly understood that it just wasn’t working out for him at Carlton. There was criticism of his work ethic and his maturity. Still, it was a bitter pill to swallow when we traded him for what we deemed unders at the time.
However, Menzel didn’t win over the Crows coaching staff. His effort on the field and on the training track tanked even lower than it had at Carlton. Menzel played just the four games for Adelaide – 0 in his first year – and was delisted at the end of his two-year contract.
Criticize Sam Kerridge all you like, he always put in his maximum effort. Kerridge played 42 games for Carlton from 2016-2018, kicking 12 goals and even getting 2 Brownlow votes in 2016. I feel that he was delisted a year earlier than I would have liked but he wasn’t picked up and its likely his AFL career is over.

We used pick 28 in a subsequent trade (see next trade).
Winner: Carlton, easily. It goes to show that you can have high hopes for players and sometimes it just doesn’t work out. Whether the environment was wrong and they lacked opportunity or whether the player’s off field maturity just wasn’t good enough. Menzel failed on the latter. Kerridge was a valued clubman.



Trade #4: Carlton traded pick #28 (see trade #3), picks 77 and 95, and Geelong’s 2016 1st round pick for pick #8, Lachie Plowman, Jed Lamb, Andrew Phillips and Liam Sumner

Ah, the trade that got it all started with GWS. The famous “GWS 5 Trade” though it was really 4 and a pick.

The outcome of pick 28: In a convoluted trading and bid matching series of trades, GWS traded pick 28 with Treloar to Collingwood for pick 7, 65 and the Pies 2016 1st round pick. Pick 7 was traded to Melbourne with Tomas Bugg for picks 10, 43, 64. It eventually netted them Jacob Hopper. The Pies pick was eventually used in the Cam McCarthy trade the following year and in a second trade in which they gave up picks 2, 31, 51, and 60 for picks 3 and 16 they drafted Tim Taranto. In conclusion, they used more valuable pieces with what we gave up to get Hopper and Taranto (and other bid-matching things). Ultimately, 28 is a small piece here as were 77 and 95.

The outcome of the Geelong pick: The Tim Taranto selection rears its head again. As above, GWS traded the Geelong pick with pick 3 with pick 16 (the Geelong pick) for pick 2 (Taranto), 31, 51, and 60. Again, however, the Geelong pick was a secondary level piece to the main piece in the trade.
For Carlton, pick 8 became pick 10 due to the matching of Callum Mills and Jacob Hopper. We drafted Harry McKay with pick 10.
Plowman, despite constant criticism, is a mainstay in our defensive unit which is pretty solid at times despite the pressure it faces. Andrew Phillips is a decidedly below average ruckman but is decent as list depth in a position where we’ve had serious injury issues with our #1 in Kreuzer.
Sumner played 20 games for Carlton between 2016-2017 before being delisted. He hasn’t been given another opportunity. Jed Lamb played 44 games for Carlton between 2016-2018 before being delisted. Lamb was at times a crowd favourite and the job that he did on James Sicily back in 2017 in our drought breaking victory against Hawthorn a particularly favourite memory.

Winners: Carlton. GWS would not be disappointed with the outcome of the trade because it helped them secure other trades that netted them significant players in their best 22. However, this was a big win for SOS. Of the actual players and specific picks involved in the trade Harry McKay is head and shoulders better than any of them. He has the potential to be a permanent fixture in the All-Australian team in the years ahead. Plowman is an important player on our list despite the criticism.



Trade #5: Carlton trade picks 20, 21 and 2016 4th round pick (Carlton end up with it again in the future from Geelong via Fremantle via Bulldogs) to the Western Bulldogs for pick 11 and 2016 3rd round pick (Macreadie pick?)

Bulldogs draft: Josh Dunkley and Kieran Collins
Carlton draft: Charlie Curnow

Dunkley is a premiership player and has emerged as one of the better young utility players in the game. Collins got delisted and signed with the Northern Blues for 2019.

Curnow has the highest upside of any player in the trade.

