Summary of The Big 4

[The Cryptkeeper]

Nice work TT but I can make the news even better

From the inception of the VFL in 1897 until season 1930, the finals series was a concoction of challenges, round robins, direct entry into the GF's for minor premiers even after losing the semi in week 1 of the finals series, and other mickey mouse rules. So much so, that in 1916 when only 4 teams played the VFL season courtesy of WW1, Fitzroy won both the spoon and the premiership!! Exceptional feat!

Analysing each season from 1897 to 1930 as it applies to our recognised Big 4, these are the results:

Richmond:
2 Premierships - 1920, 1921
Adjusted:
Minus 1920 - lost semi final to Carlton, but directly into GF and won
Plus: 1919 - defeated Collingwood (minor premier), but Collingwood exercised its right to challenge and won GF
1924 - Finals series changed to a round robin for 1924 only. Defeated Essendon in series, however, Essendon awarded flag courtesy of minor premiers
1929 - Richmond beat Collingwood (minor premier) in semi, Collingwood directly into GF. Richmond beat Carlton in prelim, then lost to Coll in GF
Net Result - plus 2 premierships.

Carlton:
5 premierships - 1906, 1907, 1908, 1914, 1915
Adjusted:
Minus 1914 - lost to Sth Melb, exercised right to challenge as minor premier then won
Net Result - minus 1 premiership

Essendon:
6 premierships - 1897, 1901, 1911, 1912, 1923, 1924
Adjusted:
Minus 1923 - lost to Sth Melb in semi, directly into GF and won
1924 - refer plus for Richmond
Net Result - minus 2 premierships

Collingwood:
9 premierships - 1902, 1903, 1910, 1917, 1919, 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930
Adjusted:
Minus 1902 - lost to Fitzroy in semi, directly into GF and won
1917 - lost to Fitzroy, challenged as minor premier and won GF
1919 - lost to Richmond, challenged as minor premier and won GF
1929 - lost to Richmond, directly into GF. Richmond beat Carlton then lose to Collingwood in GF
1930 - lost to Geelong, challenged as minor premier and won
Plus 1920 - beat Richmond, who challenged as minor premier and lost to Richmond in GF
Net Result - minus 4 premierships (so much for their famous 4 in a row!!)

Therefore, if we adjust premierships won between 1897 to 1930 to better resemble the McIntyre finals system that came into effect as a Final 4 in 1931, I reckon these are the new premiership tallies:

Richmond 15
Carlton 15
Essendon 14
Collingwood 11

Given Richmond entered the VFL 11 season after the other 3, who's the Big Boy now!?

Enjoy

Got any footage of any of that so that we can rate with our own eyes?

No?

There is one 'Big Boy' in football and it's Hawthorn. And there is some actual evidence to prove it.

 

[roacheee]

hawthorn are bigger than carlton now

easily more hawks fans than blooze fans in aus

i keep telling you and jeff, goldfish don't count

 

[tora tora tora]

Nice work TT but I can make the news even better

From the inception of the VFL in 1897 until season 1930, the finals series was a concoction of challenges, round robins, direct entry into the GF's for minor premiers even after losing the semi in week 1 of the finals series, and other mickey mouse rules. So much so, that in 1916 when only 4 teams played the VFL season courtesy of WW1, Fitzroy won both the spoon and the premiership!! Exceptional feat!

Analysing each season from 1897 to 1930 as it applies to our recognised Big 4, these are the results:

Richmond:
2 Premierships - 1920, 1921
Adjusted:
Minus 1920 - lost semi final to Carlton, but directly into GF and won
Plus: 1919 - defeated Collingwood (minor premier), but Collingwood exercised its right to challenge and won GF
1924 - Finals series changed to a round robin for 1924 only. Defeated Essendon in series, however, Essendon awarded flag courtesy of minor premiers
1929 - Richmond beat Collingwood (minor premier) in semi, Collingwood directly into GF. Richmond beat Carlton in prelim, then lost to Coll in GF
Net Result - plus 2 premierships.

