TV Succession

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Poetic Justice

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Also, you can really tell that Logan's parenting (or lack thereof) has really f’ed the kids. It's why they're the way they are. I don't know if the show is saying that Shiv's deal was a bad one, just that Logan didn't care for it. But it's telling that when Shiv asks him what he would have done he doesn't have an actual answer.
He's basically being narcissistic to the point of saying "I don't like your call because it wasn't my call"

Hence why while he's still alive/capacitated, no one could become a suitable successor to him within the family, or anyone for that matter really.
 

Sweet Jesus

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That sixth episode was a bit strange. Very little actually happened. I guess they were just setting up the GOP primary, which is obviously going to be a big part of the context/subplot of whatever comes next.
 

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Too much of the show just in a couple of rooms again. Maybe locations were restricted due to Covid.

But plenty of good stuff. Logan is back on form. He has gotten "the Raisin" to drop out of the Presidential race with less than six months to go before the election. There's no time for Republican primaries so effectively he gets to decide the nomination.

A few tense scenes
  • Logan's mind fu** of the VP.
  • Shiv not wanting to be associated with Mencken but Logan pulling her into line for the photo.
  • Kendall trying and failing to get Tom to switch sides. "My hunch is you’re going to get f’ed. Because I’ve seen you get f’ed a lot. And I’ve never seen Logan get f’ed once".
Tom also scores the best comedy moments with his preoccupation about jail.
 
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Warsaw

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Tom being the key to all of this (and giving the best performance of the season)

Roman being the most sympathetic of the siblings but also the one most likely to side with a fascist presidency.

Shiv finally realising that she'll never win over Logan but does she hate Kendall too much to side with him?

Ken spiraling - might be out of options. Is he going to confess and implicate Logan in the process.

Great ep.
 

Warsaw

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Is he?

I don't think "sympathy" is meant to be part of the equation.

If anything, Shiv is the least dysfunctional.
Judging it on a different scale to normal people, sure, but he's the only one of the Roys to have some notion of what it means to be a family.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Judging it on a different scale to normal people, sure, but he's the only one of the Roys to have some notion of what it means to be a family.
Again, really? He just knows that it doesn't pay to cross his dad.

They're all freaks. That's the point. None of them are meant to be "sympathetic" or "likeable".

There are some strange takes in this thread.
 

Bombermania

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Roman is likable but he was a total jerk to that kid, when he offered a million dollars if the kid hit a home run.

But that is where the writing is brilliant because that sort of behavior is more common among new money families like the Roys than it is among the old monied crowd that would see that behavior as vulgar and distasteful.
 

Warsaw

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Again, really? He just knows that it doesn't pay to cross his dad.

They're all freaks. That's the point. None of them are meant to be "sympathetic" or "likeable".

There are some strange takes in this thread.
No one's making out like he's some paradigm of virtue. For every moment he looks vulnerable there's another one where he'll make a quip at the expense of the girls that got raped.

But in the moments where he speaks up up against Ken taking the fall on the boat, where Ken berates Connor and he pipes up with 'hasn't he heard that enough in his life', how he reacts to Logan's illness etc...are the moments where you go there's something more there - more than what we've seen from Shiv or Ken or Connor or Logan at least.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Was listening to Kara Swisher's Succession podcast and she interviewed Anthony Scaramucci and he reckoned that Shiv is most like Logan and is the most ruthless of the children.
Well, yeah. She's also the most competent. I wish they'd given her some more obviously dysfunctional traits. Seems like they soft-pedalled it because she's a female character. Compared to her brothers, she's a Mary Sue.
 

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Sweet Jesus

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Roman is likable but he was a total jerk to that kid, when he offered a million dollars if the kid hit a home run.

But that is where the writing is brilliant because that sort of behavior is more common among new money families like the Roys than it is among the old monied crowd that would see that behavior as vulgar and distasteful.
Roman is an absolute wrong'un. He has good dialogue but does that make the character "likeable"?
 

