Steve Smith as Captain

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Voice of the G

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Agree - just pick the next best candidate, whoever that may be, but it can’t be Smith in my view
Our best captain is not even in the test side and they will not give him the opportunity to play test cricket as they say he is to important for T20 and 1 day cricket.Glenn Maxwell is the guy and it is to late,wonderful talented cricketer and if given more opportunity to play the longer version of the game cricket would have been a lot better off.
 

eth-dog

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Our best captain is not even in the test side and they will not give him the opportunity to play test cricket as they say he is to important for T20 and 1 day cricket.Glenn Maxwell is the guy and it is to late,wonderful talented cricketer and if given more opportunity to play the longer version of the game cricket would have been a lot better off.
Would be 3rd in line at his state but the best captain in Australia? Get a grip
 

corbies

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Smith got a 1 match banned from the ICC. That is how seriously the world governing body of the sport takes ball tampering. Smith was very unluckly.
Still waiting for Hashim Amla's 5-10 year ban for captaining the side when Vernon Philander admitted ball tampering. A match in which Dale Steyn got prodigious amounts of reverse swing to win his side the match.
 

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western royboy

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Our best captain is not even in the test side and they will not give him the opportunity to play test cricket as they say he is to important for T20 and 1 day cricket.Glenn Maxwell is the guy and it is to late,wonderful talented cricketer and if given more opportunity to play the longer version of the game cricket would have been a lot better off.
Pass
 

Santana

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Still waiting for Hashim Amla's 5-10 year ban for captaining the side when Vernon Philander admitted ball tampering. A match in which Dale Steyn got prodigious amounts of reverse swing to win his side the match.
Luckily for them, a lot of people only cared about ball tampering on that faithful afternoon day on the 24th of March, 2018 at Newlands. I wonder why :think:

Funny how Martin Crowe's reputation isn't tainted supposably like Smith's is to some. Lucky him.
 

The Cryptkeeper

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Still waiting for Hashim Amla's 5-10 year ban for captaining the side when Vernon Philander admitted ball tampering. A match in which Dale Steyn got prodigious amounts of reverse swing to win his side the match.
He should have got done too.

People trying to trivialise this have literally no idea how important the condition of the ball is in cricket.

Ball tampering is an absolute scourge. It's as bad as somebody sneaking into the ground at night before a game when the opposition is due to bat, getting under the covers and pouring a jug of water into the pitch on a good length. This something my team suspected our opponents of doing a few years ago.
 

Santana

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He should have got done too.

People trying to trivialise this have literally no idea how important the condition of the ball is in cricket.

Ball tampering is an absolute scourge. It's as bad as somebody sneaking into the ground at night before a game when the opposition is due to bat, getting under the covers and pouring a jug of water into the pitch on a good length. This something my team suspected our opponents of doing a few years ago.
If you want there to be a more serious global crackdown on ball tempering, then fine, but you can't just clutch your pearls after one incident and suddenly demand unprecedented repercussions for those involved.
 

The Cryptkeeper

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If you want there to be a more serious global crackdown on ball tempering, then fine, but you can't just clutch your pearls after one incident and suddenly demand unprecedented repercussions for those involved.
All I am saying is that he is lucky to have been given a second chance and he should never be allowed to captain his country again given it happened with his permission and it is one of the most, if not the most serious case of ball tampering on record.

Pick him to play. Fine. Most of us can live with that. Captain? No f'ing way.

My position is hardly controversial and I would say shared by most observers.

(And I am not "clutching my pearls" you git. I advocate all ball tamperers face sanctions)
 

Santana

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All I am saying is that he is lucky to have been given a second chance and he should never be allowed to captain his country again given it happened with his permission and it is one of the most, if not the most serious case of ball tampering on record.

Pick him to play. Fine. Most of us can live with that. Captain? No f'ing way.

My position is hardly controversial and I would say shared by most observers.

(And I am not "clutching my pearls" you git. I advocate all ball tamperers face sanctions)
Considering there has never been any serious consequences or any real serious disapproval for ball tempering beforehand, Smith is LITERALLY NOT LUCKY TO BE IN THE TEAM for an action every team has done and that was ignored by umpires for decades. You also literally said he was lucky to be in the team, not just as captain, a page ago but okay.

What we saw from some on social media and the media on that day should be the new definition of pearl clutching. The team f’ed up, but they didn't deserve to be unprecedentedly punished for the wankfest that followed and still goes on today.
 

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Santana

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If you ask me the ones that got off Scott free from the ball tampering thing were the bowlers. There's no way that was going on not only with their express consent but I'd also assume direction as to how to do it.
Probably, but Bancroft probably didn't get a chance to do that much with the ball since he got caught pretty early. I don't believe the umpires even changed the ball after going over it did they?

