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Vader

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Khawaja is rubbish st #3, but a decent opener, so that would be giving up the World Cup!
He's never batted below #3 in an ODI. However, if he's not capable of batting at #3 or lower then he won't be playing during the World Cup. Warner is the 1st opener picked, and (as Captain) Finch is the 2nd.
 

CrowBloke

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Re: games pre-World Cup, I read somewhere (probably ABC News which I have open whenever I'm online) that after the UAE series vs. Pakistan, we're playing a couple of friendlies against NZ.
 
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The Pakistan UAE tour will decide the spots.
Bloody Ponting is backing Marsh in too to make things difficult.

My ideal side has no Finch (if he can't find consistent form in the UAE/IPL)
We can't carry a player who is averaging 20's. We would barely look at him for a state squad with his numbers over the last year.
Starc is under an injury cloud, he better show some form in the IPL before we pick him, otherwise he can sit out. He's been well down on form this year.
If he finds some form he's a matchwinner.
We play 2 warm-up matches in Bristol vs Sri Lanka and England leading into the World Cup games. Everyone in the 15 man squad should get a go over the 2 matches.
I'd have Short in my ideal team too, as he can provide a few overs of spin, as well as destructive batting, but it won't happen, Turner goes too for the bench.

My ideal 15
1. Warner
2. Khawaja
3. Smith
4. Stoinis
5. Handscomb
6. Maxwell
7. Carey
8. Cummins
9. Starc
10. Richardson
11. Zampa

12. Turner
13. Coulter-Nile
14. Behrendorff
15. Short

5th bowler is shared between Stoinis and Maxwell .. make Smith and Warner roll their arms over too, to add some variation and make them earn their keep.

Likely selected 15
1. Finch (C)
2. Khawaja
3. Warner
4. Smith
5. Stoinis
6. Handsomb
7. Carey
8. Cummins
9. Starc
10. Richardson
11. Zampa

12. Marsh
13. Coulter-Nile
14. Behrendorff
15. Maxwell
 

John Who

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The Pakistan UAE tour will decide the spots.
Bloody Ponting is backing Marsh in too to make things difficult.

My ideal side has no Finch (if he can't find consistent form in the UAE/IPL)
We can't carry a player who is averaging 20's. We would barely look at him for a state squad with his numbers over the last year.
Starc is under an injury cloud, he better show some form in the IPL before we pick him, otherwise he can sit out. He's been well down on form this year.
If he finds some form he's a matchwinner.
We play 2 warm-up matches in Bristol vs Sri Lanka and England leading into the World Cup games. Everyone in the 15 man squad should get a go over the 2 matches.
I'd have Short in my ideal team too, as he can provide a few overs of spin, as well as destructive batting, but it won't happen, Turner goes too for the bench.

My ideal 15
1. Warner
2. Khawaja
3. Smith
4. Stoinis
5. Handscomb
6. Maxwell
7. Carey
8. Cummins
9. Starc
10. Richardson
11. Zampa

12. Turner
13. Coulter-Nile
14. Behrendorff
15. Short

5th bowler is shared between Stoinis and Maxwell .. make Smith and Warner roll their arms over too, to add some variation and make them earn their keep.

Likely selected 15
1. Finch (C)
2. Khawaja
3. Warner
4. Smith
5. Stoinis
6. Handsomb
7. Carey
8. Cummins
9. Starc
10. Richardson
11. Zampa

12. Marsh
13. Coulter-Nile
14. Behrendorff
15. Maxwell
I think Finch is a likely in as a starter for the World Cup, being the captain. However, if his form remains poor with average below 20s in a couple of games, then he needs to be demoted for another batter we pick.
Warner needs to be picked due to his experience and the fact he has been one of our best ODI players since basically the start of his career! We need batters who can be destructive early on, and increasing the chance of a high scoring momentum.

Smith needs to be in as well, then it’s a matter of who performs better with the other players to warrant ongoing selection or demotion.
 

CrowBloke

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My ideal side has no Finch (if he can't find consistent form in the UAE/IPL) We can't carry a player who is averaging 20's. We would barely look at him for a state squad with his numbers over the last year.
+
I think Finch is a likely in as a starter for the World Cup, being the captain. However, if his form remains poor with average below 20s in a couple of games, then he needs to be demoted for another batter we pick.
Aussie selectors have persevered with Finch and after the 3-2 win in India are probably thinking:
"We-told-you-so", with Finch one half of three x at least 75-run opening partnerships, as well as his 97 in Game 3.
Is it enough, though? The 2 posters above have their doubts. So do I.

As important as they are, I've never paid much attention to an ODI Captain's field placements or bowler rotations, too busy watching the action while probably not thinking enough about the tactics. Finch must be doing something really good in that respect. Not just that, from player accounts team harmony/happiness and team bonding are very strong under the Finch/Langer leadership (winning certainly helps, too). Dropping Finch might strengthen the batting (allowing eg Maxwell and Turner to play?), but might disrupt negatively how the team functions, creating more problems (who will Captain/open?) than it solves.
Looks like the Selectors will continue to favour those factors over the Captain's batting form.
 

CrowBloke

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1) He's never batted below #3 in an ODI. However, if he's not capable of batting at #3 or lower then he won't be playing during the World Cup. 2) Warner is the 1st opener picked, and (as Captain) Finch is the 2nd.
1) Yes; furthermore his numbers as an opener are much better than at #3. If Khawaja plays, he should open, which clashes directly with Warner/Finch at 1 and 2.
2) How about
Warner/ Khawaja, then Smith/ Stoinis/ Finch(c)/ Maxwell-or-Turner (depending on whom/where they are playing)/Carey etc?

I'm hoping neither Marsh bro. is selected.
 

CrowBloke

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Anybody else notice that Wade made another ton, now batting at #4 for Tassie?
https://www.cricket.com.au/news/mar...-victoria-tasmania-ashes-australia/2019-03-16
134 useless runs, which sounds harsh but "useless" because
--- Tassie lost the game, anyway, and
--- it looks like no amount of runs in any position will get him into the Ashes squad. Time will tell, I suppose.
Warner, who makes Wade look like a choirboy, will get a Gold Pass.

I'm not a fan of either man as sportsmen, but if making runs is the measuring stick (as Hohns claimed) ... :rolleyes:
 
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Because I keep going on about Finch ad nauseam, I have to put in the caveat that I actually have no problem with him whatsoever, he is one of the most destructive short form players when in form, but he is currently out of form so I want someone else picked who will do better.

I have pulled up all Finch's games since Warner/Smith/Bancroft were banned in SA.

Australia ODIs
Starting 13/6/18
England 19 L
England 0 L
England 20 L
England 100 L
England 22 L
SA 5 L
SA 41 W
SA 11 L
India 6 W
India 6 L
India 14 L
India 0 L
India 37 L
India 93 W
India 0 W
India 27 W

16G 5W 11L
401 runs @ 25.06 average
1 x 100 in a L
1 x 50 in a W
1 x 41 in a W
3 x ducks
6 x under 10
10 x 20 or under

Australia T20s
England 84 L
Pak 68* W
Zim 172 W
Pak 16 L
Zim 3 W
Pak 47 L
UAE 1 W
Pak 0 L
Pak 3 L
Pak 1 L
SA 7 L
India 27 W
India 0 NR
India 28 L
India 0 W
India 8 W

16G 7W 8L 1NR
465 runs @ 31 average
1 x 172 in a win
2 x 50+
If you take out the first 3 scores (where he got 324 runs @ 162 ave) and just take his last 13 innings,
he has 141 runs @ 10.84 ave with a high of 47.


Australia Tests
Pakistan 62 + 49 D
Pakistan 39 + 31 L
India 0 + 11 L
India 50 + 25 W
India 8 + 3 L

5G 1W 3L 1D
278 runs @ 27.8 average
2 x 50

Renegades T20
Hurricanes 42 W
Stars 14 L
Thunder 54 W
Scorchers 8 W
Thunder 10 W
Hurricanes 35 L
Sixers Semi 44 W
Stars Final 13 W

8G 6W 2L
220 runs @ 27.5 average
1 x 50

Sheffield Shield
27/11/18
Qld 50 + 1 W

51 runs @ 25.5 average

What the numbers show is that he has been pretty consistently average in the last 9 months since Warner and Smith have been out of the system.
He had a purple patch in Australian T20's where in 3 games he got 324 runs with a 84, 68* and a 172, but in the 13 games since then he has 141 runs @ 10.84 ave.

ODI's 16G - 401 runs @ 25.06 ave
T20's 16G - 465 runs @ 31 ave
Tests 5G - 278 runs @ 27.8 ave
Renegades T20's 8G - 278 runs @ 27.8 ave
Sheffield Shield Vic 1G - 220 runs @ 25.5 ave

Difficult to hold you spot as a premier batsman with an average around 27 across all formats in the last 9 months.
Not sure that being a good captain makes up for the sheer lack of runs. Up until the recent wins over India we had a shocking win/loss ODi record over the last year. So it's not like we were winning every game due to Finch's captaincy skills.
Shaun Marsh lost his spot too and he has scored 3 ODI centuries in the last 9 months, although he has been horrific in tests.
 