Sweet Jesus

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No one's making out like he's some paradigm of virtue. For every moment he looks vulnerable there's another one where he'll make a quip at the expense of the girls that got raped.

But in the moments where he speaks up up against Ken taking the fall on the boat, where Ken berates Connor and he pipes up with 'hasn't he heard that enough in his life', how he reacts to Logan's illness etc...are the moments where you go there's something more there - more than what we've seen from Shiv or Ken or Connor or Logan at least.
Jesus, that's generous.
 

Warsaw

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Jesus, that's generous.
lol, think you might be too fixated on labelling everyone as unlikeable that when any actual normal character traits make an appearance, you can't register it.

Regardless, it's not that interesting to argue about whether a campaigner can also sometimes have feelings.
 

Sweet Jesus

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We judge all the characters on their lines.
Yeah, so he has well-written, snappy one-liners. That's not the same as a character being "likeable".

Have you guys seen Jesse Armstrong's previous work in Peep Show? You guys may as well be talking about who's more "likeable" out of Jez and Mark.

Not all TV shows include characters that the audience is meant to be rooting for. You guys are scraping the barrel to find a character who is "likeable", but that's not the point of Succession. Rather, it's a finely sketched portait of dysfunction that is cringe-inducing and hilarious at the same time. All the characters are meant to be awful in different ways.
 

Sweet Jesus

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lol, think you might be too fixated on labelling everyone as unlikeable that when any actual normal character traits make an appearance, you can't register it.

Regardless, it's not that interesting to argue about whether a campaigner can also sometimes have feelings.
Or maybe you're so basic and fixated on indentifying a "likeable" character that you're missing the point.

It's not Friends. There's no Joey. Will you be OK?
 
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Warsaw

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Or maybe you're so basic and fixated on indentifying a "likeable" character that you're missing the point.

It's not Friends. There's no Joey. Will you be OK?
You're building strawmen after strawmen. No idea what you're even responding to.

But uhh go off.


Georgia Pritchett (writer/producer): There was definitely a part of me that thought, why do I want to write about these awful, rich, evil white men who are poisoning society? But having to really dig deep into the characters to find their humanity was an exciting challenge. I’ve always had a soft spot for Roman [played by Kieran Culkin], which is concerning. There’s something about that evil little pixie that I really do love.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Warsaw

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What's your point?

Also, what's the strawman? Are you sure you're using that word correctly?
I love how saying Roman might be the most sympathetic of what are obviously four obviously narcissistic, damaged characters, has elicited this kind of a response. Never argued Roman was likeable, literally the OP has me calling them rich assholes, but [insert] free website dot com.
 

Sweet Jesus

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I love how saying Roman might be the most sympathetic of what are obviously four obviously narcissistic, damaged characters, has elicited this kind of a response. Never argued Roman was likeable, literally the OP has me calling them rich assholes, but [insert] free website dot com.
You love it?
 

Poetic Justice

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Was listening to Kara Swisher's Succession podcast and she interviewed Anthony Scaramucci and he reckoned that Shiv is most like Logan and is the most ruthless of the children.
My take is that the problem with Shiv is that she is self serving. Every move she makes is to promote her own brand.

Logan is an old school hard ass that cares about the success of his empire which then allows for personal success as a consequence. He'd be more interested in the legacy and by his age, his wealth is not something he probably thinks much about.

By comparison:

Roman comes across as caring more about the big picture and perhaps somewhat similar to Logan that if the business and the family succeed he will benefit from the spoils (ie; the personal jet comment and how that is an impingement on the wider group rather than himself personally.)

Kendall comes across as wanting to be the hero or the person that they'll tell stories about being a saviour and all great leader which has shown little by way of being able to accomplish long term
 

Seeds

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Current characters from most hated to least


1. Shiv (she is such a self centred hypocritical idiot)
2. Greg
3. roman (just grouse, a bit dim and 100 percent machavalian)
4. Tom (if he got rid of shiv he would be more likable)
5. logan
6. kendall
7. Jerrie (who doesnt love jerrie excluding her treachory to kendall in season 1 but other than that).
 

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