Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Power Raid

TheBrownDog
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Posts
61,652
Likes
50,407
Location
West Perth
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Are you referring to my post? If so, is that still happening or you too stuck in the past?
No outrage for the other illegals happening now?
outrage? no outrage at all from my side. completely calm is the only way to deal with this.

yes, horrendous things happen around the world and many people need our help. unfortunately there are 45m refugees and many more if you add economic refugees (who are just as important to this nation).

we clearly can't help them all, so that means we have to have a quota, which means a queue and a process.

if you look at the heartache and pain suffered by refugees, you will see nothing but misery. but that doesn't help you or the victims.

but running a sustainable process which is run by governments (not people smugglers or the refugees), in co-operation with the rest of the world, it will provide the maximum people with the maximum chance of success in their new homelands.

we can then focus on the next group of people suffering in the never ending problem of refugees and people simply wanting a better chance in life (and good on them for wanting that). Just like when yours, and my family, did post ww2.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Maggie5

Spec Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Posts
35,110
Likes
31,767
Location
Victoria
AFL Club
Collingwood
Moderator #5,802
outrage? no outrage at all from my side. completely calm is the only way to deal with this.

yes, horrendous things happen around the world and many people need our help. unfortunately there are 45m refugees and many more if you add economic refugees (who are just as important to this nation).

we clearly can't help them all, so that means we have to have a quota, which means a queue and a process.

if you look at the heartache and pain suffered by refugees, you will see nothing but misery. but that doesn't help you or the victims.

but running a sustainable process which is run by governments (not people smugglers or the refugees), in co-operation with the rest of the world, it will provide the maximum people with the maximum chance of success in their new homelands.

we can then focus on the next group of people suffering in the never ending problem of refugees and people simply wanting a better chance in life (and good on them for wanting that). Just like when yours, and my family, did post ww2.
I will only focus on your last sentence as everything has been hashed too much already.
No, not like our time, very different economic and social times now. Australia is in a much better situation than late 40's and 50's.
 

Juddism

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Posts
6,286
Likes
1,763
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
West Coast
Are you kidding? This thread is nothing but moral jockeying.

Every single 'compassionate' solution offered would simply encourage people smugglers and boat arrivals thus causing more of the problems that got us here in the first place.

We tried it the compassionate way under Rudd. The end result being several hundred dead and several thousand in detention. Not to mention the billions wasted.

You will have to forgive me if I'm not impressed by solutions being offered that caused the problems in the first place.

As harsh as it sounds:

Being 'compassionate' in this issue has been a proven failure.

How many times must it fail for people to accept that?
just out of curiosity...what will be the outcome for those sent to Cambodia? because we're going to cough up even more if this disaster goes ahead.
 

Todman

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Posts
6,310
Likes
3,871
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Sorry, the government doesn't care how much it costs to keep AS in hell holes even it is double.
What is $61 million per month if it keeps those terrible human (sorry illegals) beings coming to Australia.
Aren't they confident enough in their policies working? Not sure, the boats have stopped.
$61 M a month is $732M per year.

Still a lot cheaper than what Rudd and Gillard were forced to spend.
 

Maggie5

Spec Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Posts
35,110
Likes
31,767
Location
Victoria
AFL Club
Collingwood
Moderator #5,808
$61 M a month is $732M per year.

Still a lot cheaper than what Rudd and Gillard were forced to spend.
Cheaper than on-shore processing? Centres are established, would only need staffing which would give opportunities for Australians to be employed, pay tax in Australia and maybe some of those jobs could go to unemployed.
 

mottrain

Premiership Player
Suspended
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Posts
3,826
Likes
1,667
AFL Club
Geelong
Still waiting for even one link where you stated:
The problem still remains and there's tonnes of material supporting that it has not been fully dealt with yet so it seems you are just deflecting.
Is 'deflecting' your buzz word? Here's one for you: avoiding.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...resettlement-deal-with-cambodia-reports-claim

Here honey. Here is an actual example of the ongoing dealings the government needs to get involved in to sort the situation.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Max zero

Premium Platinum
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Posts
12,196
Likes
7,241
Location
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
just out of curiosity...what will be the outcome for those sent to Cambodia? because we're going to cough up even more if this disaster goes ahead.
What will be the outcome for the 10s of millions stuck in refugee camps throughout the world?

We can't save everybody. At some point we have to draw a line.

Obviously people who are on the wrong side of that line will be unhappy and would like the line being draw somewhere else.

But unless you support completely open borders someone is going to end up very unhappy.
 

