Stewart crameri

[timtamWB]

Pick 22 and JJ wil get the deal done.

No it won't. JJ is too important to us, and a very good player. I personally wouldn't trade JJ for Crameri, but that's because we have a dearth of HBF's and JJ looks like being a potentially elite HBFer, great foot skills, great awareness. JJ is not going to be involved in any deal.

 

[Jab]

You guys have been warned repeatedly, yet some of you do not listen. Posts have been deleted and infractions are on their way.

Keep posting like little kids and you'll be put in the naughty corner. If behaving like a child is your thing, piss off to Bay 13.

 

[master bate]

Yes we have been punished with draft sanctions. Yes, we can't afford to lose him for nothing during this time. Yes, if it comes down to the deadline and still the trade hasn't gone through, we need to accept the 22.

But you would think the Bulldogs will do the right thing instead of doing the low act. Karma is a bch. It will get you in someway. Maybe end up picking a dud with pick 4 or gets poor Stringer...

If Essendon don't accept pick 22 it will only be Essendon supporters who think the dogs have been unreasonable. Everyone else will put the blame squarely with Essendon.

This deal does show AFL is a harsh business. The dons bring in Goddard and if they didn't you wouldn't have Myers screaming for more midfield time and could probably over paid Crameri a little. Not to mention the supplement scandal which would've had some effect on Crameri staying no matter what he says and you lose your draft picks so you can't get involved in giving more complex swaps than the straight forward trade.

The Essendon and Crameri saga reminds me of this US government shut down. The dons are stuffed either way but they have to hold out as long as possible but not after the end of trade week when the wheels fall off. Eventually they'll probably have to settle for a bad deal.

If karma is involved in any way in this situation it could be that the Dogs pay Crameri so much they can't afford a big signing at some stage. But with the age of some guys on their list they should be ok for that. Or it could be that Essendon get some good karma by making a deal and living to fight another day and then end up with a player on their door step once the club has become a popular destination again.

 

[dylan123]

We had pick 17 for Caddy. We gave Hooker plus 17 for Caddy but we were being told that was not good enough. Clearly that offer was more than Caddy's worth. Apparently we should have given up Heppell and We are hard to trade with.

So when the shoe is on the other foot, we apparently should take pick 22. Funny that. If you want our quality player then pay the price. Don't try to shaft us. Pick 22 and JJ wil get the deal done. Not like we are asking for Stringer or Libba on top of 22. Or it is not like we are asking for pick 4. We want the right value.

Yes we have been punished with draft sanctions. Yes, we can't afford to lose him for nothing during this time. Yes, if it comes down to the deadline and still the trade hasn't gone through, we need to accept the 22.

But you would think the Bulldogs will do the right thing instead of doing the low act. Karma is a bch. It will get you in someway. Maybe end up picking a dud with pick 4 or gets poor Stringer...

*Haven't read the entire thread, only the last two pages*

Isn't the difference between the Caddy and Crameri situation in that a few clubs were after Caddy in yourselves and Geelong (possibly others, I can't remember) which helped push his value up for GC in what they got in return. Crameri on the other hand only had one suitor so far in the Dogs (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) in which case, they don't really have to be putting up "fair" value for an uncontracted player when they're offering a decent figure ($$$) which in turn is making them the only club interested in him/him interested in going to them the most. If they wanted, couldn't they just get him via the draft with the price tag they've offered on his head without having any real threats? And if someone suggests GWS as a potential threat in the PSD (which I don't believe they would be), why not send him to the national draft where they could use their second round pick (22 which will probably be 25 when the compo picks are given out) which would likely put off any other clubs that may have been interested?

So considering they could get him for free via the draft, their second round pick comes across as pretty fair for someone who is uncontracted imo.

 

[Jab]

Good post dylan123. Add to that, we have little bargaining power. We can't swap 2nd round picks as we dont have one. Maybe if we get something for Gumbleton we can use that, but right now we don't have much. The deal will get done, but the club is probably holding out to see if they can get anything else in other trades to use to increase what they get.

 

[Andronicus]

It's clear that we have little bargaining power, but the faux outrage some here are showing is really quite disproportionate.

In a 3 week trading period, we are being called arrogant by most for not just accepting the first pick being tabled.

The bulldogs know that they are offering unders, and many here have admitted as such. Is it unreasonable? Probably not considering the position, but why is the decision to hold out and see if a better offer can be negotiated considered to be arrogant.

Some people just want to feel they are taking the moral high ground by regurgitating the notion that we are difficult to deal with. Why is it considered a bad thing to try to get whats best for the club?

 

[ManOfClay]

Crameri out
Chapman in + what we get from the Dogs. = Win

In the last 2 seasons



Crameri - Chapman
Games: 34 - 29


Marks: 146 - 134
Goals: 62 - 48


Chapman will cost nothing, $200,000 cheaper and has Crameri covered in every area easily. Nothing to complain about from me.

Covered in every area easily except games, marks and goals.

