Summer of Cricket

Kristof

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Even with Smith and Warner in the side, we were flat track bullies, smashing teams at home but embarrassing ourselves abroad. Warner himself only averages mid 30's away from home. Let's not kid ourselves that those two coming back will fix everything.

Harris looks like a good find but still needs to learn how to consolidate a good start into a big score. The number five and six spots remain a big problem.

We also need to find a Starc replacement for the ashes, otherwise the "he bowls to the left..." chant will make a comeback.
Every side in world cricket is terrible away.

A couple of different results at the toss, and India could have lost this series to a historically terrible team.
 

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CrowBloke

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... what does a batting coach of the national side actually do? Shouldn’t these guys know how to bat that’s why they are selected? The coach can’t stop them playing rash shots. Is it to teach technique? But shouldn’t they already have good technique to get into the national team?
Good questions.
You're right about the batsmen all ready having ability/technique, enough to get into the Test side (looks like a mountain of runs and a healthy Shield average no longer seem to count).
My guess is a batting Coach could help with:
--- shot selection and placement (eg for quick singles)
--- building an innings and partnerships, rotating strike
--- choosing which ball to play and which to leave.
However, I'd see his primary function as identifying weaknesses/flaws and helping to fix them. I'm not talking about changing unusual technique or stance (eg Smith, whose singular technique helps him to score big runs). I mean the kinds of flaws that get batsmen out frequently eg Watson's propensity for falling across his stumps making him prone to LBW which is one of Finch's problems currently. Handscomb (twice) and Finch (once) played the same shot to get out, the glide through third slip which got them caught out. Head has a tendency to play away from his body on the off-side with no foot movement which is fixable.
As for self-discipline, temperament and concentration for a long innings, I don't know that any Coach can teach those things, but they could be discussed at length and become the focus of every player.
 

CrowBloke

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What do posters think of the Lyon dismissal?
Lyon walked off pretty much before the Ump had put his finger up, with 2 DRS referrals at his disposal. Replays showed the ball clearly hitting outside off stump, and "walking" after an LBW shout is unusual.
Ponting has been scathing, saying Lyon showed a lack of desperation to preserve his wicket and keep batting.

I reckon it showed Lyon's exasperation with everything that's happened; a little display of annoyance and "I'm-sick-of-this". He's quoted as saying he thought it hit him on the full (big toe) but even that has to be in line. Shouldn't he have used a referral and waited for the correct decision, which would have been NOT OUT?
 

jackster83

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Every side in world cricket is terrible away.

A couple of different results at the toss, and India could have lost this series to a historically terrible team.
NZ in the UAE and England in Sri Lanka both did alright (countries where we were butchered worse than a Mackay shot on goal).

I think the pitches in Melbourne and Sydney hurt us more than the toss. Our batsmen are incapable of reaching a competent total even on the flattest of decks, but those conditions were a lot friendlier for the Indians. We should stick to producing wickets which give the bowlers some assistance, like in Adelaide and Perth.
 

deaneus

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Every side in world cricket is terrible away.
True

A couple of different results at the toss, and India could have lost this series to a historically terrible team.
False

I saw nothing in our batting that made me think if we'd won the tosses, we'd have done anything useful
 

Vader

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I saw nothing in our batting that made me think if we'd won the tosses, we'd have done anything useful
The toss probably didn't affect the outcome of the Sydney & Melbourne tests. It may have affected the result of the Adelaide test. If Australia won in Adelaide, then the final result would have been 2-1 our way - a thoroughly undeserved series win, by (arguably) the worst Australian Test team ever.
 

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Vader

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The figure descrepency was somewhat surprising in an Australian Summer ......but given the difficulty of getting day/night Tests to be universally accepted ....the roof maybe a longtime coming
It's not that surprising. Sydney & Brisbane both have sub-tropical climates, with a lot of summer rain. Brisbane loses relatively few days because it has historically hosted the 1st test of the season, which is usually early enough to escape the wetter weather.

Perth has the weather which Sydney wishes it had (and tells the world it has), with blue skies almost every day during summer.
 
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The selectors are getting criticised heavily (and rightly so in some instances) but I'm yet to see consensus from any two experts/former players about who we should pick.

There's not an obvious Best XI by any stretch. The selectors have a difficult job.

