Nostradamus Lives Stephen SOS Silvagni sacked from Carlton. Tom Browne upgraded to CCC- Junk Bond rating

chunkylover53

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Carlton delists this year:

Tom Bugg (retired), Alex Fasolo (retired), Jarrod Pickett (retired), Dale Thomas (retired), Jarrod Garlett (delisted), Matthew Lobbe (delisted), Patrick Kerr (delisted), Angus Schumacher (delisted), Kym Lebois (delisted), Andrew Phillips (Essendon), Josh Deluca (delisted)

All bar Dale Thomas picked up by SOS. 75 quality games from the rest.
What’s the normal amount of delisting a club has per year? Phillips was a success he played some great games for us and cost next to nothing.
 

Rich01

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What’s the normal amount of delisting a club has per year? Phillips was a success he played some great games for us and cost next to nothing.
You tell me. Is 7.5 games per recruit before delisting average?

You should also define great games. Of Phillips 27 games for the Blues, his highest possession count was 15 and the most goals he kicked was 1 (not in the same game however). In fact he averaged less than 7 possessions a game for you guys. Which were the ‘great’ games he played?
 
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chunkylover53

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You tell me. Is 7.5 games per recruit before delisting average?

You should also define great games. Of Phillips 27 games for the Blues, his highest possession count was 15 and the most goals he kicked was 1 (not in the same game however). In fact he averaged less than 7 possessions a game for you guys. Which were the ‘great’ games he played?
He’s a giant lanky uncoordinated ruckman, it’s not his jobs to get possessions. He was a decent second string tap ruckman who we gave up nothing for and have gained a draft pick via trading him to Essendon. His game vs Adelaide this year was great, 30-odd hitouts and a goal. He’s had similar along the way.

You realise that not every single player is bought on to be a star right? Of the players you listed, SOS literally gave up next to nothing for all of them. Jarrod Garlett was a pick 72 ffs. A pick 72 gets delisted and it means something to you... seriously? Find me a player at that pick 70 mark or someone we could’ve traded for that would’ve been better.

And I’ll ask again - what’s the average amount of delistings for a club per year? You’re the one focusing on it.
 

Buzzasto DaSilva

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:thumbsu:

So how long before this SOS rumour becomes fact?
It's definitely happened. Rohan Connolly confirmed it on Tuesday. The Blues are just waiting for a scandal to pop up and they will quietly make a press release and hope that it gets swept up and forgotten.

To be honest, this is the best possible move Carlton can make. It'll take a little while to recover from the Silvagni era but better to start now than go through another three years of his horrific reign.
 

Rich01

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He’s a giant lanky uncoordinated ruckman, it’s not his jobs to get possessions. He was a decent second string tap ruckman who we gave up nothing for and have gained a draft pick via trading him to Essendon. His game vs Adelaide this year was great, 30-odd hitouts and a goal. He’s had similar along the way.

You realise that not every single player is bought on to be a star right? Of the players you listed, SOS literally gave up next to nothing for all of them. Jarrod Garlett was a pick 72 ffs. A pick 72 gets delisted and it means something to you... seriously? Find me a player at that pick 70 mark or someone we could’ve traded for that would’ve been better.

And I’ll ask again - what’s the average amount of delistings for a club per year? You’re the one focusing on it.
I’m not focusing on the amount of delistings, you are.

My comment was in relation to the poor quality of the players SOS delisted this year (that he picked up). Don’t get distracted by where they were picked up to justify their poor output at Carlton. They were rubbish picks by SOS, plain and simple.

Your example of a ‘great’ game is laughable. Phillips barely kept up with O’Brien in that game. Might have been above average for him in his performance, but far from a great game by anyone’s standards. If that’s the best he’s got from being on the list for 4 years, and people think that’s not acceptable but great, there’s your problem right there.
 

RobR

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It's definitely happened. Rohan Connolly confirmed it on Tuesday. The Blues are just waiting for a scandal to pop up and they will quietly make a press release and hope that it gets swept up and forgotten.