Winner: Both teams even with the delisting of Collins. As good as Curnow has been for us, Dunkley has been brilliant for the Dogs. This has been a big win-win trade for both clubs to date. We both got exactly what we needed out of it. A pity that Collins didn’t pan out at the Dogs. However, this trade has the potential to be lop-sided in a few years to our advantage. If Charlie can hit his straps and realize his potential, he’ll be an instrumental player in our next premiership window.

2015 AFL DRAFT

Pick #1: Jacob Weitering

Callum Twomey predicted Jacob. “Weitering is the best player in the draft and will be a deserving No.1 pick. The key defender pieced together an excellent season from start to finish and placed himself at the top of the draft with his imposing play in the backline. Weitering is a brilliant overhead mark and has a long accurate kick. He has carried the tag as the likely No.1 choice without fuss throughout the year and will welcome the big expectations that will be placed on him in the AFL. The Blues can pick him knowing he will be a long-term part of their plans.”
If it wasn’t Jacob Weitering, it would have been Josh Schache. However, there was never any real debate.

Development: Weitering should never have been moved out of the backline. I believe that it stifled his development and it certainly rocked his confidence. He was never the answer to our forward line woes. However, he has found stability in his fourth AFL season and is still tracking ahead of expectations for a young key defender. He has played a vital role in the team this season and is showing signs of realizing his potential perennial All-Australian earmarking.

Verdict: Absolutely the right choice at pick 1.

Pick #10: Harry McKay

Callum Twomey got the top ten right though he thought we’d be the team who bid for Hopper instead of Gold Coast who did two picks earlier. In predicting Harry to us, he wrote: “The tall forward has real potential. He burst on to the scene at the start of the year with a four-goal bag at TAC Cup level and continued to show exciting signs. McKay is agile, versatile and likes to get on the lead and take some marks. He will also be able to pinch-hit in the ruck once he builds up his body, which will make him a difficult match-up. He took on this role at stages throughout Vic Country's championships campaign. The Blues have been linked as admirers for some time, and seem a good fit to bring in his talents in their developing forward line.”
If not him, Twomey claims that we would have considered Wayne Milera, Charlie Curnow (who we drafted). I was always enamored with drafting McKay – who I liked when he was projected in the mid-draft - and then Curnow. The Adelaide Crows were hot for Harry and consequently we drafted him here to ensure we drafted both Curnow and McKay.

Development: The back injury held back McKay’s development in his first season and when he was playing in the VFL he struggled to find form. Most VFL watchers would defend the criticism of the club not selecting him imploring us to be patient. Ultimately, he has proven to be an AFL grade player who didn’t really perform in the VFL. He’s tracking extremely well considering the early setbacks. So much so that I claim that he is ahead of the other KP talent in the draft that were drafted elsewhere (Francis, Weideman) ahead of him.

Verdict: Again, SOS nails this selection. McKay should emerge as an All-Australian caliber key forward as soon as next year.



Pick #12 – Charlie Curnow

Twomey messes up around here (though he gets the players and teams right; Kennedy to GWS; Hipwood to Brisbane; Milera to Adelaide; Charlie Curnow to Carlton).

In predicting Curnow to Carlton, he wrote: “The powerful forward is an interesting prospect due to his capabilities, his positioning and his limited game time across 2015. Curnow started and ended his season playing as a key forward who can take strong marks and hit the scoreboard. In the middle of the year he was about to progress into a midfield role, but he went down with a knee injury and missed the championships. He came back towards the end of the year to show his grunt, and he tested well at the combine with his endurance. Curnow's police incident days before the draft – where he was arrested for allegedly refusing a preliminary breath test – might see him tumble down the order a few spots but he could join brother Ed at the Blues.”
If not Charlie, Twomey had us looking at Milera and Ryan Burton.

Development: Charlie has had the cleanest development of the three talls that we drafted at the top end of the 2015 AFL Draft. However, he hasn’t been without his own injury setbacks. We’ve become accustomed to his brilliance and have probably been guilty of asking for more than a 22-year-old young KP should be contributing to a team. Has been given steady development in the forward line when he can easily play some midfield minutes. Then again, that’d be asking even more of him than we already do.
Verdict: Silvagni goes 3-for-3. He’s nailed the top end of the 2015 draft like few other list managers before him. Three KPP’s all of whom have superstar potential and all of whom are tracking ahead of schedule.

