Suicide

[Gough]

Many years ago now, but I've thought about it, I've planned it, I've had a belt round my neck. But I couldn't go through with it. I would have been leaving too much and too many behind, rationally, my life just wasn't that bad. I shudder to think how low someone who actually goes through with it must be feeling.

 

[Bombers 2003]

Waste of good scotch.

also a waste of a handful of pills

 

[mantis]

I hope that nobody who relies on you actually ends up in a situation where they are depressed enough for suicide to be a serious option.

Having someone in your life like him, would make you want to top yourself.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Oh please, everyone has a sob story to tell. Some just deal with shit better.

I have suicidal thoughts myself, but i wouldnt act on them. Life is up and down, most people deal with it.

I had to listen to a family friend share her sob story and depress everyone at a party last weekend. I wanted to hand the bith some ratsack. Its not my problem shes a drunk and her babys all screwed up and her BF left her. Its only a matter of time but at least she wont ruin any more of my sundays.

Spoilt bitches that make shit life decisions are not worthy of my compassion.

Have dealt with many suicidal people in my time and there is some shit that very few can deal with

 

[vealesy]

Have dealt with many suicidal people in my time and there is some shit that very few can deal with

Thats fair enough. Theres a lot of ****ed up people out there that trigger suicidal emotions in once healthy people. I am capable of empathy, more than most, which is why I detest depressingly suicidal personalities.

There are PLENTY of avenues of help these days. Its not a taboo subject like 'back in the day'.

If people get to the stage of going through with it without even seeking help, then so be it. They are gutless. Or stupid.

Re Mantis, right back at ya hunny.

 

[Caesar]

You realise seeking help doesn't always = solution, right?

 

[vealesy]

So wtf do they want?

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Thats fair enough. Theres a lot of screwed up people out there that trigger suicidal emotions in once healthy people. I am capable of empathy, more than most, which is why I detest depressingly suicidal personalities.

There are PLENTY of avenues of help these days. Its not a taboo subject like 'back in the day'.

If people get to the stage of going through with it without even seeking help, then so be it. They are gutless. Or stupid.

Re Mantis, right back at ya hunny.

You're probably referring to these folk

http://www.borderlinepersonalitydisorder.com.au/

Difficult to work with clinically, a ****in' nightmare if family or friend

 

[Caesar]

What do you mean, what do they want?

You seem to think that if someone is suicidal and seeks help, then they are guaranteed to get better. It displays a poor understanding of the illness.

 

[vealesy]

Yeh sounds about right.

They shit me because they dump all their shit on you for attention. I detatch myself from people like that pretty quickly, it never ends up well for anyone involved.

Hence why I have no problem with them offing themselves.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

What do you mean, what do they want?

You seem to think that if someone is suicidal and seeks help, then they are guaranteed to get better. It displays a poor understanding of the illness.

Not guaranteed Caesar, bot a lot more likely

 

[vealesy]

What do you mean, what do they want?

You seem to think that if someone is suicidal and seeks help, then they are guaranteed to get better. It displays a poor understanding of the illness.

Well if they dont get better then they should just **** off and die instead of spreading their misery and pain.

 

[fairdinkum]

Although I'm not entirely convinced the premise is true, explain why you believe your assertion.

Which 'premise' and which 'assertion'?

 

[lepregnome]

Well if they dont get better then they should just **** off and die instead of spreading their misery and pain.

you are a bad person and should feel bad

 

[vealesy]

you are a bad person and should feel bad

I feel ****ing great.

 

[Caesar]

Well if they dont get better then they should just **** off and die instead of spreading their misery and pain.

Which is what they are doing. So why are they gutless?

Not guaranteed Caesar, bot a lot more likely

No doubt. I guess my view is skewed by the fact that the people I know who have committed suicide have done so after years, if not decades, of battling depression. They had sought help and spent massive amounts of money and time trying to get better and still failed - so who am I to say that their condition was curable? I want to think that there is always an alternative to suicide, but it's not something I feel I am really in a position to judge.

 

[vealesy]

Gutless for giving up on life, which can suck, but in general, is pretty amazing.

These people are gutless because they have given up on their friends and family and themselves.

They are no loss to our species.

 

[mantis]

I feel ******* great.

Don't feed the troll.

 

[CrippsonBlue]

Which 'premise' and which 'assertion'?

premise - people do not from commit suicide due to the people they will leave behind.

assertion - nothing can be 'left behind'

Unless I've mistaken your post, I'd be interested in knowing why you think this.

For instance, you can 'leave behind' debt/income problems for your family by the loss of your salary.

 

[Caesar]

FD is being an existential smartass.

 

[fairdinkum]

premise - people do not from commit suicide due to the people they will leave behind.

How could you disagree with this premise? Several people in this very thread have stated that they have abstained from suicide due to the people they believe they will 'leave behind'.

assertion - nothing can be 'left behind'

I've already posted a link to a very useful wiki page for anybody interested in anything to do with life/death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism

Basically, it seems to me that the only way that one could fear the 'consequences' for their loved ones of their passing is if they believe in a dualistic conception of their own existence. That is, they believe the 'universe' is something distinct from them, something which existed more or less as it is before they were born and will exist more or less as it is once they are dead.

I find such a conception of ones existence utterly absurd, and it still surprises me somewhat that seemingly-intelligent people can buy into it if they have given the matter any real thought (pun not intended).

Before you ask how else one could conceive of their own existence, read that link above. The tl;dr is that an alternative belief to the dualistic framework posited above is that our relationship with the 'universe' (which includes our loved ones) is entirely codependent (for want of better word). As radical as it might sound (especially to those who have never attempted to study ontology), some people - and this includes me - believe that what we know as the 'universe' is entirely dependent on our own subjective experience and therefore the idea that there is anything to be 'left behind' should we 'disappear' is unintelligible on a number of levels.

Before any turkeys come along and try to tear down anything I have written above (as it is a very brief explanation of a very deep topic), I will be more than happy to continue the minutiae of this tangent in the conversation in a dedicated thread. What I have posted above is simply meant to aid people like ppg05 who probably had no idea what the hell I was talking about in my earlier post. I'm not even in the ballpark of expert ontologist but I think what I posted above is a sufficient explanation (of my own beliefs) for this thread.

 

[CrippsonBlue]

How could you disagree with this premise?

It was more just a side thought, but if you don't commit suicide I'm not sure you can definitively say it is due to leaving people behind as opposed to simply not being prepared to go through with it.

What I have posted above is simply meant to aid people like ppg05 who probably had no idea what the hell I was talking about in my earlier post

Would take a fair bit of further study before being able to appreciate this train of thought, but thanks for the reply nonetheless.

 

[fairdinkum]

It was more just a side thought, but if you don't commit suicide I'm not sure you can definitively say it is due to leaving people behind as opposed to simply not being prepared to go through with it.

I think you misread my earlier post. I said something like 'It seems to me many people in this thread...'. I never made a blanket statement about why all people back down from suicide.

Would take a fair bit of further study before being able to appreciate this train of thought, but thanks for the reply nonetheless.

No worries.

 

[vealesy]

Fd in your link it states idealism rejects the idea of dualism.

You stated the opposite.

 

[lepregnome]

It was more just a side thought, but if you don't commit suicide I'm not sure you can definitively say it is due to leaving people behind as opposed to simply not being prepared to go through with it.


Would take a fair bit of further study before being able to appreciate this train of thought, but thanks for the reply nonetheless.

i'd be prepared, but not to do it to my family, or fail and end up where i work