Other Strategy, Playbooks, Schemes, Formations, Tactics, Coaching & Philosophy

Sep 6, 2005
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Love the Chiefs - the slot receiver is the checkdown option whilst the RB is on a go route - nice!
That cant be a staple thing tho, your RB would be dead doing that and trying to carry ball, has to be the scat back. Which is why I'm surprised the old split back formation has been abandoned the last ten years. Having both RBS on at the same time wont telegraph what you do
 
That cant be a staple thing tho, your RB would be dead doing that and trying to carry ball, has to be the scat back. Which is why I'm surprised the old split back formation has been abandoned the last ten years. Having both RBS on at the same time wont telegraph what you do
Yup, the NFL is always about creating mismatches and the split back formation (21 formation) is definitely a way to do that. Same thing with single RB, double TE (12 formation) where one of the TEs motions into either the X or Z WR position.
 
Sep 6, 2005
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Yup, the NFL is always about creating mismatches and the split back formation (21 formation) is definitely a way to do that. Same thing with single RB, double TE (12 formation) where one of the TEs motions into either the X or Z WR position.
I'm hoping Gruden brings that back (21). He likes old things. Might come back in vogue :p
 
Sep 6, 2005
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Mind you 21 personnel could also be i-form, strong-i or weak-i. The 21 personnel is otherwise known as the "pro-set" which Paul Brown standardized. Usually the 21 is FB and HB. I was thinking more a split back with both HBs....the usual ball carrier and a pure scat back (receiver).

Split-Back-Formation.jpg
 
Sep 6, 2005
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I think Miami has helped show how to defend against the RPO in the NFL. The Dolphins would smash the qb (even after he handed it off) because hes legitimately a potential ball carrier and no roughing the passer penalty. Mariota got knocked out of the game. And I think we'll start seeing teams do this. Soon, forcing teams to abandon the RPO last their star QB get hurt.
 
Feb 25, 2013
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I think Miami has helped show how to defend against the RPO in the NFL. The Dolphins would smash the qb (even after he handed it off) because hes legitimately a potential ball carrier and no roughing the passer penalty. Mariota got knocked out of the game. And I think we'll start seeing teams do this. Soon, forcing teams to abandon the RPO last their star QB get hurt.
Good

go back to proper offense
 
Feb 7, 2010
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the QB's getting hit is what stopped most teams running the option because some DC's told the players to hit the QB on and option and you cant get flagged because you dont know if he had the ball or not.
 

AcuteWhistle

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I think Miami has helped show how to defend against the RPO in the NFL. The Dolphins would smash the qb (even after he handed it off) because hes legitimately a potential ball carrier and no roughing the passer penalty. Mariota got knocked out of the game. And I think we'll start seeing teams do this. Soon, forcing teams to abandon the RPO last their star QB get hurt.


Is a star QB essential in to RPO heavy offence anyway? Just assemble an above average OLine, plug in a competent QB, eg Nick Foles, & away you go.
 
Sep 6, 2005
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Is a star QB essential in to RPO heavy offence anyway? Just assemble an above average OLine, plug in a competent QB, eg Nick Foles, & away you go.
Unless you build a top D a d OL. It's hard to build such a great team and then rely on competent cheap QBs. Easier to find a star qb and have a few pieces around him
 
Feb 25, 2013
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Unless you build a top D a d OL. It's hard to build such a great team and then rely on competent cheap QBs. Easier to find a star qb and have a few pieces around him
If you have a great QB you don't really need to worry about RB/WR/TE's. Just get him one guy he can rely one. Put it all into O-line and defense and you will win many, many games, and playoff games
 

AcuteWhistle

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Unless you build a top D a d OL. It's hard to build such a great team and then rely on competent cheap QBs. Easier to find a star qb and have a few pieces around him

But how many legit 'star qb's' are there in the league at any one time? a handful at best. Not easy to find one & then keep him healthy & why we see, for example, team after team after team piss good money away on Sam Bradford.