21 of Chapman's games came in 2012, too.

 

[boydsno1]

If the shoe was on the other foot Essendon would never even offer pick 22. They would just refuse to talk to the dogs and take the player straight from the PSD instead of trying to be fair like the dogs have. The fact the bombers cracked up a stink over pick 22 makes me hope the club removes it from the table and takes him at the PSD. Going by his manager it seems crameri will be happy to go via the PSD.

 

[footyfan000001]

It's clear that we have little bargaining power, but the faux outrage some here are showing is really quite disproportionate.

In a 3 week trading period, we are being called arrogant by most for not just accepting the first pick being tabled.

The bulldogs know that they are offering unders, and many here have admitted as such. Is it unreasonable? Probably not considering the position, but why is the decision to hold out and see if a better offer can be negotiated considered to be arrogant.

Some people just want to feel they are taking the moral high ground by regurgitating the notion that we are difficult to deal with. Why is it considered a bad thing to try to get whats best for the club?

I don't think arrogant is the correct word. I just think Dons fans should be happy with getting Pick 22 and an exchange of later picks rather than losing him for nothing. Rather than cracking it about us giving you unders - think outside the square and that pick 22ish could land you someone like Dal Santo or Bernie Vince who could be the final piece of the puzzle for a Bombers flag. A good relationship between both clubs is healthy - especially for future trades.

Crameri wants to come to us. Pick 4 won't be going anywhere so therefore we only have pick 22. JJ is the only player that you are 'supposedly' interested in and he is as important to us as Dempsey is for you guys.

 

[DapperDon]

Was about to post something like this, BR&B.

I'm not a life long Essendon hater. Far from it. However, the sense of entitlement many Bombers people still have is a bit sad.
A bit like Carlton in the early days of their punishment:
"We don't deserve this," they cried when being smashed by "lesser" clubs.

"Oh yes, you do," cried everyone else.

Bit the same now, IMO.

Let's talk about Crameri yeah? If you want to talk off field go to the HTB.

 

[DapperDon]

I don't think arrogant is the correct word. I just think Dons fans should be happy with getting Pick 22 and an exchange of later picks rather than losing him for nothing. Rather than cracking it about us giving you unders - think outside the square and that pick 22ish could land you someone like Dal Santo or Bernie Vince who could be the final piece of the puzzle for a Bombers flag. A good relationship between both clubs is healthy - especially for future trades.

Crameri wants to come to us. Pick 4 won't be going anywhere so therefore we only have pick 22. JJ is the only player that you are 'supposedly' interested in and he is as important to us as Dempsey is for you guys.

This is what is pissing me off. Essendon supporters aren't blaming Doggies for offering us unders. We know that's all you can offer. What Dog supporters need to understand it's nothing personal that Essendon are looking to somehow get something better via a 3 way trade. I highly doubt we asked for pick 4 and I'm yet to see any Essendon supporter here ask for it.

We know we can get 22, and if we can't work something else we'll accept it. Everyone needs to chill and get over this "I want it NOW" mentality.

 

[footyfan000001]

This is what is pissing me off. Essendon supporters aren't blaming Doggies for offering us unders. We know that's all you can offer. What Dog supporters need to understand it's nothing personal that Essendon are looking to somehow get something better via a 3 way trade. I highly doubt we asked for pick 4 and I'm yet to see any Essendon supporter here ask for it.

We know we can get 22, and if we can't work something else we'll accept it. Everyone needs to chill and get over this "I want it NOW" mentality.

Well said!

 

[Andronicus]

I don't think arrogant is the correct word. I just think Dons fans should be happy with getting Pick 22 and an exchange of later picks rather than losing him for nothing. Rather than cracking it about us giving you unders - think outside the square and that pick 22ish could land you someone like Dal Santo or Bernie Vince who could be the final piece of the puzzle for a Bombers flag. A good relationship between both clubs is healthy - especially for future trades.

Crameri wants to come to us. Pick 4 won't be going anywhere so therefore we only have pick 22. JJ is the only player that you are 'supposedly' interested in and he is as important to us as Dempsey is for you guys.

Agree with much of what you say.

Unfortunately, while you may not think arrogant is the correct word, plenty of people are throwing it around.

As you mentioned, getting creative and seeing what can happen with pick 22 is what needs to be done. My thoughts are that the delay is sounding out just what sort of possibilities there are with other clubs using that pick before they jump on it.

As dapper said, I've not heard any EFC supporters suggesting pick four is a fair deal. Why not use the time to sort it out properly so we don't do something stupid like Richmond did in the Hampson trade.

 

[Testekill]

We know that's all you can offer. What Dog supporters need to understand it's nothing personal that Essendon are looking to somehow get something better via a 3 way trade. I highly doubt we asked for pick 4 and I'm yet to see any Essendon supporter here ask for it.

And that's the thing. Why should the Bulldogs help Essendon obtain something better? We are in no way duty bound to do right by Essendon and the Maccas are only offering a fair pick because we don't want to look like a club that's bad to do business with.

