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Suicide

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Bombers 2003 said:
huh
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Emo''s by and large chose to act in a manner that is depressing however they are not clinically depressed just behave as though they are At least I think that was his inference
 
bunsen burner said:
Can't believe you actually think this rubbish. Your nephew had depression to the point he killed himself and you and your family all think it's about you. Get your head out of your arses. No wonder he topped himself with a family of selfish self absorbed pricks like you.
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I don't give a shit what you think - You know absolutely nothing about us or our situation or the journey over many years that we all (including him) travelled to till the moment of his death and the journey that we continue on now without him in our lives. Unlike you, who hasn't walked with us on this journey, We have a very clear understanding of OUR situation and thats why I posted the opinion I did - your experience of this situation and I am presuming you have experienced it because where else would you get off labeling us as self absorbed, may have been totally different and that's why you have the opinion you do and that's fine because everyone's situation is different.
 
I get fairly upset with people who put blanket judgements on suicide. Depending on the situation I guess though.

My best mate, well one of three of them, who we'd been besties with since year one, killed himself* when we were 20.

The bloke had a tortured soul due to some pretty horrific facial disfigurements. I never forget the day he told me over a beer that he'd come to terms with the fact no one was ever going to love him. I'm a fairly hard nosed sort of bloke but that really cut me deep. I remember fighting back the tears as he told me this, my arm around him.

The final two years of his life were a nightmare, even for us. His Mum was ashamed of him, and his old man had no time to spare for a child in need and, I don't think, could deal with the fact his only son was a "freak". He ended up almost entirely our, and our parents problem.

He was okay until puberty when we all started maturing and girls were getting noticed. Something clicked. He turned to booze, we all drank, but he drank differently. He basically turned into this bizarre psychopath alcoholic man, who was like talking to a complete stranger all the time.

We got him into a hospital after he started cutting himself, but not cutting like a disgruntled teen, like, he'd be laughing as he was doing it. He was in and out over the course of a year, only appearing to get more bizarre by the day, the meds doing nothing but zoning him out more. I won't get into it here, but some of the things I experienced with my mate in this state, really shocked me as to the unpredictable nature of the human brain. Really quite disturbing. And this is coming from someone who's been around the block a few times, let me tell you.

We got a call. They'd checked him out, he'd crashed at some hostel in town. There was an empty bottle of Jacks and a bottle of pills. That was that.

As hard as it was, lowering him into the ground, I remember thinking, I'll miss you old mate, but I'm glad for you, that the torture is over now, you can finally get some sleep.

Keeping this man alive was torturing a soul, beating it into the ground, it's better this way, as much as we miss our mate.

*To this day we don't know whether he did it deliberately or not, but I firmly believe he didn't.

RIP old mate.
 
Piston_Broke said:
And tip to you. The most selfish act of attention seeking, without reprisal is suicide. Its the ultimate me me me me me !!
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See this is where are you showing your ignorance and lack of understanding. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, a lot of depressed people feel they are more of a burden on their loved ones then a positive. They aren't sitting back going, 'Oh screw this. Screw everyone. I just care about me. Bah, i don't give a crap about anyone else.'
Furthermore, it's near impossible for some people with mental illness to actually think clearly and distinctly, without the crushing weight of dread washing over them.


Putting that aside though. I'm going to repeat what I said earlier in the thread:

"Someone feels like they have to end their life. Kill themselves, go against every basic instinct for survival and physically end their lives for all of eternity...and you think you can sit back and judge that? And understand how that could possibly feel? How can you ever be in a situation where you think you actually can judge what these people's lives are like."

How someone can judge a decision like choosing to end your life for all of eternity. For ever and ever. To go against every instinct of self-preservation and actually end your one life, the one life you get...how anyone can judge that or add words like 'selfish' to it is beyond me. It's really not whether or not it's selfish...the word selfish shouldn't be relevant. It just has no relevance when we are talking about people who are in such a state of mind they will end their one and only life for ever and ever and ever. You think your grief in the aftermath would be bad? Try to imagine what it'd be like to actually want to kill yourself...but you can't...Not like they do.

And the constant condemnation and judgement doesn't help people who are seriously in a bad state. It just adds more pressure and fear.
 

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placebo said:
See this is where are you showing your ignorance and lack of understanding. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, a lot of depressed people feel they are more of a burden on their loved ones then a positive. They aren't sitting back going, 'Oh screw this. Screw everyone. I just care about me. Bah, i don't give a crap about anyone else.'
Furthermore, it's near impossible for some people with mental illness to actually think clearly and distinctly, without the crushing weight of dread washing over them.


Putting that aside though. I'm going to repeat what I said earlier in the thread:

"Someone feels like they have to end their life. Kill themselves, go against every basic instinct for survival and physically end their lives for all of eternity...and you think you can sit back and judge that? And understand how that could possibly feel? How can you ever be in a situation where you think you actually can judge what these people's lives are like."

How someone can judge a decision like choosing to end your life for all of eternity. For ever and ever. To go against every instinct of self-preservation and actually end your one life, the one life you get...how anyone can judge that or add words like 'selfish' to it is beyond me. It's really not whether or not it's selfish...the word selfish shouldn't be relevant. It just has no relevance when we are talking about people who are in such a state of mind they will end their one and only life for ever and ever and ever. You think your grief in the aftermath would be bad? Try to imagine what it'd be like to actually want to kill yourself...but you can't...Not like they do.

And the constant condemnation and judgement doesn't help people who are seriously in a bad state. It just adds more pressure and fear.
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I have an opinion that stems from personal experience, nothing will ever change it, read couch potatos post above yours. It sums up a lot of my thoughts so i wont repeat them. I can judge. That is all.
 
In reference to the selfishness of it, people are seriously underestimating the depths someone generally must reach before taking their own life.

I remember when I first told a doctor I suspected I had depression, the response was 'you realise everyone goes through low points in their life'.

I think this is the common conception of things like depression - people equate it to their own low points in life to attempt to understand it, however this misconception then drives the belief that if you can't get through it you are a weak minded/selfish person etc.

I have suffered depression for years and at certain times I have reached low points in my life in which I have seriously considered suicide. This has included since I've been married and have children.

I love my family, and our life together. Furthermore I would never want to abandon them nor put them through that grief. At times I believe that is all that has stopped me from doing it - without that commitment though (which many don't have) or just general support which others don't get either, I can understand it being hard to find a reason against it during such times.

If I ever did though, to suggest it is selfish is to imply I care more about myself than my wife and kids. Anyone with kids should know how absurd this suggestion is - in fact it should highlight the seriousness of it.

If you live life void of such thoughts, be thankful rather than insinuate those that do are somehow a weaker character.
 
The immaturity and self-centred nature of certain posters in this forum is hard to comprehend.

Those who commit suicide almost always see no possible solution to the problem/s they are facing in their life. Hence the drastic measure. To sit at your computer and pontificate on whether they are "selfish" or not is so pathetic. To them the problem/s they are facing is something that seems insurmountable. They cannot deal with it. They take final steps to end it.

That said, it is not often the case that they cannot get through it. They just need support and time.

This sounds lame here, but if you are having these thoughts, call Lifeline. Seriously. Get some help now. And if you have a mate you are worried about....

http://www.livingisforeveryone.com.au/Individual-fact-sheets.html
 
What I'm finding interesting is the presumption that some posters believe that we don't understand depression and where that can take you.

All I asked for and as posted by courtjester is that you reach out for help and continue receiving that help should you be experiencing suicidal thoughts.
 
HappyChappy35 said:
There is absolutely no need to label him and his family as 'selfish' because his nephew committed suicide. They may very well have helped him and done everything in their power to prevent it from occurring.
It saddens me that some people (internet heroes) harbour attitudes like this.
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Yes there is. His nephew commits suicide and the family often bemoan (amongst others things) how their lives have been effected.