Agree it's not easy to build very good ol/dl but it sure is an easier job if you have most of that juicy franchise qb money to play with;)
 
Sep 6, 2005
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But how many legit 'star qb's' are there in the league at any one time? a handful at best. Not easy to find one & then keep him healthy & why we see, for example, team after team after team piss good money away on Sam Bradford.

Agree it's not easy to build very good ol/dl but it sure is an easier job if you have most of that juicy franchise qb money to play with;)
Guaranteed SB win if you can.... eagles, Broncos, Seahawks, ravens, Buccaneers, Ravens, Bears, Steelersx4 etc

But takes a lot of time and effort. Texans failed winning one. Vikings failed.

The majority of the time it's teams with a star qb.
 
Sep 6, 2005
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Philly Special Effect: Touchdown passes from position players to QBs on the rise
Posted by Michael David Smith on December 30, 2018, 9:26 PM EST
GettyImages-1075954136-e1546223204228.jpg

Getty Images

The Eagles scored one of the most famous touchdowns in NFL history when tight end Trey Burton threw to quarterback Nick Foles in the end zone in the Super Bowl last season. The NFL is a copycat league, and this year plenty of teams emulated the Eagles.

In fact, there were 13 touchdown passes thrown by non-quarterbacks this season, the most in a single season in 35 years. Three of those passes came today, when Falcons wide receiver Mohamed Sanu, Dolphins receiver Kenny Stills and Lions kicker Matt Prater all threw touchdown passes.

Like the Philly Special, two of those touchdowns were to quarterbacks, with Sanu hitting Matt Ryan and Stills hitting Ryan Tannehill. Today was the first day in the Super Bowl era that two different quarterbacks caught touchdown passes.

The Philly Special is becoming so ubiquitous that defenses should be catching on, and soon quarterbacks won’t be left open on those trick plays. But for now, the Philly Special one of the most effective — and most fun — plays in football.
 
Sep 6, 2005
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Wave of the future. Teams are aligning their super bowl windows around rookie quarterback contracts.....

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter

There are six starting QBs in 2018 Playoffs who are 25 or younger: Dak Prescott, Jared Goff, Mitchell Trubisky, Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson. That’s the most QBs 25 or younger in a single postseason in NFL history, per @EliasSports.

Cousins getting $30m, Case Keenum, even backups like Mike Glennon. Derek Carr prohibiting the Raiders from re-signing Mack. Etc. There are many examples of NFL clubs forced into shelling out big money for average QBs and suffering on the defensive side of the roster.

As long as they're handing it out, then a QB should put his hand out. But I think that well could be drying up in the near future. All those QBs will be pushed out to the XFL, AAFL, FFL, as more and more teams go the rookie QB way.....and....there'll be some kind of new QB salary scale imo to combat the rising prohibitive costs of QBs especially.

Not sure if the Seahawks started that economic trend, they could've. But the methodology of a top D + run game + capable game-managing QB as a formula to win the Lombardi has been around for as long as the Super Bowl has been around.

Someone like Aaron Rodgers is one of the biggest me-first players in the league. He needs a whole OL upgrade, and some key defensive players, but good luck getting him to renegotiate. Carr already showed he doesn't care either not helping to get Mack re-signed.

Every end of season now, I see tweets and discussions where teams are up against the cap due to prohibitive QB cost, and having to finagle cap space, make players renegotiate contracts, otherwise be forced to let go their better players --- on defense!

I reckon there could be a renaissance in salary pay scales. Tho the cap keeps rising, teams are struggling to field good teams with non-rookie QBs, and the standard of NFL games will suffer, which isn't good for the NFL product either.

They've tipped the scale so far that teams figured out they could get away with s**t QB's and build up their defenses with the extra money. I guess it's the natural reaction to making the game so easy for the offense. Waiting for the truly innovative coach and player that turns a RB that throws the ball 10+ times a game as the main player of the offense??

