Universal Love Steve Silvagni - List Manager Extraordinaire

Discussion in 'Carlton' started by My name geoff, Oct 21, 2015.

Put it out there
  1. F the Rest

    F the Rest Club Legend

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    Draft strategy itself wasn't that different to 2015... going for talls, outside runners and slightly older fringe players to fill the five year black hole of Hughes/Rogers drafting.

    The difference was execution.
     

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  2. 1981

    1981 Norm Smith Medallist

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    Jesus Christ, get up on the wrong side of the bed did we??
    Seriously, take a chill pill.

    I was merely asking if you had the exact detail of the trades (bec unlike you, I couldn't be phukced to look them up, I have better things to do with my time).

    In most normal years, such as 2014 and not 2015, I tend to assume most picks after the first round are unlikely to come good, so really it is about making sure your first pick works out, and also any trades you might have made. In that respect I think Boek looks OK, possibly good (only time will tell, which you seem to not to understand), and Jaksch suited a need for young KPP taken with an early pick.

    As a sum I think 2014/15 we have done very well, as good as we could ask to get lots of high pick KPPs, and then some.

    Gee, I hope the rest of you day turns out a little more chilled than the last half hour or so.
     
  3. 1981

    1981 Norm Smith Medallist

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    It's only 1 year since, but it is a disgrace LOL
    OH MY ...............
     
  4. F the Rest

    F the Rest Club Legend

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    2014 trade/draft comes down to how KJ amd Whiley turn out... I'm a KJ doubter but would love to be proven wrong. Whiley's shown some good signs but his composure may limit him from being an good AFL player.
     
  5. mediumsizered

    mediumsizered Premium Platinum

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    It's more about not rehashing the last 20 years. It would seem that 2015 has finally seen us acknowledge what has been obvious to many AFL clubs since the '90s & this is clearly the result of SOS' return to the club. For most of the last 20 years, we have only been 'half pregnant' when it has come to building a successful list. A little bit of draft activity, folllowed by some messiah activity. So many false dawns.
     
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  6. thylacine60

    thylacine60 TheBrownDog

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    False dawns? I've been getting out of bed agog with anticipation only to slink back under the covers despairing since 2004.
     
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  7. Stig O'Hara

    Stig O'Hara Hall of Famer

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    Don't be watching news my friend, All that Breaking News...............
    fast speak/slow speak.........and...those.....important......things....whichreallydon'tmake........any...sense.

    Anyhoo, a cat plays a pianey after the Middleton Princess claps her hands.........
     
  8. thylacine60

    thylacine60 TheBrownDog

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    You drank the bong water again didn't you?
     
  9. JustaBattler

    JustaBattler Brownlow Medallist

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    The false dawn reputation has been hard earned by the Club - still, the messiah coach myth has been busted as has the one player will make all the difference myth. I reckon the Club is moving fast down the right path - I don't think anyone in the Club is sitting back relaxed and happy right now- more a sense of purpose kind of vibe coming out of Princes Park. Bolton might be talking long term green shoots etc - but he will want to see the players exceed expectations - irrespective of how low they might be right now.

    Shape up to new benchmarks or ship out - will be insisted on - no need to look any further than Menzel trade- or the (apparent) ceiling put on Kreuzer's expectations in terms of money. The party is well and truly over. Early days for sure- but I haven't seen a Carlton side so well organised in defense in many many years.
     
  10. ferrisb

    ferrisb Norm Smith Medallist

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    It's about time you unjammed the front door lock...
     
  11. 1981

    1981 Norm Smith Medallist

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    Smith is another who could turn out a good selection at 60 or whatever it was.
     
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  12. LordLucifer

    LordLucifer Brownlow Medallist

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    No-one drinks skunk water ...... surely ??
     
  13. thylacine60

    thylacine60 TheBrownDog

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    SA is the driest state in the driest country on earth.
     
  14. Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods

    Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods Norm Smith Medallist

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    You of all people should know that man is not a camel.
     
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  15. KnaveyBlue

    KnaveyBlue Premiership Player

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    I'm happy to jump the gun and say the whole period was pretty damn poor.

    Dick, KJ, Whiley, Jones and Tutt aren't up to it. Their only benefit will be filling holes and shielding the younger guys. (except for KJ, who still needs shielding himself)

    BB and Clem have at least shown promise, while the jury is still well and truly out on Rainbow.
     
