Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

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madmug

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Disrespecting the Indonesians? For sending vessels from Indonesia and crewed by Indonesians back to Indonesia?
By not working to sort the real problem out with Indonesia.

Indonesia is a growing economy & we should have the brains to work with them as friends, not as arrogant pigs. Its not a good way to leave our future generations, with a potential enemy, not a respected neighbour.

Aborts divisive methods might impress red necks, but it has long term pain as a consequence.
 

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Xsess

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Why cant you understand that stopping people arriving in Oz stops others from attempting the trip so is therefore in Indonesia's interests? Not that Indonesia is any friend of Australia's lol. Also why cant you see that stopping people entering Australia means fewer people in detention, lower costs, less drownings and fewer kids abused? Our humanitarian intake remains extremely generous its just that we choose those who follow due process so that we can be sure of their bona fides.
 

romeohwho

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Why cant you understand that stopping people arriving in Oz stops others from attempting the trip so is therefore in Indonesia's interests? Not that Indonesia is any friend of Australia's lol. Also why cant you see that stopping people entering Australia means fewer people in detention, lower costs, less drownings and fewer kids abused? Our humanitarian intake remains extremely generous its just that we choose those who follow due process so that we can be sure of their bona fides.
Do you think this situation is going to go away? It isn't-this will grow into an even greater global issue and unless countries sit down and cooperate on solutions, we will all struggle. But the current set up means, that in this region, those less able, are left to do the most struggling. We can find better arrangements.
 

GuruJane

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Yes I did give my preferences to Rudd in 2007. Sadly, as is often the case we had a poor choice, between somebody who spoke a good game but had no courage to follow on his rhetoric and a past-it and stale PM who did very little positive in his lengthy time in office.

For what it's worth I don't see how I own any responsibility for the current offshore processing arrangements. Labor brought them in under Rudd the second time in complete contrast to everything they'd argued for a long time and I didn't preference either major parties (luckily I'm in a seat where I don't have to) in the last federal election.

At least I'm not pretending everything is good in the world as long as people aren't dying on our doorstep. I can recognise that refugees are a global issue that requires a global solution. I'd be deeply uncomfortable with treating people in such a disgracefully degrading way if it actually did solve the real issue at hand. In contrast we're doing such things while reducing aid spending, increasing our awful foreign policies that cause displacement and reducing the number of refugees we accept. So we're increasing the refugee problem around the world that leads to scenes like this:

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/r...aves-in-thailand/story-fnh81fz8-1227409783220



At the same time we're locking up desperate people in inhumane conditions. But hey at least the refugees aren't dying on our doorstep...
So who did you preference in 2010 Smarts?
Vote for a government promising detention centre in East Timor didja?

And who didja preference in 2013, three years later?
The candidate promising his Labor Party and electorate that his government that boat arrivals would never ever get protection visas or citizenship in Australia? Voted for that didja?

Where are you positioned for next election 2016,Smartas?
 

CM86

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So who did you preference in 2010 Smarts?
Vote for a government promising detention centre in East Timor didja?

And who didja preference in 2013, three years later?
The candidate promising his Labor Party and electorate that his government that boat arrivals would never ever get protection visas or citizenship in Australia? Voted for that didja?

Where are you positioned for next election 2016,Smartas?
Guru... shut the **** up.

You do this every time something big is being talked about, and you need a major deflection. You start asking who they preferenced, and unless they say that voted for the coalition you link it back to the Greens and ALP, and pretend to take the moral high ground.

It's boring and meaningless.
Why don't you talk about what's actually happening to humans, and forget the politics for a minute?
Is that even possible for you?
 

GuruJane

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Guru... shut the **** up.

You do this every time something big is being talked about, and you need a major deflection. You start asking who they preferenced, and unless they say that voted for the coalition you link it back to the Greens and ALP, and pretend to take the moral high ground.

It's boring and meaningless.
Why don't you talk about what's actually happening to humans, and forget the politics for a minute?
Is that even possible for you?
CM 86???? Another one who preferenced Rudd in 2007?
Gillard in 2010?
Rudd in 2013?

If so isn't it time, CM86, to man up with Footy Smarts and Madmug and accept share of responsibility for the terrible catastrophe that ensued after 2008 in terms of deaths at sea, detention, reintro of offshore centres followed by draconian measures and etc just like in Howard days?

Doncha think a modicum of remorse is called for 86? Or do you want that we all go back to it?
 

CM86

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CM 86???? Another one who preferenced Rudd in 2007?
Gillard in 2010?
Rudd in 2013?