That team already exists.....Baltimore Ravens and Lamar Jackson.

What the Ravens are doing is also bringing back old formations and ideas. Double Wing, Wishbone type stuff. Where there's a lot of motions and pulls, misdirection, as well as zero splits in the OL (no 1 yard gap between the OL) because from the back-end, the D's perspective, it's next to impossible to see who has the ball and what is really happening.

You can pull up some Double Wing youtube videos and see how it works.

If we win the Super Bowl this season, I can see it as a watershed moment yet again, where what's old is new again. Teams looking at loading up the RB depth chart, have about 4 or 5 guys there on the cheap who can tap in and tap out as they tire, also with different running styles (power backs and scat backs), as well as potentially have like a four or five deep QB depth chart, cheap but skilled ball-runners, rotate them in and out as well. Invest top money into the defensive side of the roster, and utilize the old three yards and a cloud of dust approach to winning.
 
Sep 6, 2005
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Our defense is strong because we're able to afford them, not let them go, too. If you keep hacking away at your defensive roster so you can afford that $25m a year QB, which are rare to come by, then your D will suffer. Seems easier to invest on multiple defensive players and get by on offense with some creativity. The prevailing thought has been to find that great QB and pair him with a great HC for 10+ years, build around them, adding pieces here and there, letting them go when they get too cost prohibitive, as long as you keep that $25m QB. But that Belichick-Brady dynamic is rare also in terms of how Bill is also the GM in a club with a very simplistic old-style front office....only the owner and the HC/GM who answers to him. Most clubs these days have ten million moving parts in the front office, people doing all different things and answerable to different people, it creates a lot of dysfunction and power struggles. There arent going to be tons of Belichick's around. So a HC+QB duo isn't going to happen a lot.

Again, seems like the old more simpler styles of things could be back in vogue. Simpler front offices....simpler defensive schemes utilizing your players strengths and not complicating things that makes it hard for the younger players to just get out there and do their thing....simpler play calls away from the old WCO terminologies, etc etc.

Our D has a lot of talent on it, but we blitz a damn lot and disguise it well with that "Double A" approach, where everyone loads the box, shows blitz, and good luck figuring out who is coming and who is dropping back. There are DCs out there who over-complicate things and they don't get the most out of their players. We're fortunate that we have very smart coaches and front office people.
 
Sep 6, 2005
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There are 32 starting QBs at any time. Only about 12 of them can be considered having a passing grade. So there are about 20 QBs who are average to below-average. That’s a brutal curve. That reality or grading scale of QBs is wildly disproportionate, especially when they are all getting financially rewarded for failure. There is no merit to this system. You just need to be better than the bottom half and you are set for life. If teams keep setting up bad quarterbacks and justifying it only because “there’s not much else out there” then they are just setting themselves up for failure, their own lost jobs. Something has to give one way or the other. I'm guessing it'll be a renaissance of offensive thinking in lieu of further dwindling QB college stocks and rising prohibitive costs of even average QBs.
 
Apr 11, 2002
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There are 32 starting QBs at any time. Only about 12 of them can be considered having a passing grade. So there are about 20 QBs who are average to below-average. That’s a brutal curve. That reality or grading scale of QBs is wildly disproportionate, especially when they are all getting financially rewarded for failure. There is no merit to this system. You just need to be better than the bottom half and you are set for life. If teams keep setting up bad quarterbacks and justifying it only because “there’s not much else out there” then they are just setting themselves up for failure, their own lost jobs. Something has to give one way or the other. I'm guessing it'll be a renaissance of offensive thinking in lieu of further dwindling QB college stocks and rising prohibitive costs of even average QBs.


But how many of these so called below par QB's are simply being mismanaged? Hue Jackson was clearly an incompetent but allowed to burn through players & was on his way to ruining another until he got the sack.

I think there are plenty of NFL grade players out there that either don't get the chance or when they do, end up at some s**t show where they can never succeed.
 
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