It saddens me that people have this view of people who commit suicide.

CouchPotato said:
I don't give a shit what you think - You know absolutely nothing about us
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I know you're selfish. Me me me me me.
 
bunsen burner said:
You can't get a bus and run away from depression. Depression doesn't live in someone's home town, it lives in their brain.

Imagine someone who had depression and then they won $50m in Lotto. They still got that shit in their head that makes them doubt and feel depressed. This is why you often see people with the world at their feet with depression. You can't just walk away from it.
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I don't doubt that what gives them depression stays with them, but if they are feeling like they are the cause of the problems and that is what leads them to commit suicide, there are other ways they could remove themselves from that situation. I'm responding to one particular post with that hypothetical, not the broad topic of depression and suicide.

bunsen burner said:
What? How did you work that out?

Grief, yes? Confusion, yes? "Dead person is selfish because I'm sitting here with grief"? Absolutely not.

Depression is quite well documented. There's rarely any other reason in western culture why people top themselves. Grieve at someone no longer being around, but the answers aren't exactly a massive secret.
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You are contradicting yourself in this thread. You say that people don't understand depression, and that it is natural for some people and hard to escape from.

But then you are completely shutting down anyone who feels the natural emotion of anger towards those who have committed suicide and caused their loved ones pain.

So one 'natural' state of mind is okay and acceptable despite the consequences of it being devastating at times, while another 'natural' state of mind which has little to no effect on any living persons is completely unacceptable and 'selfish'.
 
bunsen burner said:
I know you're selfish. Me me me me me.
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You bet I'm selfish

I'm selfish for wanting to see him walk into my home right now
I'm selfish for wanting to see that big smile when I open the door
I'm selfish for wanting to hear his laugh float across the room at a family gathering
I'm selfish for wanting to hug him and tell him how special he is to me
I'm selfish for wanting to hear his daughters belly laugh as he blows a raspberry on her tummy
I'm selfish for wanting to see him act the goat with his mother while she nags him


You bet your ass I'm selfish and I make no apologies to anyone for that selfishness.
 
CouchPotato said:
You bet I'm selfish

I'm selfish for wanting to see him walk into my home right now
I'm selfish for wanting to see that big smile when I open the door
I'm selfish for wanting to hear his laugh float across the room at a family gathering
I'm selfish for wanting to hug him and tell him how special he is to me
I'm selfish for wanting to hear his daughters belly laugh as he blows a raspberry on her tummy
I'm selfish for wanting to see him act the goat with his mother while she nags him


You bet your arse I'm selfish and I make no apologies to anyone for that selfishness.
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I doubt your feelings towards him are motivated by selflessness, rather the loss of someone no loner in your life would be the driving force behind these emotions

And as brutal as BB has been with arguing his case ,I for one, find it a compelling argument,although I know you dont
 

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CouchPotato said:
What I'm finding interesting is the presumption that some posters believe that we don't understand depression and where that can take you.
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I don't doubt you understand the effects of depression in a broad sense but there is a difference between that and realising that you'll never truly understand what it was like to face what these people face. The second part is why I refuse vehemently to ever judge or add phrases like 'selfish' to their situation.
 
