Autopsy Straight kicking Dogs discombombulate Norf 139 - 71

Remove this Banner Ad

Also worth pointing out then that only 2 of Lynch's, 1 of Larkey's, 1 of Curnow's and 0 of McKay's goals were against Gardner.

Gardner has been very good this year defensively, and at this stage I'm not sure what else his detractors are looking for him to do. In a future line-up we'll probably see a lot this year, he'll be in a backline with Keath and O'Brien who both prefer to play a bit more attacking and hunt intercept marks. If you want at least one of them to have the freedom to play that way, Gardner playing a purely defensive role is exactly what we need - and he's played that role very well so far.

From 15 contested defensive one-on-one contests this year, Gardner's only lost 4. That puts him better than average for key defenders, and much better than O'Brien and Cordy (same as last year in fact). He's also top 5 in the league for spoils. And as already mentioned, is conceding very few goals to his direct opponent.

On top of that, he's still only 24 and has just barely played one season worth of games now. He's a great size, already has good speed and endurance, and is now starting to clearly add some strength (see him out-bodying Goldstein for a contested mark on the weekend, or sticking that tackle on Buddy). He's also now far more composed with ball in hand (16 touches for 1 turn over on the weekend). I suspect the intercept marking will gradually come - but again, as long as he's locking down whichever opponent he's playing on, he's got a safe spot in our best 22.
Great post. And great statistical insight.

The improvement in his game has been evident to the eye, but quiet surprised how well his defensive stats are stacking up.

Lack of confidence is one of the biggest developmental setbacks a defender can have, so now he’s getting obvious results (that some unfortunately ignore) he’ll be more confident in his game and it should continue to grow and improve.
 
Also worth pointing out then that only 2 of Lynch's, 1 of Larkey's, 1 of Curnow's and 0 of McKay's goals were against Gardner.

Gardner has been very good this year defensively, and at this stage I'm not sure what else his detractors are looking for him to do. In a future line-up we'll probably see a lot this year, he'll be in a backline with Keath and O'Brien who both prefer to play a bit more attacking and hunt intercept marks. If you want at least one of them to have the freedom to play that way, Gardner playing a purely defensive role is exactly what we need - and he's played that role very well so far.

From 15 contested defensive one-on-one contests this year, Gardner's only lost 4. That puts him better than average for key defenders, and much better than O'Brien and Cordy (same as last year in fact). He's also top 5 in the league for spoils. And as already mentioned, is conceding very few goals to his direct opponent.

On top of that, he's still only 24 and has just barely played one season worth of games now. He's a great size, already has good speed and endurance, and is now starting to clearly add some strength (see him out-bodying Goldstein for a contested mark on the weekend, or sticking that tackle on Buddy). He's also now far more composed with ball in hand (16 touches for 1 turn over on the weekend). I suspect the intercept marking will gradually come - but again, as long as he's locking down whichever opponent he's playing on, he's got a safe spot in our best 22.

if and when he can gain confidence with his game his composure will improve. He’s on the right track so far and is slowly building.
 
Also worth pointing out then that only 2 of Lynch's, 1 of Larkey's, 1 of Curnow's and 0 of McKay's goals were against Gardner.

Gardner has been very good this year defensively, and at this stage I'm not sure what else his detractors are looking for him to do. In a future line-up we'll probably see a lot this year, he'll be in a backline with Keath and O'Brien who both prefer to play a bit more attacking and hunt intercept marks. If you want at least one of them to have the freedom to play that way, Gardner playing a purely defensive role is exactly what we need - and he's played that role very well so far.

From 15 contested defensive one-on-one contests this year, Gardner's only lost 4. That puts him better than average for key defenders, and much better than O'Brien and Cordy (same as last year in fact). He's also top 5 in the league for spoils. And as already mentioned, is conceding very few goals to his direct opponent.

On top of that, he's still only 24 and has just barely played one season worth of games now. He's a great size, already has good speed and endurance, and is now starting to clearly add some strength (see him out-bodying Goldstein for a contested mark on the weekend, or sticking that tackle on Buddy). He's also now far more composed with ball in hand (16 touches for 1 turn over on the weekend). I suspect the intercept marking will gradually come - but again, as long as he's locking down whichever opponent he's playing on, he's got a safe spot in our best 22.
Stats are an interesting thing, you can really turn them any way you like. For example yes this year he has had those figures but last year, yes he was injured and missed games, but he had 23 and only lost 4 so his % at this stage is worse than last year.

1650189883779.png

He had 16 touches yep, 12 were uncontested, pretty hard to mess them up under no pressure, although he did manage one and Tim O'Brien a couple. And lets not forget we were playing North.

Like some others yes I am happy he has improved, but off a low base and so he should with the amount of chances he has been given. 4th year on our list after 3 on Geelongs, only played 25 games. People calling him an A grade defender and the like is just crap.
 
Last edited:

Log in to remove this ad.

Gardner's advantages is he's very athletic for his height and weight. Not many blokes weighing over 100kg have the leaping ability that he does, fhere were times thay he was slightly out of position but could still effect a spoil becaus he would successfully pogostick to the ball.

Less interested in debating if he played a good or bad game, more that two seasons ago you'd have been mad for suggesting that he could be the Number 1 key defender even temporarily. And his confidence is growing, he's running into better positions to win the ball on switches of play and backing in his kicking rather than taking the safest option. His previous career high disposals number was 12, he had 16 in this game. That makes a difference.
 
Stats are an interesting thing, you can really turn them any way you like. For example yes this year he has had those figures but last year, yes he was injured and missed games, but he had 23 and only lost 4 so his % at this stage is worse than last year.

View attachment 1376396
He had 16 touches yep, 12 were uncontested, pretty hard to mess them up under no pressure, although he did manage one and Tim O'Brien a couple. And lets not forget we were playing North.

Like some others yes I am happy he has improved, but off a low base and so he should with the amount of chances he has been given. 4th year on our list after 3 on Geelongs, only played 25 games. People calling him an A grade defender and the like is just crap

No one in here has called him an A Grader.

Why do you and Mr Inbetweener feel the need to make stuff like that up?
 
Thoughts on Gardner.
I think he came from an extremely low starting point - one of the most out of depth key defenders I’ve seen in a while, and to his credit he has improved dramatically. In my mind that doesn’t make him ‘good’, but instead just far more competent than he was.

I find myself almost praising him for doing something competently rather than something good. If he marks the ball I am surprised rather than that being the expectation. He hits a kick and I am surprised. I don’t really trust him. I am happy to be proven wrong and again think his physical attributes are something that may be worth persisting with.

So overall, I would still currently rate him below average, and not entirely competent or reliable, which is an improvement as previously I would’ve rated him poor and totally unreliable.

He has improved, but let’s not lose sight of the bigger picture, he is one of the weaker key defenders getting regular game time in the AFL quite comfortably, but is gaining In confidence albeit slowly.
 
No one in here has called him an A Grader.

Why do you and Mr Inbetweener feel the need to make stuff like that up?
I didn’t say anyone called him an A grader. Perhaps it’s you who is making stuff up?

I’ve given him credit and acknowledged he has improved. Just saying I’m personally not getting carried away with his form before declaring him as someone who can hold up the backline with Keath out.
 
Last edited:
I didn’t say anyone called him an A grader. Perhaps it’s you who is making stuff up?

I’ve given him credit and acknowledged he has improved. Just saying I’m personally not getting carried away with his form before declaring him as someone who can hold up the backline with Keath out.

You posted that some are suggesting he’s now playing like Matty Scarlett. No one has said anything like that.
 
Last edited:
I didn’t say anyone called him an A grader. Perhaps it’s you who is making stuff up?

I’ve given him credit and acknowledged he has improved. Just saying I’m personally not getting carried away with his form before declaring him as someone who can hold up the backline with Keath out.
Nah not an A-grader, just playing like one of the best key backs of all time.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Thoughts on Gardner.
I think he came from an extremely low starting point - one of the most out of depth key defenders I’ve seen in a while, and to his credit he has improved dramatically. In my mind that doesn’t make him ‘good’, but instead just far more competent than he was.

I find myself almost praising him for doing something competently rather than something good. If he marks the ball I am surprised rather than that being the expectation. He hits a kick and I am surprised. I don’t really trust him. I am happy to be proven wrong and again think his physical attributes are something that may be worth persisting with.

So overall, I would still currently rate him below average, and not entirely competent or reliable, which is an improvement as previously I would’ve rated him poor and totally unreliable.

He has improved, but let’s not lose sight of the bigger picture, he is one of the weaker key defenders getting regular game time in the AFL quite comfortably, but is gaining In confidence albeit slowly.
Well put. It's the expectation game - having watched him initially I couldn't believe he would ever be a functioning AFL footballer. Now that he's doing things you would expect an AFL defender to do many of us are saying how great he looks.

Two ways of looking at it - glass half empty, he probably doesn't get a game at any club who'll compete for finals and as a result our KPDs are likely the worst in the eight (if we make it there). Glass half full, he has improved significantly even though it was from an extremely low base so maybe there's more improvement to come and he will grow with confidence.

The main problem with our defence right now is the stupid decisions and poor execution costing turnover goals. Williams an obvious culprit, Dale and Daniel haven't been as good as they would normally be in that area and appear to be trying to thread the needle with insanely difficult kicks that make no sense from a risk/reward perspective. Baz - while getting a lot of the ball - also trying to cut in to the corridor and kicking it straight into an opponent's hands from half back/wing.

We have a fairly benign 6 weeks coming up, where a finals team would probably go 5-1 or thereabouts. I can't say I'm confident that will happen given recent performances, but fingers crossed they click into gear.
 
Lol, no one said that!!

Yeah, I think it came from "I also think it’s a fair way off the mark to suggest most clubs wouldn’t even have him on their list. At this rate, the jury would still be out after an AA gong." I don't read that at all as saying he's on an AA trajectory, but that even if he got AA people would still doubt his ability.
 
Lol, no one said that!!

Yeah, I think it came from "I also think it’s a fair way off the mark to suggest most clubs wouldn’t even have him on their list. At this rate, the jury would still be out after an AA gong." I don't read that at all as saying he's on an AA trajectory, but that even if he got AA people would still doubt his ability.
Sorry, yes, that is what I was referring to. I’ve clearly misread it.
 
Cartilage damage for Garcia , so a better result than an ACL wonder what kind of time frame that puts him out for?
Edit : Anywhere from 4 weeks to 6 months depending on how much damage has been sustained
 
No one in here has called him an A Grader.

Why do you and Mr Inbetweener feel the need to make stuff like that up?
I said A grade defender and the like, perhaps I could have worded it better, there have been comments about him being a good defender, from you also I believe, maybe that is a B or B+ and not A grade as I referenced....TommyD13 put it fairly well I thought, when he does something any afl footballer should do it is lauded because he was very poor early days.

Might have to agree to disagree and I certainly hope everyone who thinks he is going to make it is right, because we need it.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top