Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

Status
Not open for further replies.

louismaxwell

Team Captain
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Posts
599
Likes
167
AFL Club
Richmond
[http://www.treasury.gov.au/Publicat...-Issue-2/Report/Part-1-Reasons-for-resilience

Thankfully in the case of Australia well managed population growth can actually vastly improve productivity as the biggest problems in the countries economy, environment and politics since colonization have been associated with a lack of population, rather than excess.[/QUOTE]
You obviously don't live in Melbourne or Sydney, which are at saturation point with population growth, immigration needs to be stopped for 20 years just to let infrastructure catch up to the population we have now and why do the authorities want people living on top of each other its just crazy. Everything is a crush now , people can't get on trams and trains as they are too full it seems we are becoming so like Bombay that it is getting quite scary.
 
Last edited:

(Log in to remove this ad.)

smokingjacket

Premiership Player
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Posts
3,521
Likes
3,588
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Liverpool
You obviously don't live in Melbourne or Sydney, which are at saturation point with population growth, immigration needs to be stopped for 20 years just to let infrastructure catch up to the population we have now and why do the authorities want people living on top of each other its just crazy. Everything is a crush now , people can't get on trams and trains as they are too full it seems we are becoming so like Bombay that it is getting quite scary.
Louis you're a classic. I'm glad that Perth doesn't have a monopoly on provincial attitudes. Shouldn't you be proud of living in a global city? Look at how far Melbourne has come in the last twenty years. Coming from Perth I'm battle hardened/traumatised from speaking to people with these kind of attitudes on a regular basis. If there's one thing you could say about Australia it's that it's vast. I don't understand why people in this country view it as a right to have a 4*2 in the centre of a major capital city.

Saying that as I said, yes, public transport needs to be managed better but slowing population growth down isn't going to do a thing about that. It's just the approval and planning process of Australian governments.
 

Todman

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Posts
6,310
Likes
3,873
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Joint Agency Task Force monthly update: September 201401-10-2014 - This statement provides an update on Operation Sovereign Borders (OSB) activities related to the off-water reception and processing of illegal maritime arrivals.

The reporting period is from 1 September 2014 to 30 September 2014.

During this reporting period there were no illegal maritime arrivals transferred to Australian Immigration authorities.

Five illegal maritime arrivals were transferred to offshore processing centres—all to Nauru.

Twenty-six illegal maritime arrival transferees were voluntarily returned to their country of origin after electing to go home from an offshore processing centre—eleven Iranians, seven Iraqis, six Lebanese, one Jordanian and one Pakistani.

Twelve illegal maritime arrival detainees were voluntarily removed—four Indian, three Iranian, three Vietnamese, one Albanian, and one Iraqi.

As at 30 September 2014, there was a total of 1060 people on Manus Island and 1167 people in Nauru.

As at 30 September 2014, of the 84 Refugee Status Interim Determination assessments at Manus Island, 44 were positive and 40 were negative. Of the 329 Refugee Status Determination hand downs in Nauru, 250 were positive and 79 were negative.

On 5 September 2014, Mr Syed Shahid ALI and Mr Barkat WAHIDE were found guilty in the Sydney District Court of contravening s233A of the Migration Act 1958, for their part in organising a suspected illegal entry vessel, which arrived at Christmas Island on 6 May 2012 carrying 142 potential illegal immigrants. The men will be sentenced on 6 October 2014.

Sri Lankan authorities arrested two people in September 2014, for alleged involvement in people smuggling activity. The arrests show the ongoing commitment of Sri Lankan authorities to combat people smuggling.
 

Jiska

Moderator
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Posts
24,539
Likes
30,005
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Storm
Moderator #6,531
Even if you believe the claims that Sri Lanka is instituting state sponsored torture, India is next door. Encouraging unsafe voyages by boat over thousands of kilometres is crazy and ultimately deadly.
I take it you've never been to India? Law and order isn't exactly terrific there either, just well hidden by the media.
Jiska does a valiant job shilling for the people smuggler industry - especially spinning the lines that living in a country where law and and order is "not terrific" qualifies you to be a refugee under the UN convention and furthermore that previous travel in India is a pre requisite qualification to adjudicating whether or not that country is persecuting a genuine refugee.:thumbsu:
Cudos to you, GuruJane, for twisting my comments regarding destinations for refugees into sources for refugees. Perhaps you could stop putting words in my mouth to suit your arguments.
 

Jiska

Moderator
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Posts
24,539
Likes
30,005
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Storm
Moderator #6,532
No boats in September.
^^this..

How many people were tortured, raped or killed when we sent them back to whence they came?