I am sure they were doing stuff with the ball for a while, but that was probably the first time some/all of them decided to use sandpaper.
 

Voice of the G

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1. He's chosen to do that. He could have said no, but he didn't.
2. Even if that were the case, he's still behind Handscomb and Finch as captains in the Victorian set up.
Handscomb is captain because his test days and T20 and 1 day cricket for Australia are just about over.What I have seen of captaincy by Maxi in the big bash he makes a good captain.As for test cricket he has just about given up now and near the end of his career so mise well get as much money out of it as can.Last ashes series where the 2 Australian squads played a 4 day game against each other before the series and Maxwell did not even get in the 25 player squad.Played a few county games before and did well but his non selection in that game was judged on a few rash shots in a 1 day series against England or was it T20 and he come in late in the innings any way and had to get quick runs.Brilliant fieldsmanand handy spin bowler as well and suitable for all forms of cricket.
 

the_interloper

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Probably, but Bancroft probably didn't get a chance to do that much with the ball since he got caught pretty early. I don't believe the umpires even changed the ball after going over it did they?

I am sure they were doing stuff with the ball for a while, but that was probably the first time some/all of them decided to use sandpaper.
I can't remember to be honest, but using sandpaper is one of the silliest ideas.

Back in the day, er, a mate told me you buy whites with zippers on them, that way you can "shine" the ball on your daks and get some friction happening. Of course you can get busted if someone notices you have the shiny side facing out!
 

eth-dog

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Handscomb is captain because his test days and T20 and 1 day cricket for Australia are just about over.What I have seen of captaincy by Maxi in the big bash he makes a good captain.As for test cricket he has just about given up now and near the end of his career so mise well get as much money out of it as can.Last ashes series where the 2 Australian squads played a 4 day game against each other before the series and Maxwell did not even get in the 25 player squad.Played a few county games before and did well but his non selection in that game was judged on a few rash shots in a 1 day series against England or was it T20 and he come in late in the innings any way and had to get quick runs.Brilliant fieldsmanand handy spin bowler as well and suitable for all forms of cricket.
Handscomb was made captain before he even made his international debut. He's still captain because he's a good one. Sit down, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
 

Santana

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I can't remember to be honest, but using sandpaper is one of the silliest ideas.

Back in the day, er, a mate told me you buy whites with zippers on them, that way you can "shine" the ball on your daks and get some friction happening. Of course you can get busted if someone notices you have the shiny side facing out!
Yes it was moronic not only for some to come up with the idea but then to go through with it. Even if Smith wasn't part of coming up with the idea, he was also moronic not to stop it.
 

big_e

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Ball tampering isn't considered that big a deal because it is a temporary offence - if the umpire notices a difference, they can just change the ball.

Smith has served his CA suspension and is entitled to be picked again as captain, although I don't see any reason why you wouldn't have Cummins? Maybe as test captain only, so he can have a break in white-ball. Not many other legitimate candidates, which says a lot about the state of Australian cricket right now.
 

The Cryptkeeper

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Considering there has never been any serious consequences or any real serious disapproval for ball tempering beforehand, Smith is LITERALLY NOT LUCKY TO BE IN THE TEAM for an action every team has done and that was ignored by umpires for decades. You also literally said he was lucky to be in the team, not just as captain, a page ago but okay.

What we saw from some on social media and the media on that day should be the new definition of pearl clutching. The team f’ed up, but they didn't deserve to be unprecedentedly punished for the wankfest that followed and still goes on today.
You're joking, right?

Every 5 year old starting out in the game knows that you do not tamper with the ball.

Learn how to read and comprehend what others are saying. The point I made is, given the nature of this particular instance of ball tampering and the fact that Smith was captain is that he is lucky he got a second chance (ergo lucky to be in the team for you, the uneducated) but I can live with that. I am firmly against him being captain. A position that most would agree with.

It's not that hard to understand. I pity people as stupid as you who struggle though.

Onto ignore you go. Life's too short to argue sense with morons.
 

Gethelred

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Considering there has never been any serious consequences or any real serious disapproval for ball tempering beforehand, Smith is LITERALLY NOT LUCKY TO BE IN THE TEAM for an action every team has done and that was ignored by umpires for decades. You also literally said he was lucky to be in the team, not just as captain, a page ago but okay.

What we saw from some on social media and the media on that day should be the new definition of pearl clutching. The team f’ed up, but they didn't deserve to be unprecedentedly punished for the wankfest that followed and still goes on today.
What you saw on that day was widespread rejection of what had been allowed to become the status quo. Ask yourself why you are arguing against it, and then get back to me.