I don't have a problem with BB having an opinion, that is what these boards are about afterall. What I do have a problem with is the attack on a personal level - the insinuation that we did nothing to help him and tbh the use of the word "topping" himself is insulting and uncalled for. I have a child of my own who fights these same demons daily and there have been times that I thought that she may not find her way back from the dark places that her mind takes her to. She speaks of the overwhelming sense of helplessness, darkness and thoughts that she has no control of but to see her in person for the most part you would only see a happy, balanced, beautiful young lady.
I have seen firsthand both with my daughter and my nephew how crippling depression can be - I have a partner who suffers severe anxiety, panic attacks and depression, so to get personal is uncalled for as every single situation is very very different. We are very aware of the battle that raged moreso than usual in those last few weeks and WHY and the toll it took on him and I believe my initial post reflected this. My comment was based not on the act itself as I can't even begin to imagine the war he raged with himself in those final moments but more some situations that have arisen since but still as a result of that death

I bought personal experienes to a thread and therefore expect different opinions just not on a personal level but each to their own. You learn from it and move on
 
It seems there are a number of posters in this thread who are only stopping themselves from ending it all because of concern for what happens to people 'left behind'.

The ontological basis underpinning this notion that anything could be 'left behind' deserves more scrutiny and is not one I share.
 
CouchPotato said:
You bet I'm selfish

I'm selfish for wanting to see him walk into my home right now
I'm selfish for wanting to see that big smile when I open the door
I'm selfish for wanting to hear his laugh float across the room at a family gathering
I'm selfish for wanting to hug him and tell him how special he is to me
I'm selfish for wanting to hear his daughters belly laugh as he blows a raspberry on her tummy
I'm selfish for wanting to see him act the goat with his mother while she nags him


You bet your arse I'm selfish and I make no apologies to anyone for that selfishness.
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Such are the burdens of a functioning nervous system.

fairdinkum said:
It seems there are a number of posters in this thread who are only stopping themselves from ending it all because of concern for what happens to people 'left behind'.

The ontological basis underpinning this notion that anything could be 'left behind' deserves more scrutiny and is not one I share.
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Very good.

"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."
 
CouchPotato said:
What I'm finding interesting is the presumption that some posters believe that we don't understand depression and where that can take you.
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You are giving a good impression of not understanding.

You are framing the choice as being between getting help to get better (unselfish) and killing oneself (selfish, 'easy way out'). You will not find a single person who would rather die than get better. People kill themselves not because getting better is too much like hard work, but because they have got to the point where they believe with every fibre of their being that getting better is not a possibility. Because they believe themselves too sick, too weak-willed, too far gone, too whatever.

You seem not to realise that for someone to get to the point where they are willing to end their own life, getting better is as insurmountable an obstacle as if I asked you to run the 100m in a sub 10 second time. That is their reality that they are living in. If someone dies because of inhabiting that reality, they are to be pitied - not blamed.
 
fairdinkum said:
It seems there are a number of posters in this thread who are only stopping themselves from ending it all because of concern for what happens to people 'left behind'.

The ontological basis underpinning this notion that anything could be 'left behind' deserves more scrutiny and is not one I share.
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what do you mean?
 

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Hard_to_Beat said:
Very good.

"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."
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How appropriate.

Camus is one of my favourites for nothing other than the following:

“There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide”.

As I've noted elsewhere, I think about death every single day. Many times every day.
 
If you want to read good philosophical writing on suicide, you read Camus.

Then you choose life.

He's definitely one of my heroes.

fairdinkum said:
As I've noted elsewhere, I think about death every single day. Many times every day.
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Everybody would think about it, but what's the point worrying about it?

I am far too in awe of the truly astounding circumstances that came to put me behind this keyboard to ever take my trivial bullshit too seriously when it comes to questioning the privilege of life..

This is the reasoning behind my earlier de Grasse Tyson clip.

I owe it to evolution to live and to strive. Wowbagger is my homeboy.
 
Hard_to_Beat said:
If you want to read good philosophical writing on suicide, you read Camus.

Then you choose life.

He's definitely one of my heroes.



Everybody would think about it, but what's the point worrying about it?

I am far too in awe of the truly astounding circumstances that came to put me behind this keyboard to ever take my trivial bullshit too seriously when it comes to questioning the privilege of life..

This is the reasoning behind my earlier de Grasse Tyson clip.

I owe it to evolution to live and to strive. Wowbagger is my homeboy.
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it feels more like a burden.
 

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