Structural needs

[ottoman]

I know Kennedy can crumb but what is his "goal sense" like?

 

[jmac70]

I know Kennedy can crumb but what is his "goal sense" like?

He knows that a goal is equal to 6 points. Does that count?

 

[noideaatall]

We don't have a quality crumbing forward as yet. Forget defensive preassure, or rather create it via offensive pressure. Best hope is for a player like Kennedy to take the next step and become genuinely dangerous. Elliot is something else again and if coupled with a genuinely dangerous crumber could give us a potent forward line. Whilst only himself and Cloke are kicking goals we become all too defendable.

 

[ottoman]

He knows that a goal is equal to 6 points. Does that count?

He also knows a behind is equal to 1 point.

He knows that a goal is equal to 6 points. Does that count?

Unfortunately not. It's my understanding that as part of the initiation process all recruits are made aware of this obscure fact. So he is no different to any other player in this regard.
On a serious note though, I was actually asking the question because I don't know the answer. I have seen enough of Broomy to believe he has a good goal sense but I don't know about Kennedy. Is he dangerous around the forward line?

 

[bunyips_77]

I agree we need a dynamic small forward, we can get by in 2015 and will have to but this should be a priority next season.

I wonder if Scharenberg can play off a wing until he puts some more body mass on. He's also a while away, but I think he could be useful on the wing early for us maybe in a similar role to Aish this season.

I agree a small forward should be a priority for the next draft. Would love a Pickett type (who went to GWS)... or even target him when his contract is up
I also like swanny close to goal - gun.

 

[DrDavoren]

Broomhead, Kennedy and Varcoe would be my 3.

Yes Broomhead could be a great option as small forward, he looks to have great goal sense and good at the physical stuff too.
Hope he ends up something like Breust.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

Fasolo.
We seem to have forgotten how good he is in front of goal, if he gets a good solid preseason in and settles in to the 22 he can become one of the best small forwards in the game.

 

[Pendles!]

I really hope they give Kennedy a good crack at holding down that crumbing forward role, I think he can make a massive impact if given the chance.

 

[Pendles!]

Fasolo.
We seem to have forgotten how good he is in front of goal, if he gets a good solid preseason in and settles in to the 22 he can become one of the best small forwards in the game.

Fasolo is a bit more of a lead up forward than a genuine crumber though.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

Fasolo is a bit more of a lead up forward than a genuine crumber though.

I wouldn't say that at all. He's an opportunist can do both but has often crumbed goals and made something out of nothing.

 

[domin8tors]

I think Broomhead and Kennedy can assist Elliott with crumbing in the forward 50.

Agree disposal out of defense is an area requiring help as is some pace and two way running in the midfield.

Wouldn't surprise me if one of Oxley, Monteit or Maynard get an early look in to fix some of the defensive 50 disposal.

Pace will come with Freeman, Crisp and the three crumbing forwards rotating through the middle.

More endurance for Adams and Fasolo and the addition of Greenwood and Crisp should help with the two way running.

I'd actually prefer to see Broomhead up the field HFF. he has too much skill to sit in the forward pocket.

 

[rustyg70]

Our best crumbing forward is Sidebottom, but he is needed further up the ground.
Severely under rated.

 

[Justlokan]

I thiink the fixation with foot speed can be misleading. The really damaging stuff is when we can move the ball at great speed from one end to the other. And this requires nothing more than good footskills and decision making under pressure.
Hawthorn aren't exactly the fastest running side around but their ability to slice through defences with precise ball movement is what brings most sides [especially us] undone.

In 2010/11 we were renowned for our ability to move the ball by foot. (hard to believe)

If we can rediscover this skill, all the forwards have to do is take marks on the lead and kick accurately for goal.

 

[mike123]

I thiink the fixation with foot speed can be misleading. The really damaging stuff is when we can move the ball at great speed from one end to the other. And this requires nothing more than good footskills and decision making under pressure.
Hawthorn aren't exactly the fastest running side around but their ability to slice through defences with precise ball movement is what brings most sides [especially us] undone.

