Stopping the Tigers 2020

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Dusty0004 said:
2018 they don’t lose that game against the Hawks or the ones against the Pies and the Tigers.
Will be interesting to see if they get their hunger back. Obviously a very good midfield. Nic Nat important but I think Darling and Kennedy is more important. Darling had a good year last year but can be tad inconsistent and as great at JK has been last year he looked to he slowing down. They have the tools the Eagles
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I’ve got to believe JK was playing injured this year, no way a guy drops off that much year to year without a reason. Hopefully he’s fit and back to his best. Willie Rioli will be a massive loss, Ryan and Rioli in tandem have them a massive point of difference and now half of that is gone.
 

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Smithdogmaddog said:
I’ve got to believe JK was playing injured this year, no way a guy drops off that much year to year without a reason. Hopefully he’s fit and back to his best. Willie Rioli will be a massive loss, Ryan and Rioli in tandem have them a massive point of difference and now half of that is gone.
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Jk had a shocking run at injury for 2019. This 2020 is the first pre season he has in 3 years. Agreed Rioli is a massive loss. Hopefully jarrod Cameron can provide for Rioli does.
 
The only way to best the tigers is to match them at contested football but most importantly enter forward line with precision. Even without Rance. Their defence structures are nearly impenetrable unless you follow the pies 2018 preliminary final blueprint where you have the x factors like DeGoey and a big forward. And not many teams can match that. Port played Tigers reserves last season and got schooled in structures. Hardwick is a quality coach.

But like any sport, a new tsunami of talent and coaching prowess can deliver change....at the moment I think that is West Coast
 
Lsta062 said:
Well, they are a chance, but I personally don’t think it is likely. B2B is hard enough as it is and Richmond’s core players are starting to creep towards the older end of the competition now.
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No more older than any other teams core players, our oldest by end of September 2021 will be Houli at 33, you make it sound like we're the only team with ageing core players. If we are not likely because of our older core players than no one else is either because of their's.
 
amcre said:
Only issue with that is JK is 32 year old KPF. I would think he is likely to get injured again.


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Riewoldt' injuries were a broken hand from hitting the ground after a mark and a bumping of knees, nothing to do with age. I was just his turn after a very long spell without any injuries. Cotchin's hamstings are more of an issue, but he is only 29, so should not have an issue with the ability of medical staff these days.
 
Niggles said:
Yes, great observation. Well done. Almost exactly the same as what the poster you quoted said. You know? The bit where he said "Needing to go b2b prior to 3peating."
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Yeah. Was agreeing and pointing out original poster counts from 1 to 3!!!??
 

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LordLucifer said:
You are "sort of" on the right path but it doesn't have to be that blatant & thuggish either.

In the old days (ie. 70's & 80's), every club would always lift to a higher level when they came up against the reigning premier. They would tackle more ferociously than normal, bump way harder and generally make the game way more physical than was expected.

By the time the finals came around, the reigning premier was battered & bruised to the extent that they were easy pickings if they had made it there or they just ran out of puff towards the end of the home & away rounds.
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Hawthorn played in 7 Grand Finals in a row in the 1980s.

Not much running out of puff apparent.

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Tiger Toffee said:
No more older than any other teams core players, our oldest by end of September 2021 will be Houli at 33, you make it sound like we're the only team with ageing core players. If we are not likely because of our older core players than no one else is either because of their's.
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Jack Riewoldt and Shane Edwards would be 33 as well. We have an older core than Brisbane and Bulldogs. Once players hit their 30s, the decline can come rapidly.

Look at how old the ages of these players are at the end of this year:

Dustin Martin - 29
David Astbury - 29
Nathan Broad - 27
Josh Caddy - 28
Trent Cotchin - 30
Shane Edwards - 32
Dylan Grimes - 29
Tom Lynch - 28
Bachar Houli - 32
Kane Lambert - 29
Marlion Pickett - 29
Dion Prestia - 28
Jack Riewoldt - 32

There are a lot of core players on this list. They are all 30 years old and older by the end of 2021 with the exception of Broad. If you don’t think that this is a list of core players that are ageing, then I don’t know what else to say.

The only core players that aren’t on here are Castagna, Rioli, Stack, Nankervis, Vlastuin and possibly McIntosh.

It might be comparative to teams like Geelong, West Coast and Collingwood, but they may not be our competition in 2021. It may be a younger core like Brisbane, Melbourne or Bulldogs, which is why I think there is only a slim chance of us doing a three-peat. If we wanted to do one, we should have won in 2018 IMO.

We should worry about the B2B first though. That’s hard enough as it is. If and when we do, then we’ll get a clearer picture of where these players are at.
 
Lsta062 said:
Jack Riewoldt and Shane Edwards would be 33 as well. We have an older core than Brisbane and Bulldogs. Once players hit their 30s, the decline can come rapidly.