 

[Astro Bomber]

How about 22 and a swap of 4th rounders. i.e
Crameri + 62 for 22 + 56
That way the doggies aren't really loosing much because 62 and 56 are hit and miss picks and it gives
us dons supporters a feeling that we aren't being completely ripped off.

 

[maddog37]

This is what is pissing me off. Essendon supporters aren't blaming Doggies for offering us unders. We know that's all you can offer. What Dog supporters need to understand it's nothing personal that Essendon are looking to somehow get something better via a 3 way trade. I highly doubt we asked for pick 4 and I'm yet to see any Essendon supporter here ask for it.

We know we can get 22, and if we can't work something else we'll accept it. Everyone needs to chill and get over this "I want it NOW" mentality.

But what if the Dogs are also trying to tie up other deals and waiting on the Bombers to decide stymies their ability to trade elsewhere? If it is left to the last minute then other opportunities may well be lost. Surely two weeks would be long enough to explore other avenues so that all parties can move on from this particular trade.

 

[Wild Bill]

If another player came along they could get for 22 then it would make things interesting. Maybe we could give the Dogs a player and then on sell that to the Saints for NDS and the Dogs get Crameri in the PSD.

 

[Tippett2Goal]

If another player came along they could get for 22 then it would make things interesting. Maybe we could give the Dogs a player and then on sell that to the Saints for NDS and the Dogs get Crameri in the PSD.

Not the worst idea, would be shopping Tarrant around if it was me, unlikely he'll be getting games with Black and Petrie ahead of him.

 

[Two Eyes]

Not the worst idea, would be shopping Tarrant around if it was me, unlikely he'll be getting games with Black and Petrie ahead of him.

Tarrant is an interesting one. Would he have much value? I guess it wouldn't hurt to gaugue the market. Unfortunately he seems to be another tall forward with good hands but a poor kick at goal...

 

[lemon chicken]

But what if the Dogs are also trying to tie up other deals and waiting on the Bombers to decide stymies their ability to trade elsewhere? If it is left to the last minute then other opportunities may well be lost. Surely two weeks would be long enough to explore other avenues so that all parties can move on from this particular trade.

If FA compo was awarded straight after the deal is finalised it was save a lot of hassle, at the moment we still have no idea what 22 actually will be.

 

[ManOfClay]

Covered in every area easily except games, marks and goals.

21 of Chapman's games came in 2012, too.

No response here The Bomb

 

[Tippett2Goal]

Tarrant is an interesting one. Would he have much value? I guess it wouldn't hurt to gaugue the market. Unfortunately he seems to be another tall forward with good hands but a poor kick at goal...

Honestly I don't know what sort of value he'd attract on open market potential is still there, so whilst he hasn't shown as much as Crameri may be worth similar value, late teens?

The Kangaroos may see him as worth more to them than they can attract in trade value though so who knows.

 

[Two Eyes]

If FA compo was awarded straight after the deal is finalised it was save a lot of hassle, at the moment we still have no idea what 22 actually will be.

The problem with awarding it straight away is that its for the net player movements. Another FA movement either way would potentially change the compensation. Still the AFL should give a provisional grading subject to further movements.

 

[The Bomb]

Covered in every area easily except games, marks and goals.

21 of Chapman's games came in 2012, too.

No response here The Bomb

Crameri - Chapman

Kicks: 7.4 - 13.2
H/Balls: 5.9 - 7.1
Disposals: 13.4 - 20.3
Clearances: 0.2 - 2.6
Marks: 4.2 - 4.6
Goals: 1.8 - 1.6
Tackles: 2.1 - 4.4

Ok I was wrong Crameri gets 0.2 extra goals a game.
Crameri only played 8 more games than Chapman in 2013.
Lets face it, Chapman goes in the middle with 78 clearances compared to Crameri's 9, yet still matches Crameri up Forward, if not beats him, while there much less % of time.
Chapman puts pressure on the opposition, Crameri still needs to learn what forward pressure is.
Chapman is miles ahead of Crameri. But if you think otherwise well good luck.

 

[Wild Bill]

Crameri - Chapman

Kicks: 7.4 - 13.2
H/Balls: 5.9 - 7.1
Disposals: 13.4 - 20.3
Clearances: 0.2 - 2.6
Marks: 4.2 - 4.6
Goals: 1.8 - 1.6
Tackles: 2.1 - 4.4

Ok I was wrong Crameri gets 0.2 extra goals a game.
Crameri only played 8 more games than Chapman in 2013.
Lets face it, Chapman goes in the middle with 78 clearances compared to Crameri's 9, yet still matches Crameri up Forward, if not beats him, while there much less % of time.
Chapman puts pressure on the opposition, Crameri still needs to learn what forward pressure is.
Chapman is miles ahead of Crameri. But if you think otherwise well good luck.

Essendon will be in front of that swap over if they play the same amount of games.