Stone Cold Bluff v Monster Hand

Jul 28, 2002
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Crosby87 said:
I disagree. If I'm second in chips, out of the money, the chip leader moves all-in, I don't care what my hand is, I fold. I know I can dominate him shorthanded, so I'm still confident about winning, no matter how many chips I have.

I at least would like to make sure I cash. I don't know about you, but I don't like playing for two hours, getting that close, without result.

It's not really playing conservative - it's playing smart. Why call off all your chips when you can smash him with aggressive play later?

It just doesnt make sense. Conventional strategy says - if everyone is playing tight - loosen up and steal pots. If everyone is playing loose, tighten up and wait for your spots - why should this change just because you are on the bubble?

Noone should EVER play to make the money - if thats all you are trying to do - then quit now. You'll never get anywhere playing like that - you have to play to win - thats where the real money is anyway.
 

Binxy

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I'm fairly inexperienced compared to you guys and this is a great read.

As I said earlier, I folded AKh on the bubble so I would make the money (I was on a pretty short stack so I'm glad I did) BUT I was thinking, as I was doing it, that serious players wouldn't do it and after reading Falchoon's/Phil Gordon's quote and the above from Doug the Almighty, I see the wisdom.

Don't know if I've got the.... how does Mike the Mouth put it?... the *cough* to play loose and aggressive yet, but I'll certainly be more inclined after reading this.
 
Feb 15, 2002
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Crosby87 said:
Perhaps it's because nobody has written it in a poker book? Lol.

Actually that's quite ironic. I personally have never read a poker book, virtually self taught, which is probably fine and dandy at the level I play, plus a lot of what I've read online I probably have done all along anyway, position, pot odds etc (I'm an analyst/non practicing qualified Accountant) but I have started reading a couple of sites that R+B has posted. The Phil Gordon one in particular catching my eye.

and my god have I discovered so many people who do play by the book. In fact if I never put into practice what I read in future I will still be a much better player having read the odd book or 2. Bubble poker being one example, raises by the button being another.

It is a great game.


Then again if any bookshop I'd ever been in had a decent poker book........
 

Crosby87

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It just doesnt make sense. Conventional strategy says - if everyone is playing tight - loosen up and steal pots. If everyone is playing loose, tighten up and wait for your spots - why should this change just because you are on the bubble?

Noone should EVER play to make the money - if thats all you are trying to do - then quit now. You'll never get anywhere playing like that - you have to play to win - thats where the real money is anyway.

I suggest you go back and re-read my posts. Bah, nobody understands what I mean, so whatever.

I speak of risking all my chips in on the bubble, and people accuse me of playing tight. Go back and read a post of mine when this forum opened, and I'm sure I gave people advice to play aggressive on the bubble.

Blah... where's the great Phil Gordon when you need him?
 
Sep 20, 2005
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Crosby87 said:
Oh, and Matusow isn't as aggressive as you would think.
I understand where you are coming from and I reckon these things all come down to how you feel at the time about what's going on around you. Sounds vague I know but I really think it's hard to say what's the right way to play cards in any situation without having a feel for the particular game.
Edit: I don't think that made sense.
 

red+black

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For those interested (I know doug had qualms about credit cards), I suggest you do what I did, and get a Visa Debit Card for the sole purpose of online transactions. The one I recommend is the Victorian Teachers Visa Debit card. How did I choose that you ask? Well I started at InfoChoice and selected Debit, VIC, No Annual Fee. When I need funds for Amazon, poker, etc, I EFT from my main account with another bank. So most of the time, I have next to no money in this account, I transfer funds when I know I need it.
 

Carefree-Rob

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red+black said:
I think some of you guys are way too tight. I've recommended tight play near a satellite bubble, but not in a real tournament. I'll have to side with dougthelegend on playing to win.

I'm playing Aces every time on the bubble against the chip leader.
Agreed, I think its ridiculous to even suggest folding AA preflop if called all in. Its the NUTS.

If you won't play that, what will you play?
 
Apr 6, 2005
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red+black said:
For thopse interested (I know doug had qualms about credit cards), I suggest you do what I did, and get a Visa Debit Card for the sole purpose of online transactions. The one I recommend is the Victorian Teachers Visa Debit card. How did I choose that you ask? Well I started at InfoChoice and selected Debit, VIC, No Annual Fee. When I need funds for Amazon, poker, etc, I EFT from my main account with another bank. So most of the time, I have next to no money in this account, I transfer funds when I know I need it.


Thanks r+b, i'll look at getting one as Id love to kick all your asses and take all your cashes :p;)
 

red+black

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Carefree-Rob said:
Agreed, I think its ridiculous to even suggest folding AA preflop if called all in. Its the NUTS.

If you won't play that, what will you play?
Well the alternative argument is wait until you're ITM (in the money). I would probably agree that if you're new to the game, have never cashed, that a cash result is a big deal and you could probably justify folding good hands. If you've played a bit and made a few good cashes, then your focus should no longer be to cash but to win. If I'm 2nd on the bubble, SS goes all in, CL goes all in, and I have Kings, I'm probably going all in too. If CL has rockets or busts me with a weaker hand, so be it, I bubble. Actually, in this case, if the CL scoops, I still finish ITM.
 

Crosby87

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Well the alternative argument is wait until you're ITM (in the money). I would probably agree that if you're new to the game, have never cashed, that a cash result is a big deal and you could probably justify folding good hands. If you've played a bit and made a few good cashes, then your focus should no longer be to cash but to win. If I'm 2nd on the bubble, SS goes all in, CL goes all in, and I have Kings, I'm probably going all in too. If CL has rockets or busts me with a weaker hand, so be it, I bubble. Actually, in this case, if the CL scoops, I still finish ITM.

Considering I have no money, ever, I would wait until the money. To say that's wrong is stupid. It's a matter of opinion. It's what I would do, and I'm sure everyone would differ. I don't think I ever said it was the correct thing to do.

But as my argument has been, to say that I'm a tight player, and to say that I won't go on to win the tournament by not picking up a bit pot, is silly and uneducated.
 

Crosby87

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His table manner is ultra agressive (by that i mean that he talks a lot of trash), but his actual poker play is pretty solid. The only thing ive noticed is that he seems to lose it when he loses a big pot or cops a bad beat, and his play suffers a bit.

For those who listen to the Circuit, Mike was on as a guest tonight, and it was pretty funny.
 
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