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  16. rog1995

    rog1995 Club Legend

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    Watching Collins last night geez he was impressive. Really can't help but think with him and Weitering our defense could of been set for the next dozen years. Perhaps this was the Draft we should of gone with all talls. If we got four out of six 200 game players we would of done well. Very hard to get a key position player that is ready to play immediately and Collins and Weitering having played together could of been the cornerstone of our rebuild.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2016
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  17. thylacine60

    thylacine60 TheBrownDog

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    Looking forward to the introduction of the 19th Team next season - The Whatif Dreamers.
     
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  18. mediumsizered

    mediumsizered Premium Platinum

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    They will be overshadowed by the AFL's 20th team - The Hindsight Heroes.
     
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  19. ferrisb

    ferrisb Norm Smith Medallist

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    Their recruiting department could be staffed by posters from this (and other) board.

    Plenty of experience!
     
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  20. The Old Dark Navy's

    The Old Dark Navy's Up, Up Cronulla

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    They were 2 separate processes. You can't put the two trades together to determine if we got fair value for Bell. Even if we traded 20 and 21 for magic beans, we still got 21 for Bell.
     
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  21. rog1995

    rog1995 Club Legend

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    Wouldn't be a bad place to start with our tragic trading history.
     
  22. gbatman

    gbatman Brownlow Medallist

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    The bell trade was fair. I don't particularly rate Bell that highly, successful sides rarely carry blokes who can't kick, especially in this position and didn't have the greatest hands.

    Pick 21 and 60 for Bell. This became pick 11 and a 2016 third round pick. This pick became Charlie Curnow who is highly Rated. Pick 60 was used on Silvagni.

    So a 2016 third rounder, Curnow and a late pick to use on Silvagni. Unless these draftees fail, We did well, at this stage it looke like we did well.
     
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  23. Farktherest

    Farktherest Norm Smith Medallist

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    At this stage it looks to be very good trading actually.

    21 for Bell was good value...trading 41 or whatever for 60 didn't impact us at all because it was always being used for Silvagni.

    Then 2 x early 20 picks for pick 11 and and a 2016 third rounder...is fair on face value, but gave us access to more elite talent in Curnow and gives us more trading power next year, possibly again packaging that pick with another one or two for a first rounder.
     
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  24. Ti22

    Ti22 All Australian

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    If just 3 of the draftees work out for us then I will say things are looking great.

    Sent from India
     
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  25. Windhover

    Windhover Premiership Player

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    Had I a chill pill I would definitely offer it to you. It seems more you than me doin the cuss'n an stuff.:)

    And I was merely making the point that because you couldn't be phukced to look them up - no doubt with more pressing time concerns - one could infer your opinion of the 2014 trades was based on ignorance (which you confirm).

    Jaksch and BB were taken as more mature-aged players than, say Wright who went at pick 7. The "advantage" of taking Jaksch and BB was that they would (hopefully) come good early and contribute to our success in 2015. MM was not for waiting, particularly with a new contract to sign.
    The disadvantage of taking Jaksch was that after 2 years in the system he had done next to nothing at the level. Sure, he might have come good but usually after 2 years even talls should start to be showing something before you trade a first round pick (which even you concede is an important drafting tool - indeed you over-rate it IMO). So, if Jaksch "suited a need for young KPP taken with an early pick" then Wright did in spades as a 201 cm tall forward meant to be good below the knees, a good mark and straight kick.

    Some nuff-nuff poster has commented they do not understand the logic that admits even with good strategy one can get bad results. The poster obviously does not understand the role that luck plays. Good strategy only improves odds, it does not guarantee results. So, although Wright has done all that could reasonably be expected of a first year tall, he may turn out to be a bigger dud than Jaksch is looking to be.

    For 2014 instead of going for a long-term high pick KPP like Wright (the right strategy) we went for short term fix hoping one or other of the list of duds we recruited might come good. So when you post . . .

    . . . we actually did the exact opposite in 2014 i.e. traded high pick (7) for wing and prayer footballers we (MM) hoped would come good early.

    Put simply, there is not one of the 2014 crop that looks like being an important part of a Carlton side in say 2019. With Wright, plus this year's crop of Weitering, McKay and C. Curnow I reckon 2019 would be looking very promising. 2014 was a disastrous trade/draft period, it looked like bad strategy at the time and the results are entirely predictable.