In 2010/11 we were renowned for our ability to move the ball by foot. (hard to believe)

If we can rediscover this skill, all the forwards have to do is take marks on the lead and kick accurately for goal.

Hawthorn aren't the fastest running but they still have good outside line breakers in Brad Hill and Isaac Smith. Port last year despite in the 2013 trade period and draft despite being a good running side lacked absolute line breakers and addressed that with nearly every pick up. One of Geelong's greatests weapons was its speed down the highway when all there speedy high half forwards in Duncan, Motlop, Murdoch, Christensen and Varcoe would push up the ground then and then sprint back down and catch oppositions out. With them losing Varcoe and Christensen this year the made an effort to get back speed by picking up Sam Blease and using it first pick on Nakia Cockatoo.

And this requires nothing more than good footskills and decision making under pressure

No it requires more. When you have the ball on the fast break there aren't always obvious options you can pass to and it takes time to find that right option. You need the ability to tuck the ball under your arm and run. When you get the ball and start running it forces the the defenders in front of you to come to you as the oppositions players behind won't catch you because of your speed. Once you draw the opposition player then there is a free option in front of you, this effect is usually called overlap. You need speed to start overlap run.

 

[Gone Critical]

Fasolo.
We seem to have forgotten how good he is in front of goal, if he gets a good solid preseason in and settles in to the 22 he can become one of the best small forwards in the game.

I really hope they give Kennedy a good crack at holding down that crumbing forward role, I think he can make a massive impact if given the chance.

Agree with this. Fasolo is fit so far and if he holds a preseason together I see he and Elliott being a real handful to manage around the forward line . Both know where the goals are and both a dangerous in the air for their size. Kennedy I can see as the ground level small forward who creates opportunities. Throw in Blair for the grunt and defensive work as well as an improved goal kicking ability compared to 2014 and we have the essence of our small medium forward line. Throw in the work of Cloke, Reid, and either White or the resting ruck and we can de dangerous

 

[well left]

I'd actually prefer to see Broomhead up the field HFF. he has too much skill to sit in the forward pocket.

Yeah I agree but I think we will see players like Broomy, Elliott, Fasolo and Kennedy rotating through the middle, forward flank and the pocket.

Broomy showed last year from a flank he has the ability to read off the pack at CHF and kick goals.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

I thiink the fixation with foot speed can be misleading. The really damaging stuff is when we can move the ball at great speed from one end to the other. And this requires nothing more than good footskills and decision making under pressure.
Hawthorn aren't exactly the fastest running side around but their ability to slice through defences with precise ball movement is what brings most sides [especially us] undone.

In 2010/11 we were renowned for our ability to move the ball by foot. (hard to believe)

If we can rediscover this skill, all the forwards have to do is take marks on the lead and kick accurately for goal.

I wouldn't say that.
To move the ball end to end like that, you need 3-5 players at least who have both the burst speed and fitness to get some distance on their opponent to receive a clean pass without being spoiled and continue the forward drive.
It also requires well practised formations and structures so that players know how to move in pattern to facilitate these clean passes. The teams that have done this best like Geelong, Hawthorn and sydney tear teams apart by streaming forward, spreading, and having those rugby type running formations where once the player with ball in hand needs to dispose they can offload to the next runner to the side or behind who continues moving forward.
That requires fitness and speed and effective ball use, as well as decision making, composure and intelligence.

 

[Pendles!]

I wouldn't say that.
To move the ball end to end like that, you need 3-5 players at least who have both the burst speed and fitness to get some distance on their opponent to receive a clean pass without being spoiled and continue the forward drive.
It also requires well practised formations and structures so that players know how to move in pattern to facilitate these clean passes. The teams that have done this best like Geelong, Hawthorn and sydney tear teams apart by streaming forward, spreading, and having those rugby type running formations where once the player with ball in hand needs to dispose they can offload to the next runner to the side or behind who continues moving forward.
That requires fitness and speed and effective ball use, as well as decision making, composure and intelligence.