However, while searching for the players who will take us forward and help the team improve you cannot afford to waste time on things you already know won't work.

Marcus Harris as opener is a good risk to take. He has had some first class success. He actually opens the batting. Reasonable technique.

No one knows how he'll fare going in as a newbie but there is at least a chance it will be a successful move.

Aaron Finch opening though we already know from his entire career of red ball cricket will be a failure. There's no possibility that anything else will happen.

Likewise Mitch Marsh. He's had 21 tests, so plenty of time. Looks like he has the tools in a Brett Chalmers sort of way. But, like Chalmers, he actually doesn't produce the goods. Picking him is a guaranteed failure.

So of the four or five actual selection decisions the selectors had to make this summer they had no possibility of success with half of them.

Given it's always a risk picking a largely unknown/untested player (Head, Handscomb) and they might end up fails too you cannot afford to waste opportunities.
 

Vader

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The selectors are getting criticised heavily (and rightly so in some instances) but I'm yet to see consensus from any two experts/former players about who we should pick.

There's not an obvious Best XI by any stretch. The selectors have a difficult job.

However, while searching for the players who will take us forward and help the team improve you cannot afford to waste time on things you already know won't work.

Marcus Harris as opener is a good risk to take. He has had some first class success. He actually opens the batting. Reasonable technique.

No one knows how he'll fare going in as a newbie but there is at least a chance it will be a successful move.

Aaron Finch opening though we already know from his entire career of red ball cricket will be a failure. There's no possibility that anything else will happen.

Likewise Mitch Marsh. He's had 21 tests, so plenty of time. Looks like he has the tools in a Brett Chalmers sort of way. But, like Chalmers, he actually doesn't produce the goods. Picking him is a guaranteed failure.

So of the four or five actual selection decisions the selectors had to make this summer they had no possibility of success with half of them.

Given it's always a risk picking a largely unknown/untested player (Head, Handscomb) and they might end up fails too you cannot afford to waste opportunities.
To be fair, most of the criticisms have been around their selections of those "known quantities" - Marsh x2 & Finch. Very few people have criticised them for selecting Harris, Head, or Handscombe.

The Marsh brothers & Finch are all known quantities. The Marsh brothers have failed consistently and repeatedly, over a prolonged period of time. Finch just has NFI when it comes to red ball cricket. These facts were known before the first ball was bowled in the series... yet SMarsh was selected for 4 matches, Finch 3, and MMarsh 1. Why?
 

CrowBloke

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It may have affected the result of the Adelaide test. If Australia won in Adelaide, then the final result would have been 2-1 our way - a thoroughly undeserved series win, by (arguably) the worst Australian Test team ever.
If.
"Would have been" does not count.
If Australia had won all 4 Tests, the result would have been 4-0 <== but I see no use at all in that kind of speculation, after the event.
We got done 2-1 by a very good side.
 

Vader

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If.
"Would have been" does not count.
If Australia had won all 4 Tests, the result would have been 4-0 <== but I see no use at all in that kind of speculation, after the event.
We got done 2-1 by a very good side.
That's the whole point of this particular discussion... how things may have been different if Paine didn't lose 3 of the 4 coin tosses.

The coin toss clearly had no bearing on the Sydney or Melbourne tests, because the Australian batsmen are incapable of batting for more than 3 sessions or making more than 300 runs, even batting on a concrete deck. Australia won in Perth. The only test match which may have ended differently, with a different coin toss, was the Adelaide test. The margin there was close enough that Australia may have won, if they'd had the best of the batting conditions (which India enjoyed).
 
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It's not that surprising. Sydney & Brisbane both have sub-tropical climates, with a lot of summer rain. Brisbane loses relatively few days because it has historically hosted the 1st test of the season, which is usually early enough to escape the wetter weather.

Perth has the weather which Sydney wishes it had (and tells the world it has), with blue skies almost every day during summer.
So accepting all this .....shouldn't the ACA be rescheduling the Sydney Test ?
 

Vader

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So accepting all this .....shouldn't the ACA be rescheduling the Sydney Test ?
There's more to consider when planning the test match scheduling. The weather barely comes into it.

Yes, Sydney has now lost 25 full days, but it's been hosting Tests since 1882, so it's still only losing 1 full day every 6-7 years.