Pick #23 – David Cuningham

Twomey had Cunners going at pick 27 to West Coast. In this prediction he raves about his speed and his combine testing. He noted that his kick wasn’t brilliant but that he had enough to work with. Twomey had Carlton selecting Darcy Tucker (pick 27 to Fremantle) but thought we were also a chance for Jade Gresham (pick 18 to St. Kilda), Ryan Clarke (31 to North) and Riley Bonner (37 to Port Adelaide).
I was not a fan of this selection at all on draft night. It was the one selection SOS made on draft night that was questionable in my eyes. Everything that I had read and seen of him screamed out that he was more of an athlete than a footballer. However, admittedly, he had his fair share of fans. Without hindsight getting in the way I was a much bigger fan of us selecting Josh Dunkley or Riley Bonner. I also got caught up in the hype of Harley Balic and Rhys Mathieson.

Sad to see Balic not have the right attributes to succeed at AFL level and Mathieson’s demeanour and attitude on the field turns me off despite the fact that he’s probably earned his draft spot.

Development: Cunners development has been slower than I would have liked. He has managed 23 games so far including 7 games. Has shown spits and spurts of being a serious AFL player but at this stage appears to be much more of a cream player than a key part of the nucleus. His speed is breathtaking at times and he has shown a keen eye for goal.

Verdict: The jury is still out on Cunners. He has his moments. Dunkley is the pick of the bunch that I liked by some margin. However, as much as I still really like Bonner and think he’s a fabulous player an argument can be made both ways. Aside from Dunkley – and it was never a sure thing - there’s no glaring miscues in players who really became stars that were obvious in the end.

Pick #53 – Jack Silvagni (bid from Essendon matched)

The strike rate of getting a player from the fourth round on who becomes a mainstay in an AFL team is about 1 in 4 or 5. No, I haven’t done the research but go down the list in even the strongest of drafts and it’s hit and miss. When Essendon put in the bid for JSOS we were never going to pass it up. They did it as a **** stir knowing we’d match and it elicited the right response. Arguably the best part of our rivalry as a club aside from wins in a long time.
Jack’s a workhorse. He has done everything asked of him on and off the field. I honestly don’t know if he’s of long-term best 22 AFL quality. I have this feeling of dread in the back of my mind that when (if) Ben develops and it coincides with a Carlton grand final that there would be room for one Silvagni but not both with the brothers knowing it. If Jack was a better player, he’d be a genuine chance of captaining the club such is the way that he bleeds blue harder than almost every other player on the list.

When multiple journalists suggested that he should seek opportunity elsewhere because of the burden that he carries at Carlton it genuinely made me smile. That journalists deem him a high enough quality player to be able to play elsewhere is a huge compliment. Until recently he was copping “Well, if his Dad wasn’t SOS… Would he get a game even at Carlton?”

Love Jack’s attitude and determination. It rubs off on his teammates. I’m hoping that he makes it long-term as he desperately wants it.

Verdict: For a pick 53 he’s been a success.

2016 AFL Rookie Draft

PICK #1: Jesse Glass-McCassker

When we passed at the end of the national draft, I was crying that we didn’t draft Jesse. I know a few of the other Carlton fans that I was talking to at the time had a similar response as I did. As you can imagine, we were beyond ecstatic that he got to us through the rookie draft. Alas, it wasn’t to be. He didn’t play an AFL game and didn’t develop the way we hoped he would.

PICK #19: Andrew Gallucci

Did not play a game for Carlton. It was often joked that we drafted him in order to get Jordan. A second ultimately wasted rookie draft pick.

PICK #37: Matthew Korcheck (Cat-B; Basketballer; USA)

Our third strike in the 2015 AFL Rookie Draft. Did not play a game in the senior team.

Captain Hindsight: Who We Could Have Drafted
  • Tom Papley (pick 14 – Sydney)
  • James Parsons (Pick 27 – Geelong)
  • Dan Houston (pick 45 – Port Adelaide)

Captain Hindsight: Free Agency
  • Nobody. There were no free agents who went cheaply who did anything of particular note.
Captain Hindsight: Trades
  • Richmond traded pick 70 to GWS for Jacob Townsend and pick 120 -- could we have added something minor and gotten Townsend in as well?