Carlton:
5 premierships - 1906, 1907, 1908, 1914, 1915
Adjusted:
Minus 1914 - lost to Sth Melb, exercised right to challenge as minor premier then won
Net Result - minus 1 premiership

Essendon:
6 premierships - 1897, 1901, 1911, 1912, 1923, 1924
Adjusted:
Minus 1923 - lost to Sth Melb in semi, directly into GF and won
1924 - refer plus for Richmond
Net Result - minus 2 premierships

Collingwood:
9 premierships - 1902, 1903, 1910, 1917, 1919, 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930
Adjusted:
Minus 1902 - lost to Fitzroy in semi, directly into GF and won
1917 - lost to Fitzroy, challenged as minor premier and won GF
1919 - lost to Richmond, challenged as minor premier and won GF
1929 - lost to Richmond, directly into GF. Richmond beat Carlton then lose to Collingwood in GF
1930 - lost to Geelong, challenged as minor premier and won
Plus 1920 - beat Richmond, who challenged as minor premier and lost to Richmond in GF
Net Result - minus 4 premierships (so much for their famous 4 in a row!!)

Therefore, if we adjust premierships won between 1897 to 1930 to better resemble the McIntyre finals system that came into effect as a Final 4 in 1931, I reckon these are the new premiership tallies:

Richmond 15
Carlton 15
Essendon 14
Collingwood 11

Given Richmond entered the VFL 11 season after the other 3, who's the Big Boy now!?

Enjoy

Kudos to you for illuminating me on the bizzare finals system back in the day.
There used to be whinging about Hawthorn being gifted a couple while expansion took place. Now oppo supporters dismiss our flags as home ground advantage. Unfortunately every time I look it says Essendon and Carlton 16. Maybe I should get on Wikipedia and change history

Just did Essendon and Carlton down to 14
Reedits: Richmond 15

 

[Masotiger]

Got any footage of any of that so that we can rate with our own eyes?

No?

There is one 'Big Boy' in football and it's Hawthorn. And there is some actual evidence to prove it.

Dream on.

In 1991 Hawthorn won its 8th flag in 20 years - 5 years later it was ready to merge with Melbourne!!

You've had a good run, but move aside, the real Big Boy is back. When the Tassie government pull the pin on the Hawks maybe you could resume talks with Melbourne.

 

[VB_longneck]

Got any footage of any of that so that we can rate with our own eyes?

No?

There is one 'Big Boy' in football and it's Hawthorn. And there is some actual evidence to prove it.

you will always be minnows


i think its cos of the poo brown that you have never had a large following

 

[tigs2010]

you will always be minnows


i think its cos of the poo brown that you have never had a large following

Agreed

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Got any footage of any of that so that we can rate with our own eyes?

No?

There is one 'Big Boy' in football and it's Hawthorn. And there is some actual evidence to prove it.

Hawthorn are like Digimon to Richmond's Pokemon.

You have followers and youre alright, but majority dont give a s**t and youre viewed as a dodgy second rate version.

 

[This Is Anfield]

I sum up Hawthorn like this... premierships, any success really, to Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon really s**t me but Hawthorn flags... meh

 

[beema limapep]

Hawthorn would swap their brown to black, their mascot to a tiger, their location at Punt Road and their following to ours in a heartbeat if they could. And they know it.

And they are going to get thrown around like a dog toy this year.

No resounding qualities other than the ever growing distant memories of success. Thats all they are.

 

[tigs2010]

Hawthorn are like Digimon to Richmond's Pokemon.

You have followers and youre alright, but majority dont give a sh*t and youre viewed as a dodgy second rate version.

 

[telsor]

Forgot to add one year

2018: Richmond finish top after home and away, lose 3rd week of finals and are dumped out. Richmond don't get the chance to invoke the challenge rule and walk into the GF which would've led to Collingwood and West Coast to play off for the right to play the tigers in the big dance.

2019 and 2020: Richmond qualifying in 2018 had there been a challenge rule would've led to drastic action and seen the abolishment of the challenge rule which would've sucked for the 2019 cats and the 2020 power who both succumbed to the tigers in the prelims, which then would've resulted in West Coast fans filling the salt mine thread with a record amount of salty posts claiming vic bias and calling us AFL pets.

They'd allow the challenge rule "at the discretion of the AFL" with some criteria that are easily manipulated.