To be honest, this is the best possible move Carlton can make. It'll take a little while to recover from the Silvagni era but better to start now than go through another three years of his horrific reign.
I've asked you this before and you failed to reply. Name the players who will be a bust that Silvagni has drafted.
 

RobR

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I've asked you this before and you failed to reply. Name the players who will be a bust that Silvagni has drafted.
All this is only your opinion, doesn't mean it's right, it also won't hurt to listen to other opinions which maybe right.
 

Buzzasto DaSilva

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I've asked you this before and you failed to reply. Name the players who will be a bust that Silvagni has drafted.
I have on many occasions.

Walsh was the right call. Petrevski-Seton was a good selection. Curnow was a good selection. The rest have been mistakes. Setterfield could be decent but didn't have a great 2019, and has regressed since his draft year.

If you would like a more detailed analysis, happy to give one later today when I have more time :thumbsu:
 

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RobR

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What percentage of players that SOS has selected, be it via trading or the draft, are no longer at the club?

Therein lies your answer...
Whoever we've delisted has nothing to do with how we are going to perform over the next ten years.
 

RobR

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Who you trade and draft does have an influence, so trading and delisting does have have something to do with how you perform.
I said who we've delisted has absolutely nothing to do with how we are going to perform in the next ten years.
 

Fadge

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I said who we've delisted has absolutely nothing to do with how we are going to perform in the next ten years.
Very, very simplistic way of looking at it.

When you trade and draft, a reasonable expectation is they will be on your list for a number of years. Every miss means you're one player further away from having a premiership contending team.

With the number of misses Carlton have had, they've still got a majority of players on their list who are more in the 'hopeful' category than 'proven'. Some of those will make it, whilst others won't, meaning you still have a heap of gaps to fix before you're anywhere near contending with the big boys.
 

regpies

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Bugger, was hoping he would stay, one of footy’s great frauds.

Have a look at his strike rate for top 10 picks at GWS, it’s appalling, take out their first draft and since then he had more misses than hits.

2014 they had 3 picks inside the first 7. All of them duds. If any Melbourne club drafted so badly they would be getting blasted.

Yet somehow he was seen as having done a good job at GWS.

O’Rourke, Pickett, Ahern, Tyson, Plowman, Jaksch and Marchbank. All top 12 picks and all failures. Imagine having so many high draft picks it doesn’t matter you wasted 7 of them.
 

sosos

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I have on many occasions.

Walsh was the right call. Petrevski-Seton was a good selection. Curnow was a good selection. The rest have been mistakes. Setterfield could be decent but didn't have a great 2019, and has regressed since his draft year.

If you would like a more detailed analysis, happy to give one later today when I have more time :thumbsu:
With little in hand, Sos has utterly transformed the Carlton list, both talent wise and age demographic wise over a 5 year period. The first list manager we've had who had the balls to make some big calls. And most supporters love what he's done. Not that he's perfect, but overall he's been really good for the club.

I rarely respond to this type of thread where people are so ignorant, but I kind of had to laugh at this highlighted comment regarding Will Setterfield. He:
  1. Only played the two games at GWS before being traded to Carlton,
  2. Missed almost his whole first year at the club (2017) with injury, playing two games,
  3. Had a ruptured anterior cruciate ligament in 2018, missing the whole season,
  4. Then in 2019 got on the park to play almost the whole year. Starred in a few games too, and all Carlton supporters would love to see what he can do with a full pre-season.
So, can you please tell me how he can possibly have "regressed since his draft year"? It's so inaccurate, all I can imagine is you've mixed him up with another player?
 

Buzzasto DaSilva

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With little in hand, Sos has utterly transformed the Carlton list, both talent wise and age demographic wise over a 5 year period. The first list manager we've had who had the balls to make some big calls. And most supporters love what he's done. Not that he's perfect, but overall he's been really good for the club.