Traditionally, Brisbane has hosted the 1st test match of the series. That changed this season for 2 reasons. Firstly, the Brisbane crowds have been poor, and Adelaide & Perth have both gone past it as "premier" venues. Secondly, the Indians refused to play the season opener on a bouncy deck, preferring Adelaide where the batting conditions are more similar to Indian grounds.

Sydney is still Australia's most populous and international city. The Sydney test is well supported by the paying public, and the tradition of playing the New Years test there goes back a long way. The weather really is the only reason for stripping them of their premium position on the schedule (i.e. the New Years Test Match), and the weather really isn't that strong an argument.
 
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There's more to consider when planning the test match scheduling. The weather barely comes into it.

Yes, Sydney has now lost 25 full days, but it's been hosting Tests since 1882, so it's still only losing 1 full day every 6-7 years.

Traditionally, Brisbane has hosted the 1st test match of the series. That changed this season for 2 reasons. Firstly, the Brisbane crowds have been poor, and Adelaide & Perth have both gone past it as "premier" venues. Secondly, the Indians refused to play the season opener on a bouncy deck, preferring Adelaide where the batting conditions are more similar to Indian grounds.

Sydney is still Australia's most populous and international city. The Sydney test is well supported by the paying public, and the tradition of playing the New Years test there goes back a long way. The weather really is the only reason for stripping them of their premium position on the schedule (i.e. the New Years Test Match), and the weather really isn't that strong an argument.
a) the financial impost of a game being rained out is significant ......I would imagine the TV stations have some claw back funds as well, if there's nothing to televise

b) Following on point a) .....good crowd support is irrelevant, if no-one's playing

c) Tradition is important .....but remember the rain :diamonds: could :diamonds: have prevented us from levelling the series & denying India their first Series win on Australian soil

****** I want to emphasise that in no-way am i suggesting there was a chance of us winning .....but B4 the game started, it could have ended any hope
 

Vader

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a) the financial impost of a game being rained out is significant ......I would imagine the TV stations have some claw back funds as well, if there's nothing to televise

b) Following on point a) .....good crowd support is irrelevant, if no-one's playing

c) Tradition is important .....but remember the rain :diamonds:could:diamonds: have prevented us from levelling the series & denying India their first Series win on Australian soil

****** I want to emphasise that in no-way am i suggesting there was a chance of us winning .....but B4 the game started, it could have ended any hope
Here's some climate info for Sydney:

On average, they have 12.7 rainy days in October, 11.2 in December, 12.3 in January, and 12.9 in February. The driest months are from June to September.

When do you propose to hold the Sydney test?
 

Kristof

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Sorry, but no, they're not.
The Indians were very good to win this series 2-1.
The South Africans are pretty good away as well.
South Africans, yes. The Indians haven't been that great away prior to this series. And even this series, against one of the worst Australian teams in history, they could certainly have lost other tests if the toss hadn't gone their way. We gloss over the fact they were 8 for 100 in the second innings of a test, and what kept them in the game was getting to bat for two days on a road.
 
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Here's some climate info for Sydney:

On average, they have 12.7 rainy days in October, 11.2 in December, 12.3 in January, and 12.9 in February. The driest months are from June to September.

When do you propose to hold the Sydney test?
I suspect then the same climate applies to Brisbane .....I'm already on record as saying the Test series is too sandwiched .....start the Test Series earlier & make the Sydney test either first or 2nd test with Brisbane .....no good having traditions when the game doesn't get played ......Brisbane seems to escape a lot of rain, albeit with their climate, the grounds also dry out very quickly
 

treeman

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Every side in world cricket is terrible away.

A couple of different results at the toss, and India could have lost this series to a historically terrible team.
So despite the fact sides are so terrible away we still needed to win the toss to win a test match?
In Melbourne we probably would have got rolled for 250 in the first dig and India could have quite easily made 400 on that pitch to again roll us in the 2nd innings.
Last test we incredibly lucky to get away with the draw.

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Elite Crow

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Every side in world cricket is terrible away.

A couple of different results at the toss, and India could have lost this series to a historically terrible team.
I’ve worked out who you remind me of, Rowey. He too is quick to defend the sporting teams/sportspeople he supports whilst he’s negative against those he doesn’t.

You both do it by making statements that aren’t overly accurate.
 
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