Play Nice Still no evidence against Melbourne re: tanking

rfctiger74

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There can be varying levels of tanking. But at the end of the day tanking is tanking. There's no doubt teams other than Melbourne have tanked. No coach will admit to it. Why would they want to dirty their name?
Because Wally is an idiot who loves attention, why else would he say what he did?

I still love the fact that Wallaces lame tanking effort actually saw us come close to winning the game - if only he tanked more often he may still have a job :D
 

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markm106

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Because Wally is an idiot who loves attention, why else would he say what he did?

I still love the fact that Wallaces lame tanking effort actually saw us come close to winning the game - if only he tanked more often he may still have a job :D
Yes but he didn't specifically come out and say 'I coached to lose' no one will do this.
 

markm106

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I though baileys comments the day he was sacked when he saidi ""I had no hesitation at all in the first two years in ensuring the club was well placed for draft picks"

That is an admision
That may sound like it. But again he hasn't admitted to coaching to lose. He in fact continues to deny it.
 

SunshineTiger

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That may sound like it. But again he hasn't admitted to coaching to lose. He in fact continues to deny it.
So what does well placed for draft picks mean and how would you go about doing this?

Would you win every posibbe game and be well placed for draft picks, or would you say only win enough games to ensure a priority pick......now that is a conundrum.

But feel free to explain that comment
 

markm106

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So what does well placed for draft picks mean and how would you go about doing this?

Would you win every posibbe game and be well placed for draft picks, or would you say only win enough games to ensure a priority pick......now that is a conundrum.

But feel free to explain that comment
As I said it sounds like an admission. You would have to ask Bailey. I'm just pointing out he continues to deny tanking.
 

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SunshineTiger

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Where did he say that?
The inference of positioning the club for draft picks is that he wasnt allowed to win more that no of games, and i suggest that will be the path the AFL goes down if and when they charge him, them or the club,

It would not be impossible to conclude that the AFL have asked to expand on the comment about positioning the club for draft picks and how he ensured that......

Given that the only way to do that is to ensure less then a cetrain amount of wins, well wins are hard to ensure , but losses are much much easier.

Is this starting to sound like tanking or match fixing........he got you guys good in his exit press conference.

And im no big city lawyer,
 

SunshineTiger

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Just to ensure that we are talking about what he actually did


""I had no hesitation at all in the first two years in ensuring the club was well placed for draft picks"

en·sure

[en-shoo r, -shur] Show IPA
verb (used with object), en·sured, en·sur·ing.
1.
to secure or guarantee: This letter will ensure you a hearing.
2.
to make sure or certain: measures to ensure the success of an undertaking.
3.
to make secure or safe, as from harm.
4.
insure ( defs 1–3 ) .
Origin:
1350–1400; Middle English ensuren < Anglo-French enseurer. See en-1 , sure

Related forms
en·sur·er, noun.
un·en·sured, adjective.
 

markm106

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The inference of positioning the club for draft picks is that he wasnt allowed to win more that no of games, and i suggest that will be the path the AFL goes down if and when they charge him, them or the club,

It would not be impossible to conclude that the AFL have asked to expand on the comment about positioning the club for draft picks and how he ensured that......

Given that the only way to do that is to ensure less then a cetrain amount of wins, well wins are hard to ensure , but losses are much much easier.

Is this starting to sound like tanking or match fixing........he got you guys good in his exit press conference.

And im no big city lawyer,
So he never said the four and a half wins comment. That's what I was getting at. And wasn't he already cleared of the comment your referring to. That won't be lost on his defence.
Look I think we did tank. Go through my posts you will see that. I just think it will be harder to prove. Especially on one comment.
 
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Seem to be quite a few different camps of Melbourne supporters

1. We didn't tank, we managed our list like anyone else.

2. Yeah we clearly tanked but try and prove it. Neener neener!

3. Yeah we tanked, but it's the AFL's fault for providing the incentive, not ours.

4. Yeah we tanked, but so did *insert club here* so the AFL are hypocrites if they come after us.

5. Yeah we tanked, but we were genuinely crap and deserved a priority pick anyway, so it's all good.

6. Yeah we tanked but we've suffered enough over the last 40 years, leave us alone.

7. Yeah we tanked but it won't hold up in court. The Melbourne FC is an institution and a juggernaut that will destroy the AFL in Court.

Hard to remember who you are argueing with at any one time.
 

RandB

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Seem to be quite a few different camps of Melbourne supporters
MFC posters are no different to any other posters. Individuals with varying opinions - not that inconceivable is it?

Would it be more convenient for you if all Melbourne posters had the same opinion and you could pretend that we're collectively representative of the club so that you can spend every day arguing and feel better about life?

Hard to remember who you are argueing with at any one time.
Try looking at the username and avatar of the poster on the left.
 

coryne

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Seem to be quite a few different camps of Melbourne supporters

1. We didn't tank, we managed our list like anyone else.

2. Yeah we clearly tanked but try and prove it. Neener neener!

3. Yeah we tanked, but it's the AFL's fault, not ours.

4. Yeah we tanked, but so did *insert club here* so the AFL are hypocrites if they come after us.

5. Yeah we tanked, but we were genuinely crap and deserved a priority pick anyway, so it's all good.

6. Yeah we tanked but we've suffered enough over the last 40 years, leave us alone.

7. Yeah we tanked but it won't hold up in court. The Melbourne FC is an institution and a juggernaut that will destroy the AFL in Court.