Jiska

Moderator
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Posts
24,465
Likes
29,833
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Storm
Moderator #5,815
Do you actually have a position to defend? Or are you just another panic merchant?

From your posting history in this thread you seem to say a whole lot of nothing.

I say again if I have characterized you wrongly then correct me by telling me where you actually stand or stop wasting my time.

I'm not going to take responsibility for you being deliberately vague then taking mock offense.
I take that as admission that you made incorrect, unfounded statements and just made up comments to suit yourself.

Fair enough. We all make stupid comments every now and then.
 

Power Raid

TheBrownDog
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Posts
61,652
Likes
50,407
Location
West Perth
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I will only focus on your last sentence as everything has been hashed too much already.
No, not like our time, very different economic and social times now. Australia is in a much better situation than late 40's and 50's.
That is exactly why settling in the new homeland now is so much harder and why we need to have the infrastructure to help them. You can't just let them in and force them into work camps until they are disease free and their qualification recognised and you can't just find them a job at Holdens and give them a car crate with no power or running water (or sewage) just like when our families arrived.

We need to have proper health care, social security, housing, education, language and skills training and everything else required to be successful in their new homeland. That is why a process needs to be in place and the process needs to think more broadly than "just let them in".
 

Juddism

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Posts
6,286
Likes
1,763
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
West Coast
What will be the outcome for the 10s of millions stuck in refugee camps throughout the world?

We can't save everybody. At some point we have to draw a line.

Obviously people who are on the wrong side of that line will be unhappy and would like the line being draw somewhere else.

But unless you support completely open borders someone is going to end up very unhappy.

answer the question...we're about to export misery to a country that cannot even look after it's own, and you're talking about compassionate options not working, how is this going to work?
 

Power Raid

TheBrownDog
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Posts
61,652
Likes
50,407
Location
West Perth
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
answer the question...we're about to export misery to a country that cannot even look after it's own, and you're talking about compassionate options not working, how is this going to work?
That comment has two issues:
1) Not being able to take in the 45m current refugees and every refugee in the future means there is a quota
2) What do you do with those not accepted within the quota?
 

Maggie5

Spec Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Posts
35,110
Likes
31,767
Location
Victoria
AFL Club
Collingwood
Moderator #5,819
answer the question...we're about to export misery to a country that cannot even look after it's own, and you're talking about compassionate options not working, how is this going to work?
I have almost given up communication with some posters who either deflect or write about what ifs, you end up in in their circle. Compassion does not form part of their DNA, it is the domain of 'lefties'.
 

mottrain

Premiership Player
Suspended
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Posts
3,826
Likes
1,667
AFL Club
Geelong
I have almost given up communication with some posters who either deflect or write about what ifs, you end up in in their circle. Compassion does not form part of their DNA, it is the domain of 'lefties'.
Irony. You still somehow haven't come up with an actually valid alternative yet.
 

Maggie5

Spec Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Posts
35,110
Likes
31,767
Location
Victoria
AFL Club
Collingwood
Moderator #5,821
Irony. You still somehow haven't come up with an actually valid alternative yet.
Lets see, deflecting, moronic, irony - your vocabulary is expanding.
Now how about:
Still waiting for even one link where you stated:
The problem still remains and there's tonnes of material supporting that it has not been fully dealt with yet so it seems you are just deflecting.
 

mottrain

Premiership Player
Suspended
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Posts
3,826
Likes
1,667
AFL Club
Geelong
Lets see, deflecting, moronic, irony - your vocabulary is expanding.
Now how about:
Still waiting for even one link where you stated:
The problem still remains and there's tonnes of material supporting that it has not been fully dealt with yet so it seems you are just deflecting.
Which I provided yesterday with the Cambodian proposal being pushed in order to rectify the detention centre problem.
 

Max zero

Premium Platinum
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Posts
12,196
Likes
7,241
Location
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
answer the question...we're about to export misery to a country that cannot even look after it's own, and you're talking about compassionate options not working, how is this going to work?
I did answer it.

Why does action that causes suffering upset you yet inaction that causes suffering does not? In both cases we could prevent it.

Or do you delude yourself that by taking in these 6000 that somehow that makes up for the millions we ignore?

We BOTH ignore the 10s of millions who are suffering. Yet you think these extra 6000 are the ones we should worry about.

If we bring in these 6000 it may well salve your conscience but will just end up encouraging more people to try the people smugglers. We know this BECAUSE RUDD TRIED THE EXACT SAME THING just a few years ago.

What will it take for you to realise your good intentions just cause more suffering? Why are you advocating for policies that a proven failures that cause more suffering? Did you support Rudd's policies? Are you feeling guilty?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom