Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

Status
Not open for further replies.

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Gough

Moderator
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Posts
40,714
Likes
66,499
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Thread starter Moderator #5,952
http://m.smh.com.au/federal-politic...-seekers-on-manus-island-20140903-10bwol.html
The most notorious compound at the Manus Island detention centre does not appear on the official map. The four main compounds, Delta, Foxtrot, Mike and Oscar, are all clearly marked. But not this one.

They call it Chauka, and it is made up of a series of converted shipping containers, each containing a single bed and no windows.

Its official name is the Managed Accommodation Area and it is where "misbehaving" asylum seekers are taken as part of the centre's Behavioural Modification Program.

Several weeks ago, two of the asylum seekers who were housed in Mike compound had never heard of Chauka. One of them was an eyewitness to the murder of Reza Barati during the night of violence that engulfed the centre in February.

All that changed when they voiced their opposition to changes to the detention centre policy covering phone and internet access, insisting the changes made it almost impossible to talk to family members in the Middle East.

In a graphic account subsequently posted on Facebook, the Iranian who witnessed Barati's murder said he had been taken to Chauka, fed bread and water for three days and made to sleep on the muddy ground.

"We were crying and asking what is our fault?" he wrote on the post. "They said: 'Because you always object to all of our rules'." During their ordeal, the men claim they were cable-tied to chairs and beaten about the body to avoid noticeable bruises. They also assert they were threatened with rape and murder if they did not retract their statements to police on what they saw at the centre on February 17.

Their case was taken up Benjamin Pynt, the director of human rights advocacy for Perth-based Humanitarian Research Partners, who forwarded their complaints to Australian Federal Police and the office of United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights. But they seemed to go nowhere.

It was the asylum seekers' word against those running the centre and their allegations of inhumane treatment were dismissed as baseless by Immigration Minister Scott Morrison, who said through a spokesperson that he been advised that "two men became abusive and aggressive and were moved in accordance with operational policy within the centre".

Now, Mr Pynt's calls for an independent examination of what took place have been strengthened with the leaking of dozens of pages of internal documents that describe the circumstances of the two men's transfer to Chauka.

They shed light on the sad, bleak and surreal world inside one of the world's most remote and controversial immigration detention centres.

It is a crowded parallel universe, where common sense ideas for making life more interesting and bearable, such as allowing detainees to cook for themselves or grow vegetables, are seen as potential dangers and forbidden.

Daily "sitreps" (situation reports) begin with an executive summary of major or critical incidents that took place in the preceding 24-hour period and a "mood indicator" indicating the tension level in the preceding weeks.

It looks like a bushfire alert graphic you might find on the weather pages, except that the temperature gauge relates to levels of anxiety, with anything under 10 denoting calm; between 11 and 12, "unsettled"; between 13 and 14, "agitated"; between 15 and 16, "aggressive" and anything between 17 and 20 "volatile".

A footnote explains that each mood indicator is calculated by "analysing inputs from baseline support monitor engage plans, baseline behavioural management plans, adverse incidents, missed meals and known intelligence reports".

A typical report notes the number of "transferees" who missed all meals in the 24-hour period in each compound, the number of assaults or acts of self-harm, and the number of people on high or moderate "Whiskey Watch".

Whiskey Watch? According to another footnote, "Whiskey Watch is monitoring of a transferee by BMT [the Behavioural management Team]." It explains that Whiskey Watch observations can be "ongoing" (minimum three-hourly checks in); "moderate" (minimum half-hourly checks) and "high" (requiring the detainee to be kept within arms' length or line of sight, depending on the circumstances).

While many are being observed for aggressive or "non-compliant" behaviour, others are being monitored because they have undertaken real or threatened acts of self-harm.

Then there are those among the all-male population who simply appear to have lost it: "Found in toilet naked and semi-conscious," was one description. "Noose discovered in room. Mood appears very low," says another.

The contents of the documents come as no surprise to Dr Peter Young, who until July was director of mental health for International Health and Medical Services (IHMS), the private contractor that provides medical care to detention centres on the Australian mainland, Christmas Island, Nauru and Manus Island.

"What we are talking about here is a total institution where there is no independent scrutiny of what goes on and we know that, within those types of institutions, abusive practices inevitably arise," Dr Young told Fairfax Media.

The incident that prompted the transfer of the two asylum seekers to Chauka is described in the report covering July 14 and 15, with the two men described as "community leaders" within the centre who "behaved in an anti-social manner" during a meeting to discuss new rules covering phone and internet access, prompting the decision to "remove both transferees to the Chauka compound".

Under the heading "Assessment and Outlook", the same report noted that the meeting was "certain" to have unsettled some of the transferees, with the word "certain" given emphasis by the use of bold type.

"The subsequent removal of two transferees to Chauka compound for anti-social behaviour is likely to have unsettled the friends of the transferees removed," it added.

After Fairfax Media reported the Facebook entry and that Pynt had lodged a complaint with the Australian Federal Police and the office of United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, another report, dated August 18, said the men's claims were unsupported and "deliberately misleading to create negative public opinion". But the initial explanation for their transfer to Chauka for "anti-social behaviour" was upgraded. Now it was stated that they had spent "several days" in Chauka for "inciting mass unrest". Having gone public with their claims of torture, the pair previously portrayed as "community leaders" were now described as having an "extensive history" of intimidation and threats and of making false claims about their treatment.

More than 1000 asylum are detained at the centre, but fewer than 80 have been given refugee status interim assessments (41 of them positive). Despite Tony Abbott predicting earlier this year that resettlement in PNG would begin in May, the Papua New Guinea government is yet to approve a refugee policy that might deliver on the formal agreement between the Australian and PNG government that is underpinned by Australian funding.

It was the lack of certainty about their future – indeed the certainty that they would be in detention for a long time with no prospect of resettlement in Australia or a third country – that was a catalyst for the unrest that preceded the violence in February.

In a numbing environment of low or no expectations of resettlement in a country that might offer some opportunity for what might be considered a normal life, those who remain resilient are the exceptions, and attempts to seek out some form of stimulation are viewed as unnatural, and even suspicious.
Sounds like Lord of the Flies over there.
 

Max zero

Premium Platinum
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Posts
12,196
Likes
7,245
Location
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
You're talking about cuts to the foreign aid budget due to the false "emergency"?
Not I'm talking about the changes to immigration policy that Rudd introduced that some people in this very thread strongly supported which lead to several hundred people dying on leaky boats.

You know the one's where Gough just washes his hands off and says it is there fault they died.
 

Max zero

Premium Platinum
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Posts
12,196
Likes
7,245
Location
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
If you can point out where I said that I would be most appreciative.
I didn't say you did (although I could go check...).

I said you washed your hands off it and blamed the people who died. Which you did in this very thread.

I do find it funny how apparently no one supported Rudds changes to Howard immigration policy...
 

Gough

Moderator
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Posts
40,714
Likes
66,499
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Thread starter Moderator #5,961
If you care to read back through this thread I have suggested numerous times that both the policies of both major parties with regards to the refugee problems have failed, both have resulted in death and serious trauma and that we should be looking for a third way. I have even suggested another solution, only to be howled down by the usual suspects who think that bastardisation in the name of detterance is the only way to solve this problem. If you want to accuse me of evasion and doublespeak that's fine, but you're wrong.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Maggie5

Spec Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Posts
35,163
Likes
31,849
Location
Victoria
AFL Club
Collingwood
Moderator #5,962
You can choose to read it that way if you wish, it doesn't particularly worry me.
What some people can't see is that there is a difference between those that die on the sea and those that have died or neglected on land, under the care of people employed by this government.
I don't think that anything will change their point of views as will continually bring up:
labor had this policy, hundreds died at sea, people smugglers, stopping the boats and of course my favourite, destroying their documentation. Surprisingly I am unable to find out how many of the 20,00 plus destroyed their documentation. All of them, 100, 10, half, who knows? Why? Because this open and transparent government won't tell us anything, yet they were happy to stand in front of billboards telling us number of boats arriving.

Doesn't surprise me to read that the witnesses to the death of Berati are being pressured. Wonder what reaction would have been if that incident had happened in Australia and no-one had been arrested for the murder? Out of sight, out of mind.
 

Max zero

Premium Platinum
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Posts
12,196
Likes
7,245
Location
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
If you care to read back through this thread I have suggested numerous times that both the policies of both major parties with regards to the refugee problems have failed, both have resulted in death and serious trauma and that we should be looking for a third way. I have even suggested another solution, only to be howled down by the usual suspects who think that bastardisation in the name of detterance is the only way to solve this problem. If you want to accuse me of evasion and doublespeak that's fine, but you're wrong.
If your 3rd way simply is taking the worst bits from Howard's and Rudd's policies then its kinda pointless isn't it?

Why do we need a 3rd way when Howard's way worked fine?
 
Last edited:

Max zero

Premium Platinum
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Posts
12,196
Likes
7,245
Location
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
What some people can't see is that there is a difference between those that die on the sea and those that have died or neglected on land, under the care of people employed by this government.
I don't think that anything will change their point of views as will continually bring up:
labor had this policy, hundreds died at sea, people smugglers, stopping the boats and of course my favourite, destroying their documentation. Surprisingly I am unable to find out how many of the 20,00 plus destroyed their documentation. All of them, 100, 10, half, who knows? Why? Because this open and transparent government won't tell us anything, yet they were happy to stand in front of billboards telling us number of boats arriving.

Doesn't surprise me to read that the witnesses to the death of Berati are being pressured. Wonder what reaction would have been if that incident had happened in Australia and no-one had been arrested for the murder? Out of sight, out of mind.
It's amazing how people can fly to Indonesia, pay 10s of thousands of dollors to people smugglers then lose their documentation EVERY SINGLE TIME.

They must be really forgetful.

I love how the "they died at sea its not our fault" comes from the very people who claim they care about stopping suffering. Apparently it only counts if they die on Australia territory not if they are only on route to Australian territory.

Talk about cold.

"Sorry you died short of the touchline you don't count."
 

Maggie5

Spec Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Posts
35,163
Likes
31,849
Location
Victoria
AFL Club
Collingwood
Moderator #5,965
It's amazing how people can fly to Indonesia, pay 10s of thousands of dollors to people smugglers then lose their documentation EVERY SINGLE TIME.

They must be really forgetful.

I love how the "they died at sea its not our fault" comes from the very people who claim they care about stopping suffering. Apparently it only counts if they die on Australia territory not if they are only on route to Australian territory.

Talk about cold.

"Sorry you died short of the touchline you don't count."
Predictable response, you could have saved your time. Heard it all before.
How many people lost their documentation, please? Still can't find out how many.
 

Max zero

Premium Platinum
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Posts
12,196
Likes
7,245
Location
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Predictable response, you could have saved your time. Heard it all before.
How many people lost their documentation, please? Still can't find out how many.
Well considering none of the boat people seem to have it when they get to Australia it seems its all of them.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/07/11...up-without-id/?wpmp_switcher=mobile&wpmp_tp=1

Crikey was evasive but:

The closest Crikey can find to Morrison’s “over 90%” claim is when Senator Cash asked a supplementary budget Estimates hearing question on October 15 last year about how many IMAs flew in to Indonesia but then arrived by boat to Australia passport-less (therefore assuming they must have destroyed it in between). This data comes entirely from entry interviews with asylum seekers, meaning it only represents those IMAs that willingly admit they flew in to Indonesia. In 2011-2012, 87% (1673 people) of those that flew in to Indonesia arrived in Australia undocumented. Between June 30, 2012 and October 31, 2012 (the most recent time period available), 78% (1551 people) were undocumented.

Regardless, those numbers show only a small percentage of the total IMAs. In 2011, Australia received 4565 asylum seekers by boat, while 17,202 asylum seekers arrived by boat in 2012 (the Department of Immigration has calendar year figures while the Senate has financial year figures, just to make the whole thing more confusing).

Therefore we judge Morrison’s “over 90%” claim as mostly rubbish.
Crickey claims its mostly rubbish because 17,202 arrived immigrants by plane. They seems rather strange reasoning. People who arrive by plane without documentation don't get in.

Of the boat people between 78-87% had no documentation.
 

Max zero

Premium Platinum
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Posts
12,196
Likes
7,245
Location
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Predictable response again. Nothing to do with the incidents, unrest, poor conditions and the fact that PNG are still to decide on a resettlement policy.
Maybe it is? But numbers have been falling in detention for a while (due to the lack of arrivals). Eventually they are going to shut down why not shut down the one that has been more controversial first?

More efficient to just run one facility.
 

mottrain

Premiership Player
Suspended
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Posts
3,826
Likes
1,667
AFL Club
Geelong
What some people can't see is that there is a difference between those that die on the sea and those that have died or neglected on land, under the care of people employed by this government.
I don't think that anything will change their point of views as will continually bring up:
labor had this policy, hundreds died at sea, people smugglers, stopping the boats and of course my favourite, destroying their documentation. Surprisingly I am unable to find out how many of the 20,00 plus destroyed their documentation. All of them, 100, 10, half, who knows? Why? Because this open and transparent government won't tell us anything, yet they were happy to stand in front of billboards telling us number of boats arriving.

Doesn't surprise me to read that the witnesses to the death of Berati are being pressured. Wonder what reaction would have been if that incident had happened in Australia and no-one had been arrested for the murder? Out of sight, out of mind.
It is deadset incorrect that you think this. The Labor government actively encouraged the risks to be taken and thus are therefore responsible for the issues at sea.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom