Stopping the Tigers 2020

Tiger Toffee

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I actually think Richmond are gettable through the middle.
Forward line pressure is elite but hard to maintain but defensively they are imposing and hard to structure up against due to all but Astbury being able to play multiple roles.

Dusty is the best player in the competition and it’s not a debate, but he blatantly refuses to run defensively, Cotchin been a warrior but his body looks to be going on him. Prestia is their best pure mid and a jet and goes both ways.

They are weak in the ruck, Soldo is a good athlete but the best rucks in the competition exploit him, Nankervis is a plodder.

You need a midfield of speed, inside and outside ball winners and goal kickers.

West Coast have that in spades, Geelong did but lost Kelly and is ageing badly (nearly cooked imo) Brisbane and Hawthorn are developing that and GWS have been handed that through concessions.

Richmond are the team to beat but I don’t think they are as far ahead of the rest as the media and some Tigers fans think.
Beat us in the middle we don't care, we actually encourage it.

As for rucks, we are one of the best in he league for centre clearances so Soldo and Nank can't be that bad now can they, around the ground we don't give a shit if we lose that clearance, again we encourage it.

Overall you just showed you know nothing about how Richmond plays.
 

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old55

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Feb 12, 2011
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The answer is easy but doing it isn't.

No Dusty = No flags, it's that simple. He's the clearly the best player in AFL.

Richmond are a very good side and Dusty is the flag icing. Add Dangerfield or Fyfe instead and they also probably still win it.
 

_RT_

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The problem with trying to stop Richmond is that the way you need to do it is hard to play for a full 4 quarters. Opposition sides need to control the footy, need to maintain possession, need to hit targets in a limited window that can allow them to open the game up to allow them to score quickly. Pies R2, Giants R3 & Dogs R7, are the blueprint for how you beat us. In all those games the 3 teams controlled possession and when the opportunity presented pulled the trigger to open up the ground and allow them to move quickly into their forward 50s where they could hit up isolated targets.

As I said though it's hard to do for 4 quarters, WCE tried it late in the season but couldn't sustain it for long enough to capitalise on their dominance and were unable to recover once Richmond got the game on their terms. The Lions and Cats in the first 2 finals also tried to do it but again couldn't sustain it for long enough and once Richmond were able to get the game on their terms were simply put away with ease in the end.

As for the lack of talent coming through the Richmond VFL side have finished top 4 in the VFL for the last 3-4 years and have regularly over the last 3 seasons had rookies step in each year and look like ready made players. As much as it hurts opposition fans Richmond aren't going to be dropping away any time soon.
 

Wallaby

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The answer is easy but doing it isn't.

No Dusty = No flags, it's that simple. He's the clearly the best player in AFL.

Richmond are a very good side and Dusty is the flag icing. Add Dangerfield or Fyfe instead and they also probably still win it.
Disagree. I don't think any one player in any team is the make-or-break. The team and teamwoirk is far more important.
At half-time in Rd 1 people were saying exactly the same thing when Rance went down.
In the GF, Dusty had been injured and replaced by Sam the Spud (of whom we have had many at Richmond) we still would have won the game by plenty.I'm not saying he's not the best player in the game (he's in the argument), but no one player is indispensible. We didn't lose the 2018 Prelim because Dusty was ill - we lost because Collingwood had a brilliant attack gameplan in the first half, and by the time we worked it out, it was too late.
 

Jez1974

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Disagree. I don't think any one player in any team is the make-or-break. The team and teamwoirk is far more important.
At half-time in Rd 1 people were saying exactly the same thing when Rance went down.
In the GF, Dusty had been injured and replaced by Sam the Spud (of whom we have had many at Richmond) we still would have won the game by plenty.I'm not saying he's not the best player in the game (he's in the argument), but no one player is indispensible. We didn't lose the 2018 Prelim because Dusty was ill - we lost because Collingwood had a brilliant attack gameplan in the first half, and by the time we worked it out, it was too late.
Lost because no one put a body on Cox!
 

magpie_marty

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Disagree. I don't think any one player in any team is the make-or-break. The team and teamwoirk is far more important.
At half-time in Rd 1 people were saying exactly the same thing when Rance went down.
In the GF, Dusty had been injured and replaced by Sam the Spud (of whom we have had many at Richmond) we still would have won the game by plenty.I'm not saying he's not the best player in the game (he's in the argument), but no one player is indispensible. We didn't lose the 2018 Prelim because Dusty was ill - we lost because Collingwood had a brilliant attack gameplan in the first half, and by the time we worked it out, it was too late.
Very good post sir,
Fair and honest.
How to stop Richmond in 2020 will be fascinating to watch.
They have so much depth and talent and other clubs must be in awe of there whole set up.
 

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old55

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Disagree. I don't think any one player in any team is the make-or-break. The team and teamwoirk is far more important.
At half-time in Rd 1 people were saying exactly the same thing when Rance went down.
In the GF, Dusty had been injured and replaced by Sam the Spud (of whom we have had many at Richmond) we still would have won the game by plenty.I'm not saying he's not the best player in the game (he's in the argument), but no one player is indispensible. We didn't lose the 2018 Prelim because Dusty was ill - we lost because Collingwood had a brilliant attack gameplan in the first half, and by the time we worked it out, it was too late.
I wasn't saying that when Rance went down. I was saying no Dusty = no flags.

Yes Richmond would have won this year's GF if Dusty didn't play because GWS were cooked. But if he was out for an extended period in the season and the lead up finals, they wouldn't have made the GF. So no flag.
 

Captain chaos

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They don't have any weaknesses and their player 15-30 are pretty good and even. The oft quoted prelim final lost is fools gold-they had a bad night and Astbury was on a drip for 24 hours before the game and dusty not right. FFS, the pies lost an the unlosable prelim this year against GWS with no green, Conigilio or Whitfield when 1.34 favourite. IT was a bad night not necessarily a blueprint on how to beat the pies.

The worry for the rest of us is Bolton is 20 and could be anything, stack the same and Balta borderline freakish-all these guys are under 21 as are Ross and many other of their VFL premiershp side.
 

Gavin Excell

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Very good post sir,
Fair and honest.
How to stop Richmond in 2020 will be fascinating to watch.
They have so much depth and talent and other clubs must be in awe of there whole set up.
I think pressure will be king as clubs look to emulate and beat Richmond.
Not sure how much teams can improve on this over a pre season though.

Scoring also may dry up further
 

Grrr

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I think pressure will be king as clubs look to emulate and beat Richmond.
Not sure how much teams can improve on this over a pre season though.

Scoring also may dry up further
Pressure is hard to maintain for 4 quarters. Richmond tend to play in spurts. They absorb pressure and because of our good backline they don't bleed that hard when the opposition is in control. Then players like Martin and Edwards come into the game and can cut you up pretty quick. That manic forward movement is hard to stop.
Of course if a player has a blinder like Naughton or Darling did then we are like any side. I think Richmond's side will be quite a bit better this year than last with young players like Bolton and Stack finding their feet and Pickett will be interesting. But all sides can probably say the same. One side always bolts and if you come into form around finals, then you are as good a chance as anyone.
 

GastevsBeard

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Pressure is hard to maintain for 4 quarters. Richmond tend to play in spurts. They absorb pressure and because of our good backline they don't bleed that hard when the opposition is in control. Then players like Martin and Edwards come into the game and can cut you up pretty quick. That manic forward movement is hard to stop.
Of course if a player has a blinder like Naughton or Darling did then we are like any side. I think Richmond's side will be quite a bit better this year than last with young players like Bolton and Stack finding their feet and Pickett will be interesting. But all sides can probably say the same. One side always bolts and if you come into form around finals, then you are as good a chance as anyone.
Absolutely right - without our defence taking plenty of intercept marks & forcing low % shots on goal in QF & PF 2019, the deficits could have blown out considerably more, as per PF 2018
 

Yippy Yi Yeo

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Lynch had no pre-season and kicked more goals than Darling, so yeah, he definitely has him covered.

Jack was injured last season so it’s pretty pointless looking at his averages considering he was on limited game time, but he has been the better player than Kennedy over their careers. More goals, more Colemans, more games, more premierships and is younger. His averages are better as well. If you look at their form towards the end of the season, Riewoldt looked in great nick, Kennedy looked to be on the sharp decline. There is absolutely no argument you could make for Kennedy being a better player than Jack. Jack was in most expert’s team of the decade. Kennedy was not.

Wow, you cherry pick two statistics that Cripps has over Lambert. Well done. Lambert averages more kicks, handballs, disposals, marks, inside 50s, frees for, contested possessions, uncontested possessions, effective disposals, marks inside fifty, clearances, rebound 50s, one percenters, stoppage clearances, score involvements, metres gained, intercepts, kms per game, Brownlow votes per game, plus has a higher disposal efficiency. You’re absolutely kidding yourself if you think Cripps is better.