SUMMARY

Out: Judd, Carrazzo, Ellard, Henderson, Bell, Menzel, Giles, Johnson, Russell, Watson, Fields, Holman, Walsh, Warnock (706 games for Carlton)

In: Gorringe, Wright, Kerridge, Plowman, Phillips, Lamb, Sumner, Weitering, McKay, Curnow, Cuningham, Silvagni, Glass-McCasker*, Gallucci*, Korcheck*

We lost two key cogs to a deep finals team to retirement (Judd, Carrazzo), a lot of players who failed to live up to their potential (Henderson, Menzel, Warnock, Watson), two depth players (Ellard and Bell) and a player who may not have developed to the point he did to earn his second opportunity (Holman). We let go 5 players that didn’t amount to anything.

In their place, we drafted in three potential annual All-Australian key position players (Weitering, McKay, Curnow), handy depth pieces for the short-term (Lamb, Wright, Kerridge, Phillips) and long-term (Silvagni, Cuningham, Plowman) and four players who didn’t really amount to anything (Sumner, Glass-McCasker, Gallucci, Korcheck).

You can’t do anything about the retirements but we come out ahead even when you include them. This was a highly successful, future premiership window building, trading and free agency period.
Click to expand...

Brilliant analysis but I reckon you missed the Yarran trade.
 
BluStreak said:
Hey Blue1980 just using your post to highlight a couple of my thoughts on that list of players.
Lamb (towards the end there I thought he could have been our small defender (I was not alone on that thought)
Click to expand...

Hence why I didn’t put him on the useless list. He, Kerridge and Wright all gave us something.
 
SkyhorseTamer said:
Hindsight recruiting should also include the fact that at the time our kpd was Sam Rowe... Casboult and Jones werent transformed. Passing on Weitering wouldve been bloody ludicrous just on where our kpd stocks were headed at the time. No one saw Jones becoming a good, let alone gun, defender nor Casboult a serviceable one. There are numerous gun mids every draft. How many gun key size defenders?

2013: A. Pearce, barrass, aliir
2014: Moore, lever (not key), D. Howard?, andrews
2015: Weitering and a couple of decent mid sizes in doedee and Burton.
2016: Tom Stewart (mature age)
2017: Naughton, S Taylor (maybe...),

Gun key position sized defenders are simply hard to find in the draft. Weitering isn't questionable, saying we maybe should've grabbed Oliver is saying we should've taken him 1 instead of Jacob. Bonkers.
Click to expand...

Never said we should have taken Oliver before Weitering here, been a fan of weiters from day one, he’s fast becoming one of the best defenders in the comp
 
agro said:
So your saying that SOS didn’t know any of his injury history prior to drafting him at GWS, and didn’t know anything about his injury history at GWS at all, and didn’t know anything at all about his injury prone playing history at all.

Is that what you are seriously saying? :think:
Click to expand...
He broke his wrist last year. How the hell has that got to do with anything with his previous injury history.

And maybe he didn't like being in Sydney and wanted to get to a Melbourne club like Yarran did.
 
Who didn’t support SOS? He’s done better than many over the last two decades in getting talent to the club.

Other than the days of securing Lappin, Rice and Hickmott who all became favourite players, it’s been a bit average since (other than the ease of selecting a top 3 pick)
 
dlb99 said:
Haters have gone quiet since the Teague train arrived.

I support SOS as the list manager, now more than ever.

When we hoist the cup (soon), SOS will have been the architect.
Click to expand...
The media Muppets have definitely gone quiet.
Gerald and Co. can EAD.

Us fans are definitely bias towards our own team but we've watched this build closer than any of those Muppets.
But blind Freddy could see we had the nucleus of a quality list .

Sos has set it up so that probably 15 of the starting 22 come 2023 will be at the peak age 26-28yrs old and that's gonna be a deadly combo to stop.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Davey33
Jack Silvagni as future Carlton captain? Discuss.
2
Replies
25
Views
1K
thylacine60
thylacine60

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top