If so isn't it time, CM86, to man up with Footy Smarts and Madmug and accept share of responsibility for the terrible catastrophe that ensued after 2008 in terms of deaths at sea, detention, reintro of offshore centres followed by draconian measures and etc just like in Howard days?

Doncha think a modicum of remorse is called for 86? Or do you want that we all go back to it?
Nope. I live on the moon, and have never voted.

You done now? Want to actually discuss the topic? Or just keep deflecting?
 

midorigreenwood

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Richard Marles comes out of the closet as a boat turner.

http://m.heraldsun.com.au/news/vict...lum-seeker-boats/story-fnpp4dl6-1227452939807

I believe that provided it can be done safely, a future Labor Government must have the option to undertake turn-backs. At all times, Australia will meet its international obligations.

That is the position Labor held in the past with then leader Kevin Rudd signalling his intent to engage in turn-backs before the 2007 election.

Today people smugglers in Jakarta are largely out of business. We know that.

Labor will not risk putting those people smugglers back into operation with the inevitable consequence that hundreds of men, women and children will face certain death in the Java Sea.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...-reported-policy-backflip#l0s6vcJGA86qcQQh.99

Federal Labor has reportedly backflipped on its asylum policy and are set to go to the next election with a “turn back the boats” policy.

The Herald Sun has reported Opposition Leader Bill Shorten will go to the next election with a tough new stance on asylum seekers that effectively mirrors the Abbott government’s policy.

Opposition Immigration spokesman Richard Marles is expected to outline the new policy on asylum seeker boats in an upcoming column in the newspaper.
 

Gough

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It's the policy mate, not the party prosecuting it. There are better ways to deal with the problem than this, there just has to be.
 

Lebbo73

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CM 86???? Another one who preferenced Rudd in 2007?
Gillard in 2010?
Rudd in 2013?

If so isn't it time, CM86, to man up with Footy Smarts and Madmug and accept share of responsibility for the terrible catastrophe that ensued after 2008 in terms of deaths at sea, detention, reintro of offshore centres followed by draconian measures and etc just like in Howard days?

Doncha think a modicum of remorse is called for 86? Or do you want that we all go back to it?
Indirectly they are murderers GJ/
 

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Gough

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http://www.theguardian.com/australi...-case-against-the-detention-of-asylum-seekers
While the leaked documents may not force the government to change course immediately, at least the Australian electorate cannot put its head in the sand and pretend it has absolutely no idea what is going on
I cannot believe that there are people still prepared to defend this policy, it's not saving lives, it's not stopping the boats, it's causing human misery, costing a fortune, both now, and when the law suits start, and most of all it's not solving any problems. That the ALP are prepared to countenance turn back just shows that they are no different to the animals running the place at the moment.
 

Maggie5

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Race to the bottom of the ocean to see which party is cruelest. Labor supporting turn back policy and Dutton comes on saying Shorten has already softened his stance. Hey, Bill we can do it more cruelly than you, we are the best at it.
 

Maggie5

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http://www.theguardian.com/australi...-case-against-the-detention-of-asylum-seekers

I cannot believe that there are people still prepared to defend this policy, it's not saving lives, it's not stopping the boats, it's causing human misery, costing a fortune, both now, and when the law suits start, and most of all it's not solving any problems. That the ALP are prepared to countenance turn back just shows that they are no different to the animals running the place at the moment.
Typical of this corrupt government attack Triggs, ignore their own Moss report then this.
Who will have the guts to ask for a RC into this?
 

Power Raid

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Well done Shorten! that was very honourable.

Hopefully both parties can work together and deal with the "push" issue on people smuggling sensibly. They should also work together and continue our good work of resettling the second largest number of refugees globally.

We should not only do more but we should do it better and make sure the misinformed electorate understands Australia's great contribution. To think we are doing the second most on the planet but some people think its a race to the bottom suggests the government doesn't communicate the positives well enough.

Perhaps we should not only put it in writing that we resettle the second most on the planet but also use a crayon picture set to ensure our simpler folk understand it. Gifs and Jpegs can be used for the tech savvy too:

 

madmug

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Why cant you understand that stopping people arriving in Oz stops others from attempting the trip so is therefore in Indonesia's interests? Not that Indonesia is any friend of Australia's lol. Also why cant you see that stopping people entering Australia means fewer people in detention, lower costs, less drownings and fewer kids abused? Our humanitarian intake remains extremely generous its just that we choose those who follow due process so that we can be sure of their bona fides.
I can see that paying people smugglers just creates a profitable loop.

