Steven Silvagni: Football's Biggest Fraud

TonaldDrump

Team Captain
Nov 30, 2016
505
716
AFL Club
Essendon
Seriously how does this bloke have the reputation he does?

How does he seemingly have free reign to as he pleases at Carlton and end up with promotions.

What has he actually achieved?

All this talk about Bolton and maybe he was part of the problem but this bloke has been in charge of their list 5 years.

Won zero finals, his drafting leaves a fair bit to be desired in my opinion and year after year they have the same giant flaws.

This man has a lot of people conned including the media. Don’t think I’ve seen them ever criticise his record.

Always banging on about him winning trade periods. How can you win them when they don’t lead to any sort of genuine success?
 
Oct 2, 2007
46,964
115,484
Willy back beach
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Everton FC Williamstown FC
Seriously how does this bloke have the reputation he does?

How does he seemingly have free reign to as he pleases at Carlton and end up with promotions.

What has he actually achieved?

All this talk about Bolton and maybe he was part of the problem but this bloke has been in charge of their list 5 years.

Won zero finals, his drafting leaves a fair bit to be desired in my opinion and year after year they have the same giant flaws.

This man has a lot of people conned including the media. Don’t think I’ve seen them ever criticise his record.

Always banging on about him winning trade periods. How can you win them when they don’t lead to any sort of genuine success?

A reputation for what?
 

dean33

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 10, 2007
12,351
18,398
melb
AFL Club
Richmond
Seriously how does this bloke have the reputation he does?

How does he seemingly have free reign to as he pleases at Carlton and end up with promotions.

What has he actually achieved?

All this talk about Bolton and maybe he was part of the problem but this bloke has been in charge of their list 5 years.

Won zero finals, his drafting leaves a fair bit to be desired in my opinion and year after year they have the same giant flaws.

This man has a lot of people conned including the media. Don’t think I’ve seen them ever criticise his record.

Always banging on about him winning trade periods. How can you win them when they don’t lead to any sort of genuine success?
Most people I know all believe SOS is a fraud. What makes it even worse is he is an arrogant fraud.
 

TonaldDrump

Team Captain
Nov 30, 2016
505
716
AFL Club
Essendon
Most people I know all believe SOS is a fraud. What makes it even worse is he is an arrogant fraud.
I have met many Carlton supporters who believe that SOS and co will make them a premiership contender from 2020 onwards.

Seems a little far fetched though.
 
Aug 13, 2006
14,778
13,879
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
His drafting has been good but not great, the same as it was at GWS. The reality is when you have a heap of top picks you'll miss out on some. The best clubs don't have top 10 pick busts because they don't have top 10 picks!

I like the better picks up from GWS - Marchbank, Setterfield, Plowman etc and the way he creative worked some of those trades and took on salary dumps.

If he made some errors I think it's that I'm shocked it took until this year to look at players like Gibbons a Newman just to thicken up the soup so to say. Too many light bodies overexposed in 2017/2018 and Bolton's plan of playing the kids on ball was a shocker.

Overall he's done a great job in one of the toughest gigs in town - bunkering down and waiting out the storm through a full Carlton rebuild.

Up until yesterday...... Martin might work out - sounds like GC are to blame for that one, and Papley might not have been available but it has to be disappointing that they haven't landed either of them. Watch and see.
 

TonaldDrump

Team Captain
Nov 30, 2016
505
716
AFL Club
Essendon
His drafting has been good but not great, the same as it was at GWS. The reality is when you have a heap of top picks you'll miss out on some. The best clubs don't have top 10 pick busts because they don't have top 10 picks!

I like the better picks up from GWS - Marchbank, Setterfield, Plowman etc and the way he creative worked some of those trades and took on salary dumps.

If he made some errors I think it's that I'm shocked it took until this year to look at players like Gibbons a Newman just to thicken up the soup so to say. Too many light bodies overexposed in 2017/2018 and Bolton's plan of playing the kids on ball was a shocker.

Overall he's done a great job in one of the toughest gigs in town - bunkering down and waiting out the storm through a full Carlton rebuild.

Up until yesterday...... Martin might work out - sounds like GC are to blame for that one, and Papley might not have been available but it has to be disappointing that they haven't landed either of them. Watch and see.
I agree that is drafting has been ok or even good. When you have multiple first round picks since every year you've been in charge you're eventually going to get one or two right. It would be impossible not to get at least 1 or 2 good players.

However, his inability to get played traded to his club is completely amateur. They missed out on, Saad, Smith, Shiel, Cognilio, Gaff, Kelly, Papley and Martin. If they had even got 2 of those players in they would be a chance for the 8 in 2020.
 
Aug 13, 2006
14,778
13,879
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
I agree that is drafting has been ok or even good. When you have multiple first round picks since every year you've been in charge you're eventually going to get one or two right. It would be impossible not to get at least 1 or 2 good players.