I rarely respond to this type of thread where people are so ignorant, but I kind of had to laugh at this highlighted comment regarding Will Setterfield. He:
  1. Only played the two games at GWS before being traded to Carlton,
  2. Missed almost his whole first year at the club (2017) with injury, playing two games,
  3. Had a ruptured anterior cruciate ligament in 2018, missing the whole season,
  4. Then in 2019 got on the park to play almost the whole year. Starred in a few games too, and all Carlton supporters would love to see what he can do with a full pre-season.
So, can you please tell me how he can possibly have "regressed since his draft year"? It's so inaccurate, all I can imagine is you've mixed him up with another player?
Certainly haven't confused him for somebody else. I've followed Will for many years as an academy prospect. Setterfield was the best prospect we've ever had come into our club. He was better than Josh Kelly and Lachie Whitfield at the same age and I've said this on many occasions previously. While Carlton have done a fabulous job of consistently getting solid GWS players to their club (Marchbank, Kennedy, Plowman, Pickett, Setterfield), I don't think the Blues were a great decision for Setterfield from a development perspective.

His performances in 2019, while an obvious plus for Carlton, were nowhere near what was expected of him when he was drafted. I genuinely believe he has regressed. Make sense?
 

chunkylover53

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Certainly haven't confused him for somebody else. I've followed Will for many years as an academy prospect. Setterfield was the best prospect we've ever had come into our club. He was better than Josh Kelly and Lachie Whitfield at the same age and I've said this on many occasions previously. While Carlton have done a fabulous job of consistently getting solid GWS players to their club (Marchbank, Kennedy, Plowman, Pickett, Setterfield), I don't think the Blues were a great decision for Setterfield from a development perspective.

His performances in 2019, while an obvious plus for Carlton, were nowhere near what was expected of him when he was drafted. I genuinely believe he has regressed. Make sense?
They weren't as good as expected when he was drafted because he has barely played for 2 years and coming off some pretty horrific injuries at the age of 21.

Have you ever done an ACL and played the following year? It's not easy - even at amateur level when I've done it. Can imagine it'd be a fair bit harder with AFL bodies smashing you.
 
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chunkylover53

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I’m not focusing on the amount of delistings, you are.

My comment was in relation to the poor quality of the players SOS delisted this year (that he picked up). Don’t get distracted by where they were picked up to justify their poor output at Carlton. They were rubbish picks by SOS, plain and simple.

Your example of a ‘great’ game is laughable. Phillips barely kept up with O’Brien in that game. Might have been above average for him in his performance, but far from a great game by anyone’s standards. If that’s the best he’s got from being on the list for 4 years, and people think that’s not acceptable but great, there’s your problem right there.
Oh geez, busted looking at the AFL Fantasy points on the AFL app... Again. Phillips gave our mids first use all day leading to our 52 clearances. Doesn't matter, for what we gave up for Phillips he was more than serviceable as a second string ruckman.. You gotta have backup somehow. Or are you suggesting we should give up first rounders for stars every year?

Most picks around the 70 mark are rubbish, what is so hard to understand about that? You behave like we were thinking said players would be part of our next flag tilt. Pickett is the only one we had real high hopes for.

Fasolo (free)
Bugg (free)
Deluca (free)
Garlett (pick 72)
Kerr (Rookie)
LeBois (Rookie)
Lobbe (pick 95)
Phillips (steak knives in bigger deal)
Pickett (steak knives in bigger deal)
Schumacher (rookie)

When a club starts burning first round picks regularly, and you have players walking out every year, then its time to start worrying. At the moment we are doing neither of those and as I said I reckon our top 10 is starting to take shape nicely which is most important.
 

Rich01

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Oh geez, busted looking at the AFL Fantasy points on the AFL app... Again. Phillips gave our mids first use all day leading to our 52 clearances. Doesn't matter, for what we gave up for Phillips he was more than serviceable as a second string ruckman..
LOL. The bar you set for a ‘great’ game is extremely low.

There should be an expectation that that SOS recruited group would have contributed more than 7.5 games on average per player before leaving the club. But then again, you think that’s perfectly acceptable. Because they were ‘free’, right?
 

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