CrowBloke

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Not sure that being a good captain makes up for the sheer lack of runs. Up until the recent wins over India we had a shocking win/loss ODi record over the last year. So it's not like we were winning every game due to Finch's captaincy skills.
Really good summary of Finch's (out-of-)form. Like yourself, I like Finch-the-bloke and as Captain, but it's really just not enough.
Highlighted sentence is the real problem, isn't it?
 
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Really good summary of Finch's (out-of-)form. Like yourself, I like Finch-the-bloke and as Captain, but it's really just not enough.
Highlighted sentence is the real problem, isn't it?
For giggles I decided to have a look at everyone else since Warner and Smith have been banned and it's pretty interesting as everyone has actually been pretty similar to Finch.
Marsh has actually scored the most ODI runs and has 4 centuries in 13 innings @ 51.46 ave.
Khawaja and Handscomb only played 8 but have 497 @ 62.12 and 387 @ 48.37 ave.

Australia ODIs

Marsh = 669 in 13 innings @ 51.46 with 4 centuries (In Eng 288 in 5 innings = 57.6 w 2 centuries, 1 x 50)
Finch = 401 runs in 16 innings @ 25.06 (In Eng 161 runs in 5 innings @ 32.2 with 1 x 100)
Stoinis = 381 runs in 15 innings @ 29.30 (In Eng 76 runs in 5 innings @ 15.2)
Maxwell = 373 runs in 14 innings @ 28.69 (In Eng 112 runs in 3 innings @ 37.33)
Carey = 322 runs in 13 innings @ 29.27 (In Eng 50 runs in 2 innings @ 25)
Head = 209 in 8 innings @ 26.12 (In Eng 194 in 5 innings @ 38.8)
Agar = 130 runs in 5 innings @ 26 (In Eng = 130 runs in 5 innings @ 26)
Short = 83 runs in 4 innings @ 27.66 (In Eng 83 runs in 3 innings @ 41.5)
Khawaja = 497 runs in 8 innings @ 62.12
Handscomb = 387 runs in 8 innings @ 48.37

Turner = 125 runs in 3 innings @ 62.5
NCN = 66 runs in 3 innings @ 22
Lynn = 59 runs in 3 innings @ 19.66
Cummins = 37 runs in 5 innings @ 7.4
Paine = 36 runs in 5 innings @ 7.2

Prior to their ban:
Warner scored 427 runs in 15 innings @ 30.5
Smith scored 315 runs in 13 innings @ 31.5

So based on those averages, team would have to be something like:

1. Warner
2. Khawaja
3. Marsh
4. Smith/Handscomb
5. Stoinis
6. Maxwell/Finch
7. Carey
8. Cummins
9. Starc
10. Richardson
11. Zampa

12. Handscomb/Smith
13. Coulter-Nile
14. Behrendorff
15. Finch/Maxwell

The UAE Pakistan tour is going to be really interesting to see who consolidates their spot.

In Tests, since Warner and Smith have been gone Head has been our best batsman. Khawaja the only other respectable batsman.
I have no idea what Mitch Marsh thinks he's doing, he's picked as a batsman first and is getting blown off the park by Starc, Cummins and Lyon.
Shaun Marsh pretty terrible as well.
Patterson the future.

Head = 663 runs in 14 innings @ 51
Khawaja = 599 runs in 16 innings @ 42.78

Paine = 359 runs in 15 innings @ 27.61
Harris = 327 runs in 11 innings @ 32.7
Burns = 250 runs in 5 innings @ 50
Finch = 278 runs in 10 innings @ 27.8 ave
Labuschagne = 210 runs in 8 innings @ 26.25
Starc = 206 runs in 12 innings @ 22.88
Cummins = 214 runs in 10 innings @ 21.4

SMarsh = 220 runs in 13 innings @ 16.92
Patterson = 144 runs in 2 innings @ 144
Handscomb = 129 runs in 7 innings @ 18.42
Lyon = 120 runs in 14 innings @ 13.33
Hazelwood = 61 runs in 9 innings @ 12.2
Mmarsh = 53 runs in 8 innings @ 6.62
Renshaw = 13 runs in 2 innings @ 6.5
Siddle = 17 runs in 4 innings @ 4.25
Holland = 5 runs in 3 innings @ 5
Richardson = 1 run in 1 innings @ 1
Sayers = 0 runs in 2 innings @ 0

Leading into the bans (versus South Africa, England and Bangladesh)
Warner = 909 runs in 18 innings @ 53.47
Smith = 948 runs in 17 innings @ 63.2

Bancroft = 402 runs in 14 innings @ 30.92

Obvious quality missing from the test side = loss to India at home.