However, his inability to get played traded to his club is completely amateur. They missed out on, Saad, Smith, Shiel, Cognilio, Gaff, Kelly, Papley and Martin. If they had even got 2 of those players in they would be a chance for the 8 in 2020.
They were a terrible side in the middle of a full blown rebuild up until this year. I can't blame him for missing out on Saad, Smith, Shiel, Gaff or Kelly. What could anyone have done to convince those players to move to Carlton over the last 2 years? And Coniglio stayed, good for him.

Potentially going 0-2 when you're really well placed to bring talent in to the club is a problem but wait and see on Martin and they can either go again on Papley next year or find someone else.
 

Kreuuuzeurns

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 25, 2013
14,331
27,955
AFL Club
Carlton
I agree that is drafting has been ok or even good. When you have multiple first round picks since every year you've been in charge you're eventually going to get one or two right. It would be impossible not to get at least 1 or 2 good players.

However, his inability to get played traded to his club is completely amateur. They missed out on, Saad, Smith, Shiel, Cognilio, Gaff, Kelly, Papley and Martin. If they had even got 2 of those players in they would be a chance for the 8 in 2020.

Four of those players didn’t move clubs. Good on them for staying but we didn’t “miss out” on them, although I’m disappointed with how Papley ended.
Martin still may get to Carlton for effectively nothing.
The first three have done SFA in September and that doesn’t look like changing much.

Drafting has been good, if we get in those players then the drafting doesn’t look so good.

Time to start moving up the ladder. Happy to start criticising if we don’t soon.
 

TonaldDrump

Team Captain
Nov 30, 2016
505
716
AFL Club
Essendon
Four of those players didn’t move clubs. Good on them for staying but we didn’t “miss out” on them, although I’m disappointed with how Papley ended.
Martin still may get to Carlton for effectively nothing.
The first three have done SFA in September and that doesn’t look like changing much.

Drafting has been good, if we get in those players then the drafting doesn’t look so good.

Time to start moving up the ladder. Happy to start criticising if we don’t soon.
Those players stayed because SOS couldn't sell an avocado to a millennial.

Drafting hasn't been that good tbh. Dow, SPS ect all seem likes busts
 

btdg

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 7, 2005
5,579
9,434
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Carlton
People tend to be a bit black and white about things. Either someone is amazing or terrible. Truth is probably somewhere in the middle, with different strengths and weaknesses.

SOS has done a good job of:
- adopting a long term view, moving on the right older players to maximise draft currency early in the rebuild
- overall list strategy: starting with good talls, adding midfielders, then trying to fill the gaps and fringes

SOS has done an ok job:
- using high draft picks on players who a club can be built around

SOS has done a terrible job:
- later draft picks and rookie picks
- bringing in cheap veterans From other clubs to play roles
- Completing trades and deals for ‘difference making’ players at other clubs

I think we recognised the first two terrible points 18 months ago and have since brought in others to support thin specifically with those things.

The last point is an ongoing worry. In my view, he’s too worried about winning trades and too conservative in what he will give up. Who cares if you overpay for a good player - in the end, no one argues over whether Jack Martin is worth pick 9 or pick 22. What matters is whether they make the team better.

No doubt that will be looked at this year. The club won’t be happy at missing again. But by and large, the team has the best young core we have had since 2009 - just haven’t been able to round off the team and list
 

blueboy25

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 14, 2006
8,406
11,188
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
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West Perth, Tottenham
When he said that the Papley deal didn't get done because they were waiting on the Daniher deal I was gobsmacked.

How in the hell can you tie your #1 (or #2 at worst) target to another team's deal with no plan B?

Wouldn't trust this bloke to make a move for me in connect 4.
Maybe the plan B was to keep pick 9 and use it at the draft if the price to get that player was too high? or don't you consider that a plan B

Pretty sure Sydney at the start said unless they got daniher they wouldn't trade Papley.
 
Seriously how does this bloke have the reputation he does?

Well, he was full back in the Team of the Century.

What's Dodoro's footy qualification again?
 

Kreuuuzeurns

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 25, 2013
14,331
27,955
AFL Club
Carlton
Those players stayed because SOS couldn't sell an avocado to a millennial.

Drafting hasn't been that good tbh. Dow, SPS ect all seem likes busts

They stayed because they play at contending clubs with strong cultures. In Papleys case he stayed because the deal was contingent on Dodoro.

SPS is tracking perfectly fine for a pick 6 and finished top 10 in the bnf. Dow is a second year player whose shown some good traits and seemingly had a case of the second year blues. Write them off if you’d like.
 
A good player doesn't always translate into a good coach, list manager ect.

Examples: Brad Scott and Rhys Shaw

Hirdy.jpg
 
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