Hard to remember who you are argueing with at any one time.

You forgot the

8. Define what tanking is so we can decide if we did it or not (which is the line I expect Melbourne to take if they challenge any charges)
 
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MFC posters are no different to any other posters. Individuals with varying opinions - not that inconceivable is it... <snip>
Nice rant but kinda missing the point.

I was simply referencing the fact that non-Melbourne supporters are responding to particular Melbourne posters and then having their comments taken out of context by other Melbourne posters with a completely different read on the situation.

You might be too close to see it but it makes participating in the thread a very strange experience. It is very rare where you see a particular supporter base coming at something from so many different (often contradictory) angles. Usernames and avatars start to blend after a while.

It's an observation, not an attack.
 

Higgs Boson

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Seem to be quite a few different camps of Melbourne supporters

1. We didn't tank, we managed our list like anyone else.

2. Yeah we clearly tanked but try and prove it. Neener neener!

3. Yeah we tanked, but it's the AFL's fault for providing the incentive, not ours.

4. Yeah we tanked, but so did *insert club here* so the AFL are hypocrites if they come after us.

5. Yeah we tanked, but we were genuinely crap and deserved a priority pick anyway, so it's all good.

6. Yeah we tanked but we've suffered enough over the last 40 years, leave us alone.

7. Yeah we tanked but it won't hold up in court. The Melbourne FC is an institution and a juggernaut that will destroy the AFL in Court.

Hard to remember who you are argueing with at any one time.
2, 3, 5 (minus the neener neener part)
 

Ando727

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Seem to be quite a few different camps of Melbourne supporters

1. We didn't tank, we managed our list like anyone else.

2. Yeah we clearly tanked but try and prove it. Neener neener!

3. Yeah we tanked, but it's the AFL's fault for providing the incentive, not ours.

4. Yeah we tanked, but so did *insert club here* so the AFL are hypocrites if they come after us.

5. Yeah we tanked, but we were genuinely crap and deserved a priority pick anyway, so it's all good.

6. Yeah we tanked but we've suffered enough over the last 40 years, leave us alone.

7. Yeah we tanked but it won't hold up in court. The Melbourne FC is an institution and a juggernaut that will destroy the AFL in Court.

Hard to remember who you are argueing with at any one time.
Yes, there are many camps, so it would seem logical to avoid using generalisations about Melbourne supporters. Doesn't stop people sprouting generalised crap about us.

You missed a few camps, btw:

1. (this is my camp) I don't give a crap anymore, I just want a verdict delivered, the penalty doled out and then we get on with our future and out of this media/BF shitstorm. Unless the penalty is cruel and unusual, I wouldn't support any court action to appeal it. At some point we just have to get on with life. I'd prefer it were now.

2. We are guilty, the club should be punished.

3. We are guilty, some individuals should be punished.
 

RandB

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Nice rant but kinda missing the point.
Hardly a rant TBD, a simple point.

I was simply referencing the fact that non-Melbourne supporters are responding to particular Melbourne posters and then having their comments taken out of context by other Melbourne posters with a completely different read on the situation.
Well that can happen in any forum I suppose but your post didn't convey this sentiment very well, if at all.

You might be too close to see it but it makes participating in the thread a very strange experience. It is very rare where you see a particular supporter base coming at something from so many different (often contradictory) angles. Usernames and avatars start to blend after a while.

It's an observation, not an attack.
You say it's an observation but sometimes we see what we want to see. Especially when we have pretty set views on something and then put all the opposing views (like the ones you listed) no matter how they vary in the same basket - ie MFC posters. Many of the different points you refered to have been echoed by non-mfc supporters as well both on BF and in public commentary. As time goes on who knows how many more ways opinions will evolve as more news comes to hand. This isn't just an MFC poster phenomenon.

The issue has been in the background since 2009 and brought to a head in recent times it is no surprise that many opinions and thoughts have evolved in different ways beyond just the simple notion/arguement of "oh no they tanked, hang 'em". It's a complex issue for many. 1 poster's view always has the propensity to contradict another poster's view, characterising those views as coming from the 1 supporter base and then highlighting contradictions is kind of benign.

If you are referring to individual posters contradicting their own posts then I find it convenient that it is just a certain select group of posters ie MFC posters but anyway.
 

SunshineTiger

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So he never said the four and a half wins comment. That's what I was getting at. And wasn't he already cleared of the comment your referring to. That won't be lost on his defence.
Look I think we did tank. Go through my posts you will see that. I just think it will be harder to prove. Especially on one comment.
He was over a cup of coffee, now with ll the other statements that the afl has collected, it is seen in a new light.

Out of curiosity what did you get from his statement about ensuring that the club was well positioned for draft picks?

Did you think that maybe he was manipulating the games to ensure you got them?

That's what any reasonable person would conclude.
 

markm106

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He was over a cup of coffee, now with ll the other statements that the afl has collected, it is seen in a new light.

Out of curiosity what did you get from his statement about ensuring that the club was well positioned for draft picks?

Did you think that maybe he was manipulating the games to ensure you got them?

That's what any reasonable person would conclude.
I have said multiple times I think we tanked. Of course he was talking about manipulating results. A I have also said he now denies this.
 
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