New Test side once bans over:

1. Warner
2. Burns
3. Khawaja
4. Smith
5. Head
6. Patterson
7. Paine
8. Cummins
9. Starc
10. Lyon
11. Hazelwood

In T20's
Finch doesn't look poor when you stack him up against everyone else. But you have to consider that he scored 324 of those runs in 3 innings, and since then he is 141 runs in 13 innings @ 10.84 ave. There has been no standout batsman, with Maxwell and Short being the most consistent.

Finch = 465 runs in 16 innings @ 31
Maxwell = 442 runs in 15 innings @ 34
Short = 396 runs in 15 innings @ 28.28
Head = 109 runs in 5 innings @ 27.25
Lynn = 133 runs in 8 innings @ 16.62
Carey = 119 runs in 10 innings @ 13.22
Stoinis = 116 runs in 11 innings @ 16.57
NCN = 98 runs in 7 innings @ 19.6
Agar = 71 runs in 5 innings @ 17.75
McDermott = 72 runs in 8 innings @ 14.4
Tye = 44 runs in 3 innings @ 44
Mmarsh = 42 runs in 2 innings @ 21
Handscomb = 33 runs in 2 innings @ 33
Cummins = 7 runs in 1 innings @ 7
Maddinson = 7 runs in 2 innings at 3.5
Turner = 0 runs in 1 innings @ 0

Warner prior to his ban was poor with 106 runs in 7 innings @ 15.14

Hard to pick and balance this team out. Warner may be no loss.

1. Short
2. Warner/Finch
3. Head
4. Stoinis
5. Maxwell
6. Carey
7. NCN
8. Cummins
9. Richardson
10. Zampa
11. Behrendorff/Tye
 

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Kristof

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Stop posting like a complete prat making statements without checking the facts!

Khawaja has batted at #3 in 40% of his games & been a failure, but has a great record opening.
So, he's played 25 games across his entire career.

You seem to have an issue with sample size.
 

Kristof

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10 of 25 games actually.

40% is statistically material.

You could apologise for being a prat, but no you double down.

Now to your second point - he's has 25 innings in six years. So averaging less than four innings a year. How possibly can you draw anything from that? You don't have consistent data. Three great knocks throw those numbers completely out of whack.
 

Kristof

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Here's what I'd like to see

1. Warner
2. Khawaja
3. Smith
4. Handscomb
5. Stoinis
6. Maxwell
7. Carey
8. Cummins
9. Starc
10. Richardson
11. Zampa

12. Shaun Marsh
13. Lyon
14. Behrendorff
15. Probably Finch
 

FR0GGY

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Here's what I'd like to see

1. Warner
2. Khawaja
3. Smith
4. Handscomb
5. Stoinis
6. Maxwell
7. Carey
8. Cummins
9. Starc
10. Richardson
11. Zampa

12. Shaun Marsh
13. Lyon
14. Behrendorff
15. Probably Finch
Not sure why you’d pick Khawaja to open especially when there’s not significant data to show he’s any good in that position;)
 
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Here's what I'd like to see

1. Warner
2. Khawaja
3. Smith
4. Handscomb
5. Stoinis
6. Maxwell
7. Carey
8. Cummins
9. Starc
10. Richardson
11. Zampa

12. Shaun Marsh
13. Lyon
14. Behrendorff
15. Probably Finch
Funny enough I agree with you with the ideal XI. The issue is Finch is captain, which means someone more deserving is likely to make way.

Imo, all players will get games prior to finals, so will be interesting to see what happens if Finch's poor form continues.

Imo, we will take a 2nd spare paceman instead of Lyon with English conditions.
 
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Why can't Flinch bat 3?

Think Warner bats better when he isn't matched with a numpty, so just giving him a gap would be better for him. Also think a tough call needs to be made on Maxwell, you can only carry so many players who count by stamping their foot on the ground and with Finch, Warner and Maxwell, that is too many. I am not fussed which one of Finch or Maxwell drops out but can't have both in the side
 
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