And lol, it’s the exact same story with Castagna dominating Ryan in just about every key statistic, except Ryan averages 0.1 more goals per game and 0.3 goal assists per game. Big whoop. Castagna all day every day.

And so what if Rioli is a fourth year player? That’s your problem for having a first year player in your best 22. Rioli is that much better than Cameron at this point in time it’s laughable. Glad you agree.

Why wouldn’t people take Bolton ahead of Allen? Bolton averages more kicks, handballs, disposals, marks, tackles, behinds, inside 50s, goal assists, contested possessions, uncontested possessions, effective disposals, clearances, centre clearances, stoppage clearances, score involvements, metres gained, tackles inside 50, kms per game, Brownlow votes per game plus has a higher disposal efficiency. Bolton is clearly impacting games more than Allen.

How on earth do you actually think you have a better forward line than us? Like it’s actually amazing because I think you’re being genuine and not just trolling. I also just realised I forgot Shane Edwards as well LOL. It’s an absolute whitewash.
On output last year Lynch and Darling were more or less the same, so until he has him covered, no he doesn't have him covered.

Kennedy with a higher goal average not only over their careers, but in 6 of the last 7 seasons suggests that no he hasn't been the better player. Kennedy averaged over 3 goals a year every season from 2014 until this year with a peak of 3.63, Riewoldt has never averaged above 3 goals with his peak at 2.92.

JK would have won a 3rd coleman in 2017 despite only playing 17 games during the season if not for Carlton completely rolling over and allowing Buddy to kick 10 in the final game of the season. He kicked 65 goals from 17 games, the same total that Riewoldt won the coleman with in 2018 from 22 games, so if you want to somehow count that as Riewoldt being the better player then go ahead, it's nothing but intellectual dishonesty. I'll repeat myself again though, yes Kennedy's form dropped towards the end of the season, he'd just turned 32 and hadn't had a preseason for 3 years so being in good physical condition is becoming more important than ever for him, so luckily he's had an uninterrupted pre season this year and looks set to fire.

Just to entertain your silly arbitrary point of teams of the decade, literally every single team of the decade I saw on the first 2 pages on google had Kennedy, with a few leaving Riewoldt out, and of the ones with JK and JR in the side, more often than not JK was FF with JR on a flank/pocket or the bench.

I thought we were talking about forwardlines, I wouldn't call mentioning the fact Cripps averages almost twice as many goals as Lambert as cherry picking. You're also lying about goal assists, tackles and 1%ers. Have you even looked at the stats? Goal assists is in Cripps favour as well 0.84 to 0.62. They average roughly the same amount of tackles, Cripps edging him out 3.37 to 3.33, and exactly the same amount of 1%ers.

So we're talking about playing in the forward line here, Cripps who averages almost twice as many goals, and more goal assists too, the same amount of tackles and 1%ers, but less disposals and clearances, somehow makes Lambert the better forward? Lamberts possession breakdown is 33% contested to 43% for Cripps and 48% kicks to handballs to Cripps 56% kicks to handballs, so you'd expect Lambert to have the better disposal efficiency. All these stats do is tell me what I already knew, Lambert spends a lot more time in the midfield than Cripps and Cripps is the better forward, better luck next time.

Displaying your intellectual dishonest yet again, Ryan averages 0.12 more goals, 0.33 more goal assists, not to mention the things that Ryan does that don't impact the stat sheet, and that's somehow offset by Castagna averaging 3.5 more handballs (0.5 less kicks however), 1.7 more uncontested marks (0.6 less contested marks however), 2 less contested possessions, and having just over half as many 1%er's as Ryan. I don't think so mate, if you did a poll on who would you prefer out of Ryan and Castagna, Castagna would be lucky to get a vote from anyone outside of the Richmond supporter base. Not to mention Ryan is significantly more accurate kicking at goal than Castagna. 61.3% conversion to 49.1% conversion.

After proving all your above points wrong I'm happy to let you have D Rioli over Cameron, luckily for WC though Cameron has huge room for growth and isn't even that far behind D Rioli on output based on last season.

Again you lie, Allen averages more marks than Bolton, more goals despite playing a good chunk of the season in defense which also impacts his goal assists, score involvements, possession counts, and a whole range of other measures that make comparing the 2 players on the stat sheet pointless. Allen was required to fill gaps in the back line and ruck last year but he'll be used predominantly as a forward this year. Just like Ryan v Castagna, I don't think you'd find many people at all outside of the Richmond supporter base that would rather have Bolton in their forward line over Oscar Allen.
 
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