I can see that showing Indonesia no respect will do us no good in the future.

Work that into a right wing diatribe for yourself.
 

midorigreenwood

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Well done Shorten! that was very honourable.
Its funny how element within the party are now in up row over the policy u turn.

They had their way in 2007 and spent years in denial blaming push factors rather than their own bad decisions until hundreds died unnecessarily.

thank goodness some are willing to face up to reality and accept their mistakes.
 

Power Raid

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Why cant you understand that stopping people arriving in Oz stops others from attempting the trip so is therefore in Indonesia's interests? Not that Indonesia is any friend of Australia's lol. Also why cant you see that stopping people entering Australia means fewer people in detention, lower costs, less drownings and fewer kids abused? Our humanitarian intake remains extremely generous its just that we choose those who follow due process so that we can be sure of their bona fides.
It might be in Indonesia's interests to stop the boats too but is it in the interest of certain power brokers in Indonesia to stop the boats?

FTR Indonesia and Australia co-operated on this issue and managed to outsmart many. This co-operation probably helped deliver a very important electorate result in Indo and avoided a very tumultuous political period for both nations.

This is the bit many people like madmug, can't see (which is not unreasonable as it is not widely published).


Madmug, can I suggest you do a little research and find out the most powerful person in Indo in regards to ports and shipping. Also do a little research on the gang of nine, also known as dragon of nine. You might find some of the names interesting especially when you link it back to Indo military and Indo politics. (this too is not widely published and those journalists that do end up in jail)
 

Power Raid

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Its funny how element within the party are now in up row over the policy u turn.

They had their way in 2007 and spent years in denial blaming push factors rather than their own bad decisions until hundreds died unnecessarily.

thank goodness some are willing to face up to reality and accept their mistakes.
getting something wrong in good faith is acceptable. I don't have an issue with that, as failure is sometimes a function of trying.

what was disgraceful was the political motivation of being elected or re-elected at any cost and the associated misleading and deceptive conduct of covering up the failed policy.


we have a problem in Australian politics and culture when our politicians engage in this behaviour and worse our electorate defends it. This holds true for both sides of politics.
 

CM86

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I assume CM86 is code for some trial drug that leaves people angry and confused?
You would, because you're a psychopath, and don't understand that people have emotions without needing drugs.



As for the turn backs, fine keep doing it, as long as we can find a safe way, and it actually decreases the number of boats trying to arrive.

But there is no reason at all, and no defense, for how they are being treated.

And no, for legitimate asylum seekers, they can't leave any time... they are our prisoners. We have their lives in our hands, and our hands are filthy.
 

Maggie5

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Its funny how element within the party are now in up row over the policy u turn.

They had their way in 2007 and spent years in denial blaming push factors rather than their own bad decisions until hundreds died unnecessarily.

thank goodness some are willing to face up to reality and accept their mistakes.
Yeah, I can see that the ones that survived are living it up in Camp Nauru and PNG, especially the children.
Read the Triggs and Moss reports lately?
 

Maggie5

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You would, because you're a psychopath, and don't understand that people have emotions without needing drugs.



As for the turn backs, fine keep doing it, as long as we can find a safe way, and it actually decreases the number of boats trying to arrive.

But there is no reason at all, and no defense, for how they are being treated.

And no, for legitimate asylum seekers, they can't leave any time... they are our prisoners. We have their lives in our hands, and our hands are filthy.
Alternatively you can turn your last sentence around ala Guru Jane and others and say that:
"the supporters of this policy have their lives in their hands, and their hands are filthy".
 

GuruJane

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Its funny how element within the party are now in up row over the policy u turn.

They had their way in 2007 and spent years in denial blaming push factors rather than their own bad decisions until hundreds died unnecessarily.

thank goodness some are willing to face up to reality and accept their mistakes.
Sorry to have to be misery guts raining on the parade of optimism but:

1. The only reality Labor has faced up to is the necessity of coming up with some kind of fudge on boat turn backs to get them past the next election.
2. "Accepting their mistakes" is a total bullshit feint to help their spin. Nothing more.

3. Labor continues to reveal the cognitive stupidity it has on this issue which betrays it every time.

On this occasion stupido Marles and other Labor stupidos are saying Labor will insist on "transparency" in reporting turnback operations.
They still have no idea that it is the media clampdown on turnback operations that are crucial to its success.

When Chris Bowen was under pressure as Minister for Immigration his voice used to start squeaking at press conferences.
With Marles, he starts to stutter. And he's not even the minister only the shadow.
 
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