Look at how old the ages of these players are at the end of this year:

Dustin Martin - 29
David Astbury - 29
Nathan Broad - 27
Josh Caddy - 28
Trent Cotchin - 30
Shane Edwards - 32
Dylan Grimes - 29
Tom Lynch - 28
Bachar Houli - 32
Kane Lambert - 29
Marlion Pickett - 29
Dion Prestia - 28
Jack Riewoldt - 32

There are a lot of core players on this list. They are all 30 years old and older by the end of 2021 with the exception of Broad. If you don’t think that this is a list of core players that are ageing, then I don’t know what else to say.

The only core players that aren’t on here are Castagna, Rioli, Stack, Nankervis, Vlastuin and possibly McIntosh.

It might be comparative to teams like Geelong, West Coast and Collingwood, but they may not be our competition in 2021. It may be a younger core like Brisbane, Melbourne or Bulldogs, which is why I think there is only a slim chance of us doing a three-peat. If we wanted to do one, we should have won in 2018 IMO.

We should worry about the B2B first though. That’s hard enough as it is. If and when we do, then we’ll get a clearer picture of where these players are at.
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There is plenty of room for transition if you do it right. Geelong have transitioned very well over the years since the GF. They might not have won a GF, but they have been thereabouts. Besides if we are lucky enough to win another GF in the next year or so, I'd contently fall back to 9th, or even below.
 
Grrr said:
There is plenty of room for transition if you do it right. Geelong have transitioned very well over the years since the GF. They might not have won a GF, but they have been thereabouts. Besides if we are lucky enough to win another GF in the next year or so, I'd contently fall back to 9th, or even below.
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Agree.

If we managed to win another one I'd cop spoons!


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Grrr said:
There is plenty of room for transition if you do it right. Geelong have transitioned very well over the years since the GF. They might not have won a GF, but they have been thereabouts. Besides if we are lucky enough to win another GF in the next year or so, I'd contently fall back to 9th, or even below.
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The argument that I was making was more related to a three-peat. If Richmond wins in 2020, then I still think that we can contend in 2021, but I think that it would be a little tough with a core group of players at the listed ages above. I personally think the Premiership sweet spot is when your core players are at the 24-29 range as a group.

We may not have a problem in a year like 2024-2025 when our current youth would have matured, but I think the 2021-2023 years are not looking like Premiership years for us even if we end up contending. I don’t know if we will replace them in time as they drop in output/retire and it wouldn’t be easy beating teams who’d have their core group of players at or building to their prime like a Carlton, Brisbane, Melbourne or Bulldogs type.

It’s like comparing Hawthorn of 2013-2015 against the 2013-2015 team of Richmond in the years of 2017 and 2018. Hawthorn finished top 4 in 2018 and were contenders, but they obviously couldn’t go with a Richmond team who had a core hitting their prime. The Geelong team of 2007-2011 were fantastic, but couldn’t really go with the younger Hawthorn team in 2013-2015 (although Hawthorn weren’t really that young in 2015). That’s how I would see the 2021 team of Richmond in their current trajectory.

Geelong have transitioned right, but they have been unable to bring in enough talent/class to win a Premiership since 2011 even if it is only slightly.

My point is that I expect some of our core players that are 30 and over to reduce in output by 2021 and I don’t think we’ll replace the gap they leave quick enough unless we do a couple of huge trades in the post-2020 off-season. Even then, we’re probably still up against it when it comes to doing a three-peat should we win this season unfortunately.
 
Lsta062 said:
The argument that I was making was more related to a three-peat. If Richmond wins in 2020, then I still think that we can contend in 2021, but I think that it would be a little tough with a core group of players at the listed ages above. I personally think the Premiership sweet spot is when your core players are at the 24-29 range as a group.

We may not have a problem in a year like 2024-2025 when our current youth would have matured, but I think the 2021-2023 years are not looking like Premiership years for us even if we end up contending. I don’t know if we will replace them in time as they drop in output/retire and it wouldn’t be easy beating teams who’d have their core group of players at or building to their prime like a Carlton, Brisbane, Melbourne or Bulldogs type.

It’s like comparing Hawthorn of 2013-2015 against the 2013-2015 team of Richmond in the years of 2017 and 2018. Hawthorn finished top 4 in 2018 and were contenders, but they obviously couldn’t go with a Richmond team who had a core hitting their prime. The Geelong team of 2007-2011 were fantastic, but couldn’t really go with the younger Hawthorn team in 2013-2015 (although Hawthorn weren’t really that young in 2015). That’s how I would see the 2021 team of Richmond in their current trajectory.

Geelong have transitioned right, but they have been unable to bring in enough talent/class to win a Premiership since 2011 even if it is only slightly.

My point is that I expect some of our core players that are 30 and over to reduce in output by 2021 and I don’t think we’ll replace the gap they leave quick enough unless we do a couple of huge trades in the post-2020 off-season. Even then, we’re probably still up against it when it comes to doing a three-peat should we win this season unfortunately.
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I get your argument and good points above, just trying to abridge it back, otherwise non Richmond posters might accuse off of going on and on a bit.... queue starts here.
But transitions are easier for the successful clubs rightly or wrongly, because players want to go there, and good players want to leave their clubs all the time. Plus there are some good players coming through, but as Geelong and Hawthorn have found out, you can't replace champions easily.
 
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