Teams like hawthorn and Geelong have relied much more on their foot skills than pace in my opinion. I agree with the other poster in that a quick footy mind and precise foot skills is probably more important than pace.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

Teams like hawthorn and Geelong have relied much more on their foot skills than pace in my opinion. I agree with the other poster in that a quick footy mind and precise foot skills is probably more important than pace.

Footskils don't help much if your target isn't clear of their opponent. hawthorn and Geelong both rely on pace and fitness to find space to receive. They have a lot more going on than just footskils, they have the complete package.

 

[Pendles!]

Footskils don't help much if your target isn't clear of their opponent. hawthorn and Geelong both rely on pace and fitness to find space to receive. They have a lot more going on than just footskils, they have the complete package.

If we're talking teams in their prime then current day Geelong aren't the best example. Geelong at their best were known for their foot skills, but pace was never a strength. They had one regular who was fast and that was Wojo.

Even Hawthorn these days rely on foot skills rather than pace. Hill and Smith are the only two genuine speedsters.

 

[mike123]

If we're talking teams in their prime then current day Geelong aren't the best example. Geelong at their best were known for their foot skills, but pace was never a strength. They had one regular who was fast and that was Wojo.

Even Hawthorn these days rely on foot skills rather than pace. Hill and Smith are the only two genuine speedsters.

Hill and Smith are the 2 genuine outside runners but they also have Rioli, Breust, Burgoyne, Suckling and Stratton with speed.

 

[ride56]

Agree. Broomhead looks like he has a lot of class and goal smarts. Like Sidey who is an awesome small forward but we need him in the middle. He will make a great half forward and move into the middle. Fasolo is also a Didsy type player and is better suited to the forward role.

 

[Justlokan]

Hill and Smith are the 2 genuine outside runners but they also have Rioli, Breust, Burgoyne, Suckling and Stratton with speed.

in 2014 we had Sinclair, Toovey and Lumumba who had very very good foot speed. However, their less than average footskills meant that the ball was often moving very fast...the other way.

The hawthorn players you listed above (you can add Birchall) have one other thing in common that is of even better value than foot speed - excellent decision making and the ability to find team mates.

As a leading forward, getting separation from your opponent isn't that hard if you can anticipate where your team mate is going to lead to and be confident they can get it to you. How many times do we see Cloke lead, only to have to double back because the kick comes in (a) too slow (b) too high (c) to the wrong spot (d) all of the above.

I'm not saying we should totally ignore foot speed but I'd prefer someone who had a quick brain and had the foot skills to execute (eg Mitchell, Bartel, Hodge, Pendlebury)

 

[Collingwoodity]

Betts is a very good player and has had a fine career. I just think/hope that Fasolo will have a break out year.

Nothing gives me confidence that Fasolo will pull his finger out. Yes, he can kick 5 one game and do nothing the next 4 games. But Betts is far more consistent than that. Yes he stinks like Carlton but still a better player.

 

[Robroy22]

in 2014 we had Sinclair, Toovey and Lumumba who had very very good foot speed. However, their less than average footskills meant that the ball was often moving very fast...the other way.

The hawthorn players you listed above (you can add Birchall) have one other thing in common that is of even better value than foot speed - excellent decision making and the ability to find team mates.

As a leading forward, getting separation from your opponent isn't that hard if you can anticipate where your team mate is going to lead to and be confident they can get it to you. How many times do we see Cloke lead, only to have to double back because the kick comes in (a) too slow (b) too high (c) to the wrong spot (d) all of the above.

I'm not saying we should totally ignore foot speed but I'd prefer someone who had a quick brain and had the foot skills to execute (eg Mitchell, Bartel, Hodge, Pendlebury)

I think you're too smart for this site.... seriously stop it! You make too much sense and say nothing that's controversial, that's hardly the BF way.
(Good onya mate)