Is it that it (it being, a systemic plan to tamper with the ball that was admitted to by the captain after being caught) wasn't or isn't as bad an offense in your eyes? Is it that it was an open secret within first grade circles, and all nations engaged in similar behaviour in different ways? Is it that you don't like sanctimonious behaviour? Is it that you don't like the idea of noncricket people (or people you perceive as noncricket people) having a say in your game or in appropriate behaviour within it?

Because, at the end of it, the above isn't really what the balltampering thing was about. It was an Australian sporting captain admitting to a planned and executed attempt to cheat in an international arena after being caught.

Small wonder why it caused the uproar it caused.
 
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Santana

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You're joking, right?

Every 5 year old starting out in the game knows that you do not tamper with the ball.

Learn how to read and comprehend what others are saying. The point I made is, given the nature of this particular instance of ball tampering and the fact that Smith was captain is that he is lucky he got a second chance (ergo lucky to be in the team for you, the uneducated) but I can live with that. I am firmly against him being captain. A position that most would agree with.

It's not that hard to understand. I pity people as stupid as you who struggle though.

Onto ignore you go. Life's too short to argue sense with morons.
Maybe you should take your own advice. You are the one who said he was lucky to still be in the side. It was then pointed out considering the historical precedent he was in fact NOT. As you say, it's not that hard to understand.

On ignore already? lol and after so many insults too. What a loss not conversing with you will be. Go back to the political board.

What you saw on that day was widespread rejection of what had been allowed to become the status quo. Ask yourself why you are arguing against it, and then get back to me.

Is it that it (it being, a systemic plan to tamper with the ball that was admitted to by the captain after being caught) wasn't or isn't as bad an offense in your eyes? Is it that it was an open secret within first grade circles, and all nations engaged in similar behaviour in different ways? Is it that you don't like sanctimonious behaviour? Is it that you don't like the idea of noncricket people (or people you perceive as noncricket people) having a say in your game or in appropriate behaviour within it?

Because, at the end of it, the above isn't really what the balltampering thing was about. It was an Australian sporting captain admitting to a planned and executed attempt to cheat in an international arena after being caught.

Small wonder why it caused the uproar it caused.
Widespread rejection of ball tempering or the Australian cricket team? Because if it the former I'd argue it really didn't change a whole lot. Chandimal got done for it after Newlands and most people didn't care at the time or have forgotten.

There are a lot of things that still annoy me about that day. Firstly it was the players for f*cking up so much. Then it was the hypocrisy of so many others despite that own history's. Then it was the sanctimonious "Not Australian Way" behaviour from some. The calls for unprecedented bans because we had to show the rest of the world that this was bad, it was up to us Aussies. Some saying that it was totally different to all other ball tempering because of how extreme it was. Completely ignoring Crowe admitting captaining a side that used bottle caps to temper with the ball years ago. Which isn't that far away from sandpaper. But we were the ones who stepped over the line according to some.

I don't believe there would have been the same reaction for anyone else, especially from within. That's what annoys me. And no, I don't condone our players going that far. The leadership group had to step down and there had to be some changes to the team culture.
 

corbies

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This thread is an interesting read given what transpired from both Warner and South Africa afterwards.

The escalation of ball tampering in international cricket in the 2010s would be a fascinating tale if all parties involved were willing to fill in the timeline. We need some sort of ball tampering amnesty where everyone comes out and lets us into the secrets of the dark arts.
 

Gethelred

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This thread is an interesting read given what transpired from both Warner and South Africa afterwards.

The escalation of ball tampering in international cricket in the 2010s would be a fascinating tale if all parties involved were willing to fill in the timeline. We need some sort of ball tampering amnesty where everyone comes out and lets us into the secrets of the dark arts.
I've always been something of a purist here. I'm good at shining a cricket ball, and I became that way by learning how to make the thing move and the best ways to get it to happen. Used to be able, given a sh*t ball and no other option, to get the ball going Irish (swinging towards the heavier side, as opposed to dry ball reverse swing) with proper application of moisture and effort.

The way I see it, people at the top level don't get the time needed to become good at it. You're playing for your state or country before you're 25; this is sh*t it took me a decade of trial and error to work out, largely because the last thing club cricket in Australia is good at is getting the kookaburra swinging and keeping it swinging. Without ball tampering, that is.

When I first started, my teammates used to ask me to go find a patch of clover on the ground. They'd squeeze it, grind it in their hands until it was a paste, and they'd apply it to the ball. Shines up the ball an absolute treat, barely any effort required, takes all of 30 seconds and it lasts. Changed clubs when I hit my early 20's, and I never let a team I've been involved in do it again. It cheapened the ability I'd spent years honing, both the ability to make the ball move when bowling and the ability to maintain it so other people could use it.

I suppose I've the luxury of not playing for my country, for a living. But you either hold yourself to standards or you don't. This is one of mine.
 

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