Structural needs

mike123 · Jan 4, 2015

jmac70 said:
The club agrees with me. He may struggle to get back into your view of the side, but in reality he will be straight back in.

My point by the time Maccaffer is fit, Adams, Freeman, De Goey, Kennedy, Broomhead might have already gone ahead of him. Its no certainty that Maccaffer gets his spot back.

jmac70 · Jan 5, 2015

mike123 said:
Anything else you crystal ball can tell us?

It's hardly a crystal ball. Caff has worked hard to reinvent himself as one of the best taggers in the game, evidenced by some of the great jobs he did last season. Clearly the club rates him very highly given his Copeland finish. We are a young team in desperate need of mature bodies. If you think we can afford to leave out Caff then it is you who have been gazing too long at a crystal ball.

mike123 · Jan 5, 2015

jmac70 said:
It's hardly a crystal ball. Caff has worked hard to reinvent himself as one of the best taggers in the game, evidenced by some of the great jobs he did last season. Clearly the club rates him very highly given his Copeland finish. We are a young team in desperate need of mature bodies. If you think we can afford to leave out Caff then it is you who have been gazing too long at a crystal ball.

Things is I haven't ruled out the possibility of Caff playing, weather you think its impossible that young players could overtake him.

jmac70 · Jan 5, 2015

mike123 said:
Things is I haven't ruled out the possibility of Caff playing, weather you think its impossible that young players could overtake him.

Caff is a tagger. It's a role that requires great discipline, not to mention enormous strength. Which young player do you think could do a better job as a tagger in 2015?

mike123 · Jan 5, 2015

jmac70 said:
Caff is a tagger. It's a role that requires great discipline, not to mention enormous strength. Which young player do you think could do a better job as a tagger in 2015?

Levi Greenwood. He also does something Caff can't, win his own ball.

jmac70 · Jan 5, 2015

mike123 said:
Levi Greenwood. He also does something Caff can't, win his own ball.

Here was I thinking we recruited him to replace Beams.

mike123 · Jan 7, 2015

jmac70 said:
Here was I thinking we recruited him to replace Beams.

Hine even said Greenwood would do some tagging jobs.

jmac70 · Jan 7, 2015

mike123 said:
Hine even said Greenwood would do some tagging jobs.

Teams have been known to give more than one player the job of negating an opposition player. Regardless, your post that I originally responded to did not mention Greenwood. You have added him in to suit your arguement.

mike123 · Jan 7, 2015

jmac70 said:
Teams have been known to give more than one player the job of negating an opposition player.

Teams have been known not to have a tagger as well. I like Greenwood because we don't always have to use him as a tagger. We do with Maccaffer and when he loses his tag he becomes useless and we virtually play a man down.

Regardless, your post that I originally responded to did not mention Greenwood. You have added him in to suit your arguement.

mike123 said:
I think the problem with our clearances was that out main midfield combination was Beams, Pendlebury and Maccaffer. Maccaffer's inability to win his own ball made us at times one midfielder down, Beams and Pendlebury aren't quite the in and under extractors like Luke Ball who cooked all year and spent most of his time forward and Taylor Adams who was either in the VFL or in the backline and when we finally gave him some centre square time and his form picked up he got injured. I think with Greenwood coming in Swan uninjured Taylor Adams coming back and Maccaffer out of our midfield we should be better around clearances.

Collingwoodity · Jan 7, 2015

MacCaffer should play as a 3rd marking forward instead of Jesse White. He is no worse than White, can kick straight and knows how to do it because he did do it.

He should then move into the middle if someone is getting off the leash or we have injuries.

noideaatall · Jan 7, 2015

Jelly Bean said:
It would be interesting analysis to do actually (if anyone had the time...).
Look at the relationship per game between hitouts and clearances. As hitouts goes up, does that mean that clearances tend to go up proportionately? It would also be worth doing with hitouts to advantage as well.
And also looking at the leading clearance teams. Do they also lead the hitouts? I suspect not.

Same, always interested me. Not simple. Look at our 2002/3 team - so strong in the centre but not necessarily in hitouts. One thing I have wondered is if its better to either win a lot of hitouts to advantage - so players know to expect the ball down their throat - compared to a fifty fifty situation. Problem is if you know you are going to win so do the opposition - look at Freo with Sandilands.

I don't like lecafe in the centre. Too defensive, may reduce opposition wins but that still leaves a fifty fifty ball most times. Need winners in the centre, run with players coming in after the bounce.

Jelly Bean · Jan 7, 2015

Christ_JM said:
MacCaffer should play as a 3rd marking forward instead of Jesse White. He is no worse than White, can kick straight and knows how to do it because he did do it.

He should then move into the middle if someone is getting off the leash or we have injuries.

He would struggle as the back-up ruck though - which is a key part of White's role in the team...

Collingwoodity · Jan 8, 2015

Jelly Bean said:
He would struggle as the back-up ruck though - which is a key part of White's role in the team...

Grundy and Witts will both be playing most games. We don't need a back up ruckman.

ClaytonM · Jan 8, 2015

Christ_JM said:
Grundy and Witts will both be playing most games. We don't need a back up ruckman.

