Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

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midorigreenwood

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Why are the vast majority of these so called economic migrants found to be refugees? It's all very well to dismiss them as such, but it's not very factual.
As has been argued many times, the system was easily gamed because of the focus of giving the benefit of the doubt. The authorities basically had to prove that someone wasn't a refugee which is difficult with regards to boat people.

That's why labor introduced enhanced screening which the libs obviously happily adopted and meant the majority of boat people from places like sri Lanka and iran are screened out before they even had the chance to make their case to the courts.

The difference is labor did it at land and the libs does it on ships.
 
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Gough

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Benefit of the doubt could also be read as beyond all doubt as well, one of the cornerstones of our legal system, that is tried, true, and fair. I'm very uncomfortable with the government subverting this, just because it's not getting the answers it wants.
 

GuruJane

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Maggie - the best way to get to Australia and make it your home is to come here as an authorised migrant like you and your family did or via a government issued 457 working visa (the ones you want to abolish).

Visa overstayers have been around since time immemorial in all countries, all of them. Most of them end up moving on or going home.
But if you feel xenophobic about them like you do with 457s you can take comfort that DIAC has more resources available to track long term overstayers now that the government has put a stop to tens of thousands of people smuggler citizenship shoppers arriving here every year to rook the system.

Is that a good thing?
 
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GuruJane

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As has been argued many times, the system was easily gamed because of the focus of giving the benefit of the doubt. The authorities basically had to prove that someone wasn't a refugee which is difficult with regards to boat people.

That's why labor introduced enhanced screening which the libs obviously happily adopted which meant the majority of boat people from places like sri Lanka and iran are screened out before they even had the chance to make their case to the courts.

The difference is labor did it at land and the libs does it on ships.
Enhanced screening had been done in UK for years - we pinched it from them.
 

Gough

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Seeing as it's argued by some that Britain is overrun with immigrants, I'm not sure that pinching their protocols makes a lot of sense.
 

GuruJane

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Its a pointless semantically argument but in computer science terms its a priority queue

They is contrasted from the typical concept of a queue....first in first out which Gough is holding on to.

Because of a limitation of resources, in a priority queue just because you've been waiting the longest doesn't mean you get served first

There are a set of criteria which determines whether you are waiting in camps for a few years or twenty years or longer with regards to the UN resettlement program.

This is usually a balance between whom the UN deems to be in need and the cost to to the host country.

For example if you're old you're less likely to meet the criteria than young people.

Family groups have a better chance than single males.

If you're disabled... lol good luck.
.
There you go, Gough. That's the queue.

btw was Paris Aristotle's area of expertise.
 

GuruJane

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Maggie you don't realize it but you're actually making a case for offshore processing.

In the UK, asylum seekers used to be processed in the community and thousands essentially became illegal immigrants and hid from the authorities once they failed the process...

no different to visa overstayers.

Onshore processing makes it easier for economic migrants to obfuscate the system.
Maggie just doesn't understand that visa overstayers in Australia are not asylum seekers.
 

Maggie5

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Maggie - the best way to get to Australia and make it your home is to come here as an authorised migrant like you and your family did or via a government issued 457 working visa (the ones you want to abolish).

Visa overstayers have been around since time immemorial in all countries, all of them. Most of them end up moving on or going home.
But if you feel xenophobic about them like you do with 457s you can take comfort that DIAC has more resources available to track long term overstayers now that the government has put a stop to tens of thousands of people smuggler citizenship shoppers arriving here every year to rook the system.

Is that such a good thing?
Have never said I want 457 abolished, merely that more stringent rules be implemented and that they are enforced.

Not talking about my family, not relevant despite you trying to bring it up all the time.

So if it has been going on forever, lets forget it and concentrate on people smugglers, economic migrants, this appears to be the only topic that you want discussed. Does this satisfy your racist views?

Sorry, but if we are looking at organised migration and numbers, I would start with those that are staying here illegally and not separate them from those that are not genuine refugees. Because unlike you I don't believe that all of those that have sought to make the hazardous trip are not genuine and I unlike you am prepared to concede that some may be country shoppers.

By the way you haven't commented on the link I posted.

Are there any children still in detention?

There has to be a better way to deal with this problem, (neither major party has got it right so far). I am not sure what the answer is but I don't think it is the one that is in practice now.
 

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midorigreenwood

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http://m.theaustralian.com.au/natio...tention-loophole/story-fn9hm1gu-1227412755081

A special meeting of the Labor caucus has been called to consider an urgent government request to make changes to vital legislation underpinning the regional processing arrangements for asylum seekers.
Tony Abbott called Bill Shorten earlier today amid fears that Labor’s 2012 legislation could be at risk following a High Court case on the contentious school chaplaincy scheme brought by Ron Williams.

That case found there had to be a specific statutory authority and legislation underpinning the ability of the federal government to spend money.

The government is now seeking to urgently fix this loophole in the current legislation to ensure money spent on regional processing of asylum seekers in Nauru or Manus Island is not vulnerable to a new legal challenge.
 

GuruJane

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Mags, referenced your family to try and help you understand what the "best way" of coming to Australia and making it your home is, since you apparently believe the best way is paying mucho $s to people smugglers, jetting around the world to Indonesia, hopping on a boat to Australia, destroying your passport and ID on the way then elbowing out impoverished UN refugees in camps waiting and hoping for a some country to take them in. Legally. Properly. Following due process, Maggie, like your family did.
I call the people smuggler boat arrivals illegal because they DO arrive illegally.
Unlike visa overstayers who do arrive legally and don't lie about applying for asylum so they can get citizenship.
And unlike the UN camp refugees now coming legally to Australia under the humanitarian program again thanks to the coalition and its successful policy shutting down the people smuggler industry.
 
