Summer of Cricket

Vader

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Tim Paine did say he would have bowled first in Melbourne if he had one the toss, so if we won the toss, the result would have be most likely the same
And every single recruiter says "We're really glad to pick up player X at draft position Y, because we had him right at the top of our merit list".

Just because someone says something, it does not automatically make it true.
 

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CrowBloke

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That leaves Adelaide as the only test match in the series, where Australia were competitive but still managed to lose - and the only test match which Australia may have won if they'd had more luck with the coin toss.
I've spent some time thinking about why I find this so irritating.
It's beyond the illogicality, and beyond the pedantic obvious that things did not happen that way.

The series was determined by hours and days of cricket. For many more hours and days than us, the Indians outplayed the Australians in every facet of the game, batting/bowling/fielding. They were tactically superior too and executed their plans ruthlessly. The Pommies have played a lot like that when they've beaten us in recent Ashes series.
In short, they've played as well as we used to.
The "point" that you insist I've been missing is that the Series was "really" determined by the result of the Adelaide Test, which was "really" as a result of the coin toss (<== see? I get it :cool:). This completely overlooks, diminishes and minimises the Indian cricketing superiority over 4 Tests.
Unfortunately, it's you that have missed that point, but I'm happy to go move on, mostly enjoying your posts and having a look at the new Test squad (which I haven't seen yet).
 

Vader

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I've spent some time thinking about why I find this so irritating.
It's beyond the illogicality, and beyond the pedantic obvious that things did not happen that way.

The series was determined by hours and days of cricket. For many more hours and days than us, the Indians outplayed the Australians in every facet of the game, batting/bowling/fielding. They were tactically superior too and executed their plans ruthlessly. The Pommies have played a lot like that when they've beaten us in recent Ashes series.
In short, they've played as well as we used to.
The "point" that you insist I've been missing is that the Series was "really" determined by the result of the Adelaide Test, which was "really" as a result of the coin toss (<== see? I get it :cool:). This completely overlooks, diminishes and minimises the Indian cricketing superiority over 4 Tests.
Unfortunately, it's you that have missed that point, but I'm happy to go move on, mostly enjoying your posts and having a look at the new Test squad (which I haven't seen yet).
How many times have I stated that Australia winning would have been "a travesty of justice", or words to that effect?

Did Australia deserve to win the series? Hell no. India comprehensively outplayed Australia, particularly in Sydney & Melbourne. That doesn't alter the fact that the series may well have been decided by the coin toss in Adelaide.
 

CrowBloke

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1) I see it as some are tackling it from an angle of relative perspective.
2) Deep down, I think we all acknowledge the Indians deserve the win, just that the series wasn’t as lopsided as it seems.
3) Pitch conditions were crap and no doubt teams batting first had an advantage, particularly in 3rd and 4th Tests.
4a) Note: all 4 Tests, the team batting first won 4b) or likely to have won!
1) I see it as wishful thinking which minimises and diminishes what the Indians achieved.
2) It was more lopsided than 2-1. Just look at the bowling/batting stats.
3) The Adelaide and Perth pitches were true to themselves, both producing results from absorbing contests between bat and ball. Also, it's called "winning" the toss for a reason and is intended to give the toss-winner a slight advantage. On occasion, winning the toss and bowling first has produced the win.
4a) is true, yes, but 4b) is speculative and will never be known.
 

CrowBloke

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How many times have I stated that Australia winning would have been "a travesty of justice", or words to that effect?
Several times, clearly. I've seen that, but it's not the issue for me.
Here's what I don't get:
... the reality is that we were (possibly) little more than a coin toss away from that outcome.
If it's a "possibility" it's not a reality. It's something that might have happened, if things were different. o_Oo_O
But you don't apply that ill-logic to the Perth Test or the Melbourne draw, you've just honed in on the Adelaide coin toss.

You've been unable to persuade me and vice versa. How about we just move on, amicably? :rainbow:
 

CrowBloke

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Gotta be happy with this lineup.
Certainly a better squad than the last one.
Wade's omission puzzles me. Clearly they're sticking with Labuschagne whose bowling in Test 4 was understandably nervous and expensive.
VERY happy to see no Marshes. Time will tell if Pucovski is an inspired choice.
 