Not sure this will be the case unless one of them at least can become a dangerous forward option. I hope they do but I am not confident it will happen in 2015.

Otherwise it will be White or at a real stretch Gault.

didaksrightfoot · Jan 8, 2015

ClaytonM said:
Not sure this will be the case unless one of them at least can become a dangerous forward option. I hope they do but I am not confident it will happen in 2015.

Otherwise it will be White or at a real stretch Gault.

Yeah I think it will continue to be horses-for-courses.
Witts and Grundy aren't yet at the point where the advantage in the ruck of playing them both together outweighs the negative of having one as a 3rd forward. (And unfortunately, in 2014, Witts was the better player in both roles)... and to be honest, playing them both together hasn't actually led to better results in the ruck.

White will continue to be used as the back-up ruck for at least some games next year, and I personally thought that some of his best stretches last year came in the Ruck when he effectively became an extra midfielder late in a game.

I am still hopeful that within a couple of years Witts/Grundy can start to become a dominant ruck pair, but we aren't there yet and need to continue with this type of rotation.

rustyg70 · Jan 8, 2015

I'd say Reids fitness holds the key as to who will be our 3rd tall/2nd ruckman.

DrDavoren · Jan 8, 2015

mike123 said:
My point by the time Maccaffer is fit, Adams, Freeman, De Goey, Kennedy, Broomhead might have already gone ahead of him. Its no certainty that Maccaffer gets his spot back.

Le Caff may need to re-reinvent his game if that's the case, could see him as a close checking defender for players like Wingard and Breust, we seem to struggle with these types and he has good size and strength to be an option.

jmac70 · Jan 8, 2015

DrDavoren said:
Le Caff may need to re-reinvent his game if that's the case, could see him as a close checking defender for players like Wingard and Breust, we seem to struggle with these types and he has good size and strength to be an option.

The thing with Caff is that he is a heart and sole player. No matter how many classy users a team has there will always be a place for guys like Caff. He will do whatever it takes to stay in the team.

ace andy · Jan 8, 2015

Christ_JM said:
MacCaffer should play as a 3rd marking forward instead of Jesse White. He is no worse than White, can kick straight and knows how to do it because he did do it.

He should then move into the middle if someone is getting off the leash or we have injuries.

Don't have any stats to back this up but from memory apart from MacCaffers purple patch in 2010 he is a pretty crap shot at goal in the seniors. I realise he was drafted as a full forward but I don't feel comfortable with him shooting unless its a snap.

And apart from that run of a dozen 2010 games where he was valuable he did nothing until this year. We were all waiting for him to resume that dangerous forward who also shut down rebounders but it seemed he had lost the ability. Bucks persisted and now he is a tagger (mainly due to failing as a forward and a back after coming back from his injury) and to be honest I don't see him ever becoming anything else now.

ace andy · Jan 8, 2015

jmac70 said:
The thing with Caff is that he is a heart and sole player. No matter how many classy users a team has there will always be a place for guys like Caff. He will do whatever it takes to stay in the team.

The coach loves him and I admit a good tagger is valuable but I don't really like the idea of playing pure taggers anymore. If he was a ling type I wouldn't have a problem with it though.

Schraderbrau · Jan 10, 2015

The long term value of getting senior games into Witts and Grundy is a better solution to the alternative of playing Jessie White as second ruck. Furthermore if Witts continues improving at his current rate, in 2015 he will probably be a better forward target than White anyhow. Lastly, a lot of people want to see Cloke spending more time at true chf, Witts at ff could accommodate this whereas I don't think White does FF very well at all.

Prochard123 · Jan 10, 2015

I hope Greenwood play predominantly as a pure inside player as opposed to a run with player who can get the pill a few times

mike123 · Jan 10, 2015

Prochard123 said:
I hope Greenwood play predominantly as a pure inside player as opposed to a run with player who can get the pill a few times

I'd hope this too and worry about a tagger and only use him in that role if we need him to.

domin8tors · Jan 19, 2015

1. Where will we finish on the ladder? 7 -8
2. B&F winner? Dane Swan
3. Which first year player (drafted in 2014) will play the most games? The Goo
4. Leading goalkicker? Cloke
5. Who will be selected in the AA team? Pendles, Sidebottom, Swan, elliott
6. Most improved player? Williams
7. Who will earn Rising Star nominations? Freeman
8. Most Brownlow votes? Swan
9. Who will retire? no one
10. Who will be delisted? 4 players
11. Which 2014 recruit will perform the best? Varcoe
12. VFL B&F winner? Sam Dwyer
13. More or less injuries than in 2014? Less
15. How many times will we beat a top 4 side? 3
16. Will GWS get their first win against us? no
17. Who will finish top 5 in our B&F? Swan, Pendles, Sidebottom, Crisp, Elliott
18. Will we beat Brisbane round 1? Yes 31 points
19. Will Dane Swan improve on his 2014 form? Yes
20. How many goals will Cloke kick? 65
14. Which player will change position? Williams ( tagger )

mike123 · Jan 19, 2015

Sorry but your in the wrong thread

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