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Power Raid

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You wanted refugees arriving by boat to suffer, this government has granted your wish. You should be happy, so shut the f*** up, rejoice in their misery.
I'm sure there are some who take that stance but is it possible to be against the people smuggling trade and not be an advocate of suffering?

Is it possible to simply want a sustainable immigration and resettlement policy for non-refugees and refugees alike?
 

Maggie5

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Mags, referenced your family to try and help you understand what the "best way" of coming to Australia and making it your home is, since you apparently believe the best way is paying mucho $s to people smugglers, jetting around the world to Indonesia, hopping on a boat to Australia, destroying your passport and ID on the way then elbowing out impoverished UN refugees in camps waiing and hoping for a some country to take them in.
I call them illegal arrivals because they DO arrive illegally.
Unlike visa overstayers who do arrive legally and don't lie about applying for asylum so they can get citizenship.
Shouldn't be that hard to understand.
Would you shut up about the way we got here! Sounds so bloody patronizing.
Don't lie but stay here illegally, why are you splitting hairs?
 

GuruJane

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Again. There is no comparison to be made between the two cohorts of illegal boat arrivals claiming asylum so they can get citizenship and legally arrived visa over stayers who don't.
Again. The best way of coming to Australia and making it your home is to come as a legal migrant so many did starting post World War 11.
Again. The worst way to come is as cashed up people-smuggled illegal boat arrivals taking the places previously reserved for genuine refugees living in camps similar to those after WW11.
Fortunately the last is no longer the case since the coalition put a stop to the people smuggler trade. Genuine refugees are now filling the humanitarian quota.
 
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romeohwho

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Again. There is no comparison to be made between the two cohorts of illegal boat arrivals claiming asylum so they can get citizenship and legally arrived visa over stayers who don't.
Again. The best way of coming to Australia and making it your home is to come as a legal migrant so many did starting post World War 11.
Again. The worst way to come is as cashed up people-smuggled illegal boat arrivals taking the places previously reserved for genuine refugees living in camps similar to those after WW11.
Fortunately the last is no longer the case since the coalition put a stop to the people smuggler trade. Genuine refugees are now filling the humanitarian quota.
Why do you assume that 'cashed up' people are not genuine refugees?
 

medusala

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Why do you assume that 'cashed up' people are not genuine refugees?
If you are in fear of you and your family's life would you leave them, fly to indo board a boat then apply to get them in? Odd behaviour one would think

How many refugees in UN camps have a lazy $30k on them?


Why are the vast majority of these so called economic migrants found to be refugees? It's all very well to dismiss them as such, but it's not very factual.
We have been over that Gough, because the system was rigged in their favour. The approval % jumped massively under the last govt as they imported lots of natural ALP voters. Pretty disgusting stuff, we should all feel ashamed at that. Any decent Australian would.
 
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romeohwho

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If you are in fear of you and your family's life would you leave them, fly to indo board a boat then apply to get them in? Odd behaviour one would think

How many refugees in UN camps have a lazy $30k on them?



We have been over that Gough, because the system was rigged in their favour. The approval % jumped massively under the last govt as they imported lots of natural ALP voters. Pretty disgusting stuff, we should all feel ashamed at that. Any decent Australian would.
Educated people(who are more 'cashed up') are more likely to be in genuine danger of an intolerant authority because they are the ones most likely to question that regime.
Re your point re rigging etc. Suggest if you were a 'decent Australian', like Tone, you'd be spending your time hanging 10 flags outside your front door instead of posting on BF.;)
 

medusala

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Educated people(who are more 'cashed up') are more likely to be in genuine danger of an intolerant authority because they are the ones most likely to question that regime.
That may have been the case in WWII but I hardly think that relates to the current spate of boat people. Flip your argument in reverse, the desperately poor in UN camps aren't then refugees?

As for flags, I am sure Tone would approve.

 

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Why do you assume that 'cashed up' people are not genuine refugees?
Personally I don't care if people are rich poor, genuine or not genuine refugees. I can understand why they would want to start a new life, for themselves and the following generations, in Australia.

I would welcome them all but I appreciate we have to run a process to assist to give our immigrants, and our existing population, the best chance of success here. This requires planning, the provision of services and infrastructure around housing, education, health, transport, employment, social services and support etc

These all have constraints which means you compromise the planning, services, infrastructure, the quality of life for all and the chances of success of resettlement..............or you have a immigration quota and a proper process. This results in queues and a situation where demand exceeds supply.

Either way you have issues but do you do what we are currently doing; by having a good system here and accept we can't fix the world's problems (but assist by resettling the second most in the world)? or do you create problems here and still not fix the world's problems?
 

GuruJane

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I'm sure there are some who take that stance but is it possible to be against the people smuggling trade and not be an advocate of suffering?
In the post Gough refers to I was directing my comment "Suffer" to the poster I was replying to - LouisCK - not to asylum seekers being sent to Nauru and Manus. This was very clear at the time because nobody complained about it then.
Gough Greencreep, Devotee of the Prime Minister's Moving Penis knows this perfectly well, PR but greencreep lies are just second nature by now.
 
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