Stopping the Tigers 2020

VicBased

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May 3, 2019
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It’s a silly post. We have youth that are incredibly hungry and talented who are ready to come in should any senior player get complacent. Our kids won the VFL flag and will be hungry to land an AFL one. The difference between us and the rest of our competitors is that we are stacked with talent all the way down to about our 35th player. Most other teams drop off significantly at about 25. We have hungry kids who will keep our seniors on our toes throughout the whole year. The last thing that we will lose is our hunger.

Our list is also in better shape now than what it was in 2017 and 2018. It’s scary to think that guys like Ross, Stack, Collier-Dawkins, Balta, Coleman-Jones, Higgins, Naish, etc. are all slowly emerging and will provide our team with plenty of upside.

We are perfectly positioned for sustained success.
Really, you believe that?
 

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Mister M

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Thread is about wc 2020 prospects which are better than at least 15 teams
No it’s not... this thread is about ‘Stopping the Tigers 2020’

If you want to discuss WCE Prospects for 2020– there’s another thread for that.

 

CotchNCo

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The energy and effort it takes to play Richmonds brand of football will overtake them this year. They will run out of legs as they are older and flushed with a G.F win. Back to the pack this year, even with their easy fixture, probably 5-6th at the end of the season.
God your so yesterday. Richmond will not figure in any finals this year.
Bottom four next?

Stop the trolling and move on.
 
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Jez1974

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Oct 8, 2019
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No it’s not... this thread is about ‘Stopping the Tigers 2020’

If you want to discuss WCE Prospects for 2020– there’s another thread for that.

West Coast are as good as any to stop the Tiges!!
 

Jez1974

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Kennedy is on his last legs. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

Darling is a good forward a level below the Lynch, Cameron ect.

Cripps is avg 40 goals a year. He has in fact never kicked 40 goals in a season which includes 2018 when he played 25 games. Don't let facts get in the way of a good story though.

Allen - You should have talked him up more as he can play.



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Time will tell!
 

Jez1974

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I didn’t even include Edwards who plays forward often. It would also be unfair to include Martin. We have WCE covered in forward, midfield, defence and depth. Ruck is the only area where they have us. I can’t see how they contend with us in 2020.
Midfield and ruck. Wce well covered thanks
 

Yippy Yi Yeo

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Hurn is at a dangerous age. Rarely do players slow down and then bounce back again. His good games will become more sporadic and his bad games will become more extreme. Once your body gives way, your mind follows shortly after. If his pace drops just five percent he will be a deer in the headlights.

I’m not sure why you think I want Kennedy to deteriorate? He’s my favourite non-Richmond player. Having said that, if he kicks fifty goals this year I’ll eat my shit.

Jarrod Cameron is just like Bobby Hill. Very talented but very raw. These guys will show moments of brilliance but can’t yet be relied upon. 11 goals was a solid return this season but eight of those goals came from two games. He was a non factor in most games.

I never said Allen wasn’t a talent, I just don’t think twenty goals is massive output for any forward. He will be a very good player, but he wouldn’t worry many at this point in time.

Cripps averaging 32 goals a year for the past five years is a bit different to saying Cripps averages forty goals a year over his career.

I think if you compare your forwards to ours, it’s pretty one-sided:

Lynch > Darling
Riewoldt > Kennedy
Lambert > Cripps
Castagna > Ryan
Rioli > Cameron
Bolton > Petrucelli
Just because his form wasn't as good after 2 injuries doesn't mean that he's slowed down or that his body has given way, he was still all australian, had career high averages in disposals and 1%ers and his 2nd highest average marks for his career. The fact is he's still one of the better defenders in the competition and still has a lethal kick, anything suggesting otherwise is just wishful thinking until proven otherwise.

I can't understand why if Kennedy was your favourite non-richmond player you'd be so certain of his impending drop off, he managed to kick 49 goals after 3 years of no pre seasons and missing games, he's had a full pre season so far this year yet you're willing to eat your own shit if he kicks virtually the same amount of goals he managed last year despite his body being in far better shape? Be my guest, I'll hold you to that and hope to see a video of the deed.

Cameron is definitely raw, but all it takes is a naturally improved tank due to it being his 2nd season, more opportunity and responsibility around the forward line which he'll have and a little more consistency and he can cover most of Rioli's influence.

20 goals is a fine contribution for someone playing their first full season, particularly when half the games were spent in the back line or pinch hitting in the ruck, especially when you're playing under 2 of the best key forwards in the competition.

Lynch and Darling averaged virtually the same in all key stats last season, Kennedy has averaged more goals than Riewoldt every year since 2013 and that includes last season, the one which you said Kennedy fell off a cliff, yet he still averaged 0.4 more goals than Riewoldt per game. Not sure how you figured Lambert is the better forward than Cripps when he averages far less goals and goal assists, same deal for Ryan and Castagna really as well. You're comparing a 4th year player to a 1st year player in Rioli v Cameron, but it wouldn't take much improvement on Cameron's 2019 to be at a similar level to Rioli this season. Allen will be ahead of Petruccelle as far as being a forward goes in 2020 and I don't think you'd find many people who would take Bolton ahead of Allen. Your assessment of the 2 forward lines is completely deluded.
 

Jez1974

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Oct 8, 2019
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Just because his form wasn't as good after 2 injuries doesn't mean that he's slowed down or that his body has given way, he was still all australian, had career high averages in disposals and 1%ers and his 2nd highest average marks for his career. The fact is he's still one of the better defenders in the competition and still has a lethal kick, anything suggesting otherwise is just wishful thinking until proven otherwise.

I can't understand why if Kennedy was your favourite non-richmond player you'd be so certain of his impending drop off, he managed to kick 49 goals after 3 years of no pre seasons and missing games, he's had a full pre season so far this year yet you're willing to eat your own shit if he kicks virtually the same amount of goals he managed last year despite his body being in far better shape? Be my guest, I'll hold you to that and hope to see a video of the deed.

Cameron is definitely raw, but all it takes is a naturally improved tank due to it being his 2nd season, more opportunity and responsibility around the forward line which he'll have and a little more consistency and he can cover most of Rioli's influence.

20 goals is a fine contribution for someone playing their first full season, particularly when half the games were spent in the back line or pinch hitting in the ruck, especially when you're playing under 2 of the best key forwards in the competition.

Lynch and Darling averaged virtually the same in all key stats last season, Kennedy has averaged more goals than Riewoldt every year since 2013 and that includes last season, the one which you said Kennedy fell off a cliff, yet he still averaged 0.4 more goals than Riewoldt per game. Not sure how you figured Lambert is the better forward than Cripps when he averages far less goals and goal assists, same deal for Ryan and Castagna really as well. You're comparing a 4th year player to a 1st year player in Rioli v Cameron, but it wouldn't take much improvement on Cameron's 2019 to be at a similar level to Rioli this season. Allen will be ahead of Petruccelle as far as being a forward goes in 2020 and I don't think you'd find many people who would take Bolton ahead of Allen. Your assessment of the 2 forward lines is completely deluded.
And also the assessment of the backline and midfield!!!@@@???
 

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Tenny

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Just because his form wasn't as good after 2 injuries doesn't mean that he's slowed down or that his body has given way, he was still all australian, had career high averages in disposals and 1%ers and his 2nd highest average marks for his career. The fact is he's still one of the better defenders in the competition and still has a lethal kick, anything suggesting otherwise is just wishful thinking until proven otherwise.

I can't understand why if Kennedy was your favourite non-richmond player you'd be so certain of his impending drop off, he managed to kick 49 goals after 3 years of no pre seasons and missing games, he's had a full pre season so far this year yet you're willing to eat your own shit if he kicks virtually the same amount of goals he managed last year despite his body being in far better shape? Be my guest, I'll hold you to that and hope to see a video of the deed.

Cameron is definitely raw, but all it takes is a naturally improved tank due to it being his 2nd season, more opportunity and responsibility around the forward line which he'll have and a little more consistency and he can cover most of Rioli's influence.

20 goals is a fine contribution for someone playing their first full season, particularly when half the games were spent in the back line or pinch hitting in the ruck, especially when you're playing under 2 of the best key forwards in the competition.

Lynch and Darling averaged virtually the same in all key stats last season, Kennedy has averaged more goals than Riewoldt every year since 2013 and that includes last season, the one which you said Kennedy fell off a cliff, yet he still averaged 0.4 more goals than Riewoldt per game. Not sure how you figured Lambert is the better forward than Cripps when he averages far less goals and goal assists, same deal for Ryan and Castagna really as well. You're comparing a 4th year player to a 1st year player in Rioli v Cameron, but it wouldn't take much improvement on Cameron's 2019 to be at a similar level to Rioli this season. Allen will be ahead of Petruccelle as far as being a forward goes in 2020 and I don't think you'd find many people who would take Bolton ahead of Allen. Your assessment of the 2 forward lines is completely deluded.
Lynch had no pre-season and kicked more goals than Darling, so yeah, he definitely has him covered.

Jack was injured last season so it’s pretty pointless looking at his averages considering he was on limited game time, but he has been the better player than Kennedy over their careers. More goals, more Colemans, more games, more premierships and is younger. His averages are better as well. If you look at their form towards the end of the season, Riewoldt looked in great nick, Kennedy looked to be on the sharp decline. There is absolutely no argument you could make for Kennedy being a better player than Jack. Jack was in most expert’s team of the decade. Kennedy was not.

Wow, you cherry pick two statistics that Cripps has over Lambert. Well done. Lambert averages more kicks, handballs, disposals, marks, inside 50s, frees for, contested possessions, uncontested possessions, effective disposals, marks inside fifty, clearances, rebound 50s, one percenters, stoppage clearances, score involvements, metres gained, intercepts, kms per game, Brownlow votes per game, plus has a higher disposal efficiency. You’re absolutely kidding yourself if you think Cripps is better.

And lol, it’s the exact same story with Castagna dominating Ryan in just about every key statistic, except Ryan averages 0.1 more goals per game and 0.3 goal assists per game. Big whoop. Castagna all day every day.

And so what if Rioli is a fourth year player? That’s your problem for having a first year player in your best 22. Rioli is that much better than Cameron at this point in time it’s laughable. Glad you agree.

Why wouldn’t people take Bolton ahead of Allen? Bolton averages more kicks, handballs, disposals, marks, tackles, behinds, inside 50s, goal assists, contested possessions, uncontested possessions, effective disposals, clearances, centre clearances, stoppage clearances, score involvements, metres gained, tackles inside 50, kms per game, Brownlow votes per game plus has a higher disposal efficiency. Bolton is clearly impacting games more than Allen.

How on earth do you actually think you have a better forward line than us? Like it’s actually amazing because I think you’re being genuine and not just trolling. I also just realised I forgot Shane Edwards as well LOL. It’s an absolute whitewash.
 

Do the Dew

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and that was just a warm up
No pre-season training, no pre-season matches, slightly bung knee and flexibility base, new team/gameplan, minimal training in season. Still won us games off his own boot + most contested marks in the comp.

2020 look out.


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LRobbo

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I actually think Richmond are gettable through the middle.
Forward line pressure is elite but hard to maintain but defensively they are imposing and hard to structure up against due to all but Astbury being able to play multiple roles.

Dusty is the best player in the competition and it’s not a debate, but he blatantly refuses to run defensively, Cotchin been a warrior but his body looks to be going on him. Prestia is their best pure mid and a jet and goes both ways.

They are weak in the ruck, Soldo is a good athlete but the best rucks in the competition exploit him, Nankervis is a plodder.

You need a midfield of speed, inside and outside ball winners and goal kickers.

West Coast have that in spades, Geelong did but lost Kelly and is ageing badly (nearly cooked imo) Brisbane and Hawthorn are developing that and GWS have been handed that through concessions.

Richmond are the team to beat but I don’t think they are as far ahead of the rest as the media and some Tigers fans think.
 

PremiershipTigers

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Apr 20, 2018
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History shows pretty clearly that its very hard to back up after a premiership even when you are clearly the best team. Tigers already experienced this in 2018 when they were untouchable at the MCG until it came down to crunch time in the prelim and they just didn't have the same hunger as their opponents.

I think Tigers come into the season as equal favourites with the Eagles (certainly list wise they are top 2) but I don't expect them to walk away with the flag when all is said and done. I'm also thinking that the Tigers have been playing a similar brand for quite a few years and whilst its been very successful I reckon some coaches will have good ideas about how to combat it more effectively.
While your point is valid and it is commonly seen from the reigining premier, you do realise that the 2018 PF performance had nothing to do with lack of hunger, right? As for you assertion oppo coaches will have worked us out - the same was said pre-season last year.
 

tiger_tough

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I think the best way to beat us is to control the ball and hold possession.

Short kicks, switches and marks around the middle/half forward area of the ground slowly sucks our zone defense up the ground and removes the at times impenetrable wall and opens up targets in the forward line. Pies did it beautifully in round 2, but we were in the earliest stages of getting used to no Rance at the time. It was a big learning curve for the rest of the back line to learn to fill his hole.

Fast, slingshot footy rarely works and plays into our hands if anything. I think only a few teams have the skill and personnel to pull it off. Eagles and pies and 2 obvious ones and probably GWS and dogs. Maybe hawks.
 

Tenny

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I actually think Richmond are gettable through the middle.
Forward line pressure is elite but hard to maintain but defensively they are imposing and hard to structure up against due to all but Astbury being able to play multiple roles.

Dusty is the best player in the competition and it’s not a debate, but he blatantly refuses to run defensively, Cotchin been a warrior but his body looks to be going on him. Prestia is their best pure mid and a jet and goes both ways.

They are weak in the ruck, Soldo is a good athlete but the best rucks in the competition exploit him, Nankervis is a plodder.

You need a midfield of speed, inside and outside ball winners and goal kickers.

West Coast have that in spades, Geelong did but lost Kelly and is ageing badly (nearly cooked imo) Brisbane and Hawthorn are developing that and GWS have been handed that through concessions.

Richmond are the team to beat but I don’t think they are as far ahead of the rest as the media and some Tigers fans think.
Dusty rests forward when we lose the midfield battle. Take the Brisbane game for example. We were getting beaten in there so we added a more defensive minded midfielder in Edwards and we got well on top. Then guys like Pickett, Graham, Martin, Lambert, Bolton, etc. will rotate through there as well. Will be good when Stack, Ross and Collier-Dawkins start getting midfield time too. Not sure how we will retain all of our players at this stage. Our midfield is oozing talent.
 

Mister M

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I actually think Richmond are gettable through the middle
Dusty is the best player in the competition and it’s not a debate, but he blatantly refuses to run defensively, Cotchin been a warrior but his body looks to be going on him. Prestia is their best pure mid and a jet and goes both ways.

They are weak in the ruck, Soldo is a good athlete but the best rucks in the competition exploit him, Nankervis is a plodder.

You need a midfield of speed, inside and outside ball winners and goal kickers.

West Coast have that in spades, Geelong did but lost Kelly and is ageing badly (nearly cooked imo) Brisbane and Hawthorn are developing that and GWS have been handed that through concessions.

Richmond are the team to beat but I don’t think they are as far ahead of the rest as the media and some Tigers fans think.
I agree with you on some aspects there (particular in regard to our ruck division still developing and can be exploited by Gawn, Grundy, etc.)

However you claim that Richmond don't have a "midfield of speed, inside and outside ball winners and goal kickers". I disagree with that when you go beyond the starting midfield of Prestia, Dusty & Cotchin. All three of Shane Edwards, Kane Lambert & Jack Graham are top quality and different midfielders to the main three.

  • Kane Lambert is a skilful inside mid who has a knack of being able to get the handball out of the pack to a forward moving player (incredibly vital to Richmond's run & carry game plan)
  • Shane Edwards is a clever player who has the ability to win the ball on the inside & the outside. Has the best 'Footy IQ' in the club and one of the best in the competition.
  • Jack Graham is the best defensive mid in the Richmond side (averaging over 6.5 tackles his entire career),
All three of those players are capable of kicking goals with all of them having kicked bags of goals (3-4+ goals) within their career.

The focus is clearly on the 'stars' of the Richmond midfield, but it is deeper than most people give it credit for. How many clubs have a '6th best midfielder' as good as Jack Graham?
 

nineteen eighty

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I think the best way to beat us is to control the ball and hold possession.

Short kicks, switches and marks around the middle/half forward area of the ground slowly sucks our zone defense up the ground and removes the at times impenetrable wall and opens up targets in the forward line. Pies did it beautifully in round 2, but we were in the earliest stages of getting used to no Rance at the time. It was a big learning curve for the rest of the back line to learn to fill his hole.

Fast, slingshot footy rarely works and plays into our hands if anything. I think only a few teams have the skill and personnel to pull it off. Eagles and pies and 2 obvious ones and probably GWS and dogs. Maybe hawks.
Said it earlier...holding onto the ball is key. Whether it's through precision short kicks that open space or contested marking, teams need to mark and control the ball.

Teams that have killed us in contested marks have done well against us. Not a magical formula as contested marks are priceless. Just hard to pull off (unless that big fluck American pr1ck comes along and plucks 10 against you in one match...and never to be repeated).
 

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