Opps, don't have those stats available either. Morrison makes the The Freedom of Information Act look as relevant as the "Democracy" the Chinese Government has implemented in Hong Kong.
 

mottrain

Premiership Player
Suspended
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Posts
3,826
Likes
1,667
AFL Club
Geelong
^^this..

How many people were tortured, raped or killed when we sent them back to whence they came?

Opps, don't have those stats available either. Morrison makes the The Freedom of Information Act look as relevant as the "Democracy" the Chinese Government has implemented in Hong Kong.
The opposition want to seriously stifle freedoms relating to speech.
 

Todman

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Posts
6,310
Likes
3,873
AFL Club
Hawthorn
^^this..

How many people were tortured, raped or killed when we sent them back to whence they came?

Opps, don't have those stats available either. Morrison makes the The Freedom of Information Act look as relevant as the "Democracy" the Chinese Government has implemented in Hong Kong.

Jiska, you should resign as a moderator
 
Joined
May 13, 2014
Posts
2,587
Likes
2,335
AFL Club
St Kilda
Jiska, you should resign as a moderator
What a stupid thing to say.
He isn't paid for this. And he does a great job moderating the forums.
He is a human, so of course he will have his own opinion, but it's never interfered with his moderating duties.

Good luck to all but a few other posters having the ability to fairly moderate such a extreme board!
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

midorigreenwood

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Posts
8,274
Likes
2,231
Location
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Jiksa, you're moving the goalposts.

If you're worried about state sponsored rape and torture in Sri Lanka then you should have no problem with India with most Tamils being ethnically Hindu and have been sheltered by the state and federal authorities for decades.

If you lower the bar to just "law and order ain't great", by that standard almost anyone can qualify to be a refugee in your eyes.
 

Maggie5

Spec Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Posts
35,163
Likes
31,849
Location
Victoria
AFL Club
Collingwood
Moderator #6,539
Jiksa, you're moving the goalposts.

If you're worried about state sponsored rape and torture in Sri Lanka then you should have no problem with India with most Tamils being ethnically Hindu and have been sheltered by the state and federal authorities for decades.

If you lower the bar to just "law and order ain't great", by that standard almost anyone can qualify to be a refugee in your eyes.
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2014/s4098682.htm

Every year in India, thousands of women fall prey to human traffickers. The problem is worst in West Bengal, where women and girls are lured by traffickers with the promise of jobs and money and then sold as bonded labourers or into the sex trade.

I don't see a problem do you?:eek:

Perhaps some posters should read a bit more with an open mind.
 

Gough

Moderator
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Posts
40,714
Likes
66,499
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Thread starter Moderator #6,540
Cudos to you, GuruJane, for twisting my comments regarding destinations for refugees into sources for refugees. Perhaps you could stop putting words in my mouth to suit your arguments.
It's always worth remembering that of hearing the reintroduction of off shore processing by the ALP, Jane's one word post was "suffer", thereby pretty much rendering any other comments she makes on the subject redundant.
 

midorigreenwood

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Posts
8,274
Likes
2,231
Location
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
What does West Bengal have to do with Tamil Nadu, the state with millions of Indian and tens of thousands of sri lankan tamils?

Both states are like 2000km apart. (it'd be like me pointing to NT as why you shouldn't live in Melbourne)

Also I've posted previously in this thread about how tamil refugees in India run businesses and have access to social services like housing, education and healthcare.
 
Last edited:

The Coup

Premiership Player
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Posts
3,648
Likes
1,645
AFL Club
Melbourne
Jiksa, you're moving the goalposts.

If you're worried about state sponsored rape and torture in Sri Lanka then you should have no problem with India with most Tamils being ethnically Hindu and have been sheltered by the state and federal authorities for decades.

If you lower the bar to just "law and order ain't great", by that standard almost anyone can qualify to be a refugee in your eyes.
I don't think you understand that Tamils have no protection legally in India. Likewise any country that doesn't officially grant permanent residence an recognises UNHCR status.

It happens to a lot of people who arrive in Australia via boat.

After trying to run a school for girls the Taliban decides that isn't on and shoots the teacher in front of his family, then RPG's the school he was teaching the girls at. The teacher flees Pakistan to the UAE and begins working there illegally, sending money back to his family. One day UAE decide (due to not being signatories to the UN they can do this) that every refugee in UAE is about to get arrested and deported back to Pakistan/Afghanistan and refusal means severe beatings and deportation anyway.

He knows of a people smuggler through some connections he has made in UAE among a lot of other slave labour and refugees seeking temporary refuge. As a teacher he has enough money saved and takes the voyage to Australia.

Now was he safe in UAE? Sure for a while. But when some Arabian Abbott equivalent wants to drum up some votes he can simply beat and deport them at any time, and deportation is pretty much code for execution for a lot of these people.
 