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Vader

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Certainly a better squad than the last one.
Wade's omission puzzles me. Clearly they're sticking with Labuschagne whose bowling in Test 4 was understandably nervous and expensive.
VERY happy to see no Marshes. Time will tell if Pucovski is an inspired choice.
Trevor Hohns clearly sees him only as a wicketkeeper/batsman, and they already have one of those. He wants to see Wade batting higher up the order (for Tasmania) before he'll consider selecting him purely as a batsman.
https://www.news.com.au/sport/crick...a/news-story/a88afed3e9f91cbd6b10728121878077

Personally, I think Wade is being omitted because of his connection to the old cricket culture. They just don't think he's capable of being part of the new culture, where they actually play the game according to the rules.
 

John Who

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Trevor Hohns clearly sees him only as a wicketkeeper/batsman, and they already have one of those. He wants to see Wade batting higher up the order (for Tasmania) before he'll consider selecting him purely as a batsman.
https://www.news.com.au/sport/crick...a/news-story/a88afed3e9f91cbd6b10728121878077

Personally, I think Wade is being omitted because of his connection to the old cricket culture. They just don't think he's capable of being part of the new culture, where they actually play the game according to the rules.
It kind of puzzles me, where you talk about old culture and unable to change according to the rules. Do you think ball tampering is easy to do in today’s modern era of cameras and social media? In the aftermath of Smith/Warner fiasco, one would need to be a complete idiot if he is attempting to do more sandpaper/material handling on a cricket ball!
 

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How many times have I stated that Australia winning would have been "a travesty of justice", or words to that effect?

Did Australia deserve to win the series? Hell no. India comprehensively outplayed Australia, particularly in Sydney & Melbourne. That doesn't alter the fact that the series may well have been decided by the coin toss in Adelaide.
Risking a permaban, I quote Bicks

"Ifs, buts and candy nuts!"
 

Kane McGoodwin

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No marshes! Burns, Renshaw and Pucovski in!
About bloody time!

These would have been better selections for the Indian series as we already knew the Marshes are duds, Finch isn't a red ball opener & both Queenslanders were unlucky to be dropped in the first place.
 

Kristof

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Oh such a witty reply. I’ve picked up your biased hypocritical garbage plenty, now it seems you’d like me to do it more.

India played disciplined good cricket. Their batters were patient and didn’t throw away their wickets. Their bowlers again were accurate and maintained the pressure. Their bowlers moved the ball when ours couldnt.

Our batsmen weren’t getting out to unplayable bowling they were getting out because of rash shit shot making. Our bowlers were pedestrian.

Rain saved us from going down 3-1.

Talk India down as much as you want to protect our own, but that’s exactly what Rowey does, so if the shoe fits.
Sorry - how many times have I posted about how embarrassing our team was? Maybe a dozen times?

Read what I actually say before you start to dribble shit.

India were good. But Kholi only averaged 40, and they were 8-100 in Melbourne, which showed how vulnerable their batting was once they were on a pitch that gave the bowlers some help.

Our pitches were mediocre, and India got the run of the decks being true in Adelaide and Melbourne.

I'm sick of the media breaking their arm trying to beat India off, when things could have been different. We did everything we could to guarantee our side would lose, from naming a shit lineup to not presenting fast pitches.
 

Elite Crow

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Sorry - how many times have I posted about how embarrassing our team was? Maybe a dozen times?

Read what I actually say before you start to dribble shit.

India were good. But Kholi only averaged 40, and they were 8-100 in Melbourne, which showed how vulnerable their batting was once they were on a pitch that gave the bowlers some help.

Our pitches were mediocre, and India got the run of the decks being true in Adelaide and Melbourne.

I'm sick of the media breaking their arm trying to beat India off, when things could have been different. We did everything we could to guarantee our side would lose, from naming a shit lineup to not presenting fast pitches.
Why are you sick of the media praising India? That’s something Rowey would say.
 

treeman

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India was 8-100 in the Melbourne test.

It was incredibly easy to bat on for two days and incredibly hard for three, once the pitch had dried out.

It was terrible groundskeeping, and a horrendous toss to lose.

Australia could have easily won Adelaide and Melbourne, with a different result at the toss.

And that doesn't change the fact we were embarrassingly bad.
They were pretty much swinging the bat around looking for quick runs as they probably should have followed on.
8-100 meant bugger all.

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CrowBloke

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Is Will Pucovski the first Pole to play for Australia?
o_O ... say what now?
Emojis are your friend and would help to explain your intention behind such a weird question.
My birth-surname has 12 letters and ends in -ski, but I was born in Oz to post-WW2 European parents.
I'm Australian and am ferociously pro-Australian and patriotic to the core.
Pucovski was born in Oz, too, so your question edited should be:
"Is Will Pucovski the first Australian to play for Australia?", to which the answer is clearly NO.
 
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