Maggie5

Spec Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Posts
35,163
Likes
31,849
Location
Victoria
AFL Club
Collingwood
Moderator #6,543
What does West Bengal have to do with Tamil Nadu, the state with millions of Indian and tens of thousands of sri lankan tamils?

Both states are like 2000km apart. (it'd be like me pointing to NT as why you shouldn't live in Melbourne)

Also I've posted previously in this thread about how tamil refugees in India run businesses and have access to social services like housing, education and healthcare.
Only to point out that the so called safe havens referred by the Government like Sri Lanka and India are not so safe, especially for women.
 

midorigreenwood

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Posts
8,274
Likes
2,231
Location
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ea-of-false-hope/story-fn9hm1gu-1226397152558

Mr Chandrahasan, himself a Tamil refugee, said he despaired at the continued willingness of Sri Lankans to risk their lives on false promises of generous handouts and quick citizenship. "Three years after the war we're still going through this agony," he said. "The last boat (caught near tourist village of Kollam) was supposed to carry about 40 people and they put 151 inside and closed the hatch. Fortunately the navy came and so there were no deaths."
For a year, Mr Chandrahasan's group has been running a campaign through the 112 refugee camps across India's Tamil Nadu to highlight the dangers of the journey -- more than 3500km to Cocos Islands and more than 4000km to Christmas Island -- and the potential blowback on a community that lives on the good graces of its host nation.
Contrary to claims this week by Tamil activists in Australia, the nearly 68,000 Tamil refugees still in Indian camps live in subsidised housing, entitled to food and fuel rations, aged pensions and, from this year, university scholarships. Camp residents are free to work and children attend public and private schools outside the camp.
"We have been well taken care of in Tamil Nadu and it looks ugly for us to look a gift horse in the mouth and say ill of people in Tamil Nadu in order to justify asylum on the other side," Mr Chandrahasan said.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...ing-tales-of-woe/story-e6frg6zo-1225850659899

V. Suryanarayan, a retired senior professor affiliated with the University of Madras and a respected expert on the subject (as well as a Tamil), wrote in September 2008: "Geographical contiguity, ethnic affinities and easy availability of boats made Tamil Nadu a natural choice. The government provides free housing, free medical care and free education, in addition to financial doles and supply of essential commodities like rice, kerosene and sugar at subsidised rates. What is more, the government of Tamil Nadu has permitted the refugees to take up employment, a gesture not extended to Chakma refugees from Bangladesh. As far as refugees are concerned, it is not roses all the way, but . . . [they] do not feel any sense of insecurity in Tamil Nadu."
There are tens of million of displaced people in much much worse positions.
 

midorigreenwood

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Posts
8,274
Likes
2,231
Location
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
I don't think you understand that Tamils have no protection legally in India. Likewise any country that doesn't officially grant permanent residence an recognises UNHCR status.
So you have no problem with Cambodia? a signatory of the refugee convention......or is it more complicated than simply signing a document?
 

The Coup

Premiership Player
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Posts
3,648
Likes
1,645
AFL Club
Melbourne
So you have no problem with Cambodia? a signatory of the refugee convention......or is it more complicated than simply signing a document?
Cambodia can provide legal recognition in theory only. they have a significant recent history of granting asylum only to arbitrarily deport refugees to their country of origin. Most recent example was the Uighur refugees they deported to China after initially providing asylum.

So no, ion practicality Cambodia can't provide sufficient protection.
 

The Coup

Premiership Player
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Posts
3,648
Likes
1,645
AFL Club
Melbourne

Jiska

Moderator
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Posts
24,539
Likes
30,005
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Storm
Moderator #6,549
The opposition want to seriously stifle freedoms relating to speech.
Random, throw away line, with nothing to explain what you're talking about.

Seems the Government are doing a great job of censoring Government employees of speaking out. Even the front bench Ministers won't give us facts and figures. The less we know the better, says Big Brother. Morrison may as well put forward a bill to scrap the Freedom of Information Act.
 

Jiska

Moderator
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Posts
24,539
Likes
30,005
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Storm
Moderator #6,550
Jiksa, you're moving the goalposts.

If you're worried about state sponsored rape and torture in Sri Lanka then you should have no problem with India with most Tamils being ethnically Hindu and have been sheltered by the state and federal authorities for decades.

If you lower the bar to just "law and order ain't great", by that standard almost anyone can qualify to be a refugee in your eyes.
No, I'm not shifting the goal posts at all. I don't think you're comprehending what I'm saying.

The comment was made that if people are fleeing Sri Lanka, they should flee to India and seek asylum there. I am arguing that they would be no better off in India than in Sri Lanka.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom