News Suns to ask for Pick 1 as a priority pick

[Mr Magic]

In no way do they deserve pick 1 as a priority. They traded out their captain last year and let a very good footballer in Lyons go for nothing, they had access to State League players last year and have three top picks last year. At best they get an end of round 1 like Brisbane did.

Exactly, given how they managed their list they are supposed to finish last this year. Gold Coast has no problem at all. Only have to look at GWS in the beginning years.

How they managed their list last year mean't they wanted to finish last this year!!!

I think Gold Coast would be better off without pick 1 as a priority. Maybe a pick after round one but pick 1 is a bad joke!!

Can't give clubs handouts based on short term strategic list manipulations to the detriment of the other clubs and integrity of the competition!!!

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The idea of PP's is no good and the clubs are pushing hard against PP's full stop

Well they should stop complaining so much. All but three of them have benefited from priority picks in the past. The reason I included an end of first round priority pick in that package is to enable Gold Coast to trade in a decent veteran if one wants to come (coupled with the veteran cap exemption they should be able to attract at least one veteran who isn't decrepit). Brisbane turned a priority pick into Charlie Cameron, Gold Coast can do similarly.

 

[Jirik13]

If AFL had set up Sun properly (they did the opposite) it would not have to assist them now.

If you are serious about AFL as a national competition you got to support assistance to Suns until they start playing finals.

Multiple approach needed if you want to see quick improvement within 2-3 years.

So people say that PP 1 would not help? Nonsense. First it would help with their retention if you draft buddies Rowell and Anderson. It would also help with other top draft picks (Lukosius, King, Rankine) to get excited about future and help with their retention. Rowell and Anderson look like they will play a lot first year. Just look at buddies McCluggage and Berry at Lions how much they contributed the first year. In their second year they were already between best players on the team. Now in the 3rd year McCluggage is already a star.

Extra cap is a key to attract quality players while Suns are at the bottom. You got to overpay them at the moment to convince them to come. Once you start winning the problem disappears (again look at Lions, at the moment players are contacting them to join them).

Soft cap is interesting issue. At the beginning of the season Suns were 1M under. Why? AFL did not allow them to use it (saving money). It just shows you how stupid AFL is. Yes, Suns have great facilities but if AFL is serious they got to put money into performance, medial, welfare, development to be at least comparable to the best teams.

Better academy region is no brainer as well increasing academy budget. I hope that people still remember that GWS started with Riverina area.

Besides players turnover Suns totally changed off field in the last 18 month. If people suggest that Suns need to change their culture they don't know what they are talking about. There is a great family vibe about the team and Suns have a terrific young core of players who are committed and extended contracts. The team also does unbelievable community work, no other team comes even close.

The main issue this year for Suns were injuries. More than half games missing 9-11 best 22, starting season missing 4. Against Lions missing 7, while players who came from long-term injuries are nowhere near top form. Suns are also putting a lot of games into 1-2 year players. Add total loss of confidence after 16 losses and you got a perfect storm. Just look at Melboune what a loss of confidence does to the team or GWS, Essendon the last round perfomance when missing 7-10 best 22. Again look at the Lions, do you really think that Lions would be top 2 if they were missing most games 10 best 22?

On one hand I am happy that AFL will probably overreact and give more concessions to Suns than needed. On the other hand constant losses mean no quality players will join Suns this off season, some players may still leave (Martin, Ah Chee) and it has a huge negative impact on players confidence.

 

[Crow till I die]

Well they should stop complaining so much. All but three of them have benefited from priority picks in the past. The reason I included an end of first round priority pick in that package is to enable Gold Coast to trade in a decent veteran if one wants to come (coupled with the veteran cap exemption they should be able to attract at least one veteran who isn't decrepit). Brisbane turned a priority pick into Charlie Cameron, Gold Coast can do similarly.

It is with live pick trading that the whole premise of PP's should be scrapped - the recruiters / clubs are making that exact line as the amount of work that goes in to drafting strategy is immense and to have the rug pulled from under your feet pick wise does not sit well. Obviously and end of 1st round PP has less impact than a front end PP, but the whole PP scenario should be confined to the history books now clubs are outlaying vast capital to trade draft picks

 

[Cleric]

It will because Rowell and Anderson are both more likely to stay if they're both going to the Suns. No, neither of them are going to take over games like Patrick Cripps in their first season. That's not the point of a priority pick, and if you think it is, you misunderstand the point of them.

You are the one that stated 18 year Olds weren't the answer. You just shot down your own argument and are back tracking.
Carlton didn't get a PP, Brisbane didn't get one, and neither should GC. They have taken on an untried coach, who is the next Bolton, they can't develop players and kids want to leave. But yeah, a PP is going to fix that. The delisting of Lyons shows just how inept their football department is.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

It is with live pick trading that the whole premise of PP's should be scrapped - the recruiters / clubs are making that exact line as the amount of work that goes in to drafting strategy is immense and to have the rug pulled from under your feet pick wise does not sit well. Obviously and end of 1st round PP has less impact than a front end PP, but the whole PP scenario should be confined to the history books now clubs are outlaying vast capital to trade draft picks

I've explained to you many times how trades for picks have changed after the fact in the past, and you chose to ignore it. You only have to look back to 2016 when Brisbane received an end of first round priority pick despite teams having already made trades for second round picks. Why are clubs suddenly taking this particular moment to put their foot down rather than in 2016? I think it's because Brisbane have been in the competition long enough to be seen as a serious club, whereas people still see Gold Coast as interlopers who don't deserve a place in the AFL, and they hang sh** on them at every opportunity.

 

[Crow till I die]

I've explained to you many times how trades for picks have changed after the fact in the past, and you chose to ignore it. You only have to look back to 2016 when Brisbane received an end of first round priority pick despite teams having already made trades for second round picks. Why are clubs suddenly taking this particular moment to put their foot down rather than in 2016? I think it's because Brisbane have been in the competition long enough to be seen as a serious club, whereas people still see Gold Coast as interlopers who don't deserve a place in the AFL, and they hang sh** on them at every opportunity.

mate..you are going after the wrong person again. You should be making your point the clubs who are unhappy about the possibility of GC getting a PP. I have provided actual evidence the clubs are seething about it. Go email Ogilvie from the crows or any of the other club recruiters to get their views on it

Here is an article from last year outlining why PP's were not given then and it no doubt will be a factor this time round as well

No priority picks for strugglers: AFL boss

Carlton and Gold Coast won't receive priority draft picks from the AFL this year but they will be allowed to recruit experienced players from state leagues.

www.sbs.com.au

"If you help (with draft picks) then you're doing that at the expense of the competition generally," McLachlan told SEN on Tuesday.

"There was an assessment that the clubs had a lot of young talent, I think Carlton have got 18 first round picks and they'll get the No.1 pick again this year.

"Gold Coast have got 15 first round picks on their list and they're going to get picks two and 15 this year if Tom Lynch goes to another club, which is I think accepted, so they'll get pick three as well.

If the AFL do end up giving a front ended PP, they will have put the noses out of joint of the 17 other clubs and it will compromise live pick trading going forward

 

[Johnny Bananas]

You are the one that stated 18 year Olds weren't the answer. You just shot down your own argument and are back tracking.
Carlton didn't get a PP, Brisbane didn't get one, and neither should GC. They have taken on an untried coach, who is the next Bolton, they can't develop players and kids want to leave. But yeah, a PP is going to fix that. The delisting of Lyons shows just how inept their football department is.

Oh dear Cleric, once again failing to understand the point. Not once did I shoot down my own argument, that's just you not understanding what my argument was. Priority picks are not designed for instant results, and they never were. They are designed to help a rebuilding process. They are for 3-4 years down the track when the players properly develop AFL bodies and can contribute in a more significant way. The value for Gold Coast in getting both top two picks this year is not only in helping the rebuilding process, but addresses their key issue of player retention, as its more likely Rowell/Anderson will stay if their best mate is there with them. That factored into Brisbane choosing McCluggage and Berry. That factored into Brisbane recruiting both Neale and McCarthy. And Brisbane did get a priority pick as I've pointed out multiple times. Gold Coast should too. Whether that is at the beginning or end of the first round remains to be seen.

What is your actual solution to assisting their "inept" football department?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

mate..you are going after the wrong person again. You should be making your point the clubs who are unhappy about the possibility of GC getting a PP. I have provided actual evidence the clubs are seething about it. Go email Ogilvie from the crows or any of the other club recruiters to get their views on it.

You really have an inflated sense of importance if you think anyone here is changing any club brains trust's minds. I really couldn't care less what Ogilvie thinks. Right now we are on a forum, yes? I made a post and you responded to it and I replied in turn, yes? Stop distracting from this if you're going to make the effort to reply to me.

Here is an article from last year outlining why PP's were not given then and it no doubt will be a factor this time round as well

And yet it wasn't a factor for Brisbane only three years ago. When we have an example of a priority pick in recent memory, it's very odd to dismiss the possibility of it happening again altogether.

 

[Crow till I die]

In case you missed it Johnny Bananas - here is the latest road to the draft podcast. Listen from around 16.30 and Ogilvie is stating exactly what I am saying

LISTEN: What will the Crows do with their top-five pick?

Adelaide recruiting manager Hamish Ogilvie joins the team for this week's Road to the Draft podcast

www.afl.com.au

 

[Crow till I die]

You really have an inflated sense of importance if you think anyone here is changing any club brains trust's minds. I really couldn't care less what Ogilvie thinks. Right now we are on a forum, yes? I made a post and you responded to it and I replied in turn, yes? Stop distracting from this if you're going to make the effort to reply to me.


And yet it wasn't a factor for Brisbane only three years ago. When we have an example of a priority pick in recent memory, it's very odd to dismiss the possibility of it happening again altogether.

ok cool - so you have no actual rebuke to the argument i AND THE CLUBS are making about compromising live trading. Cheers

 

[Crow till I die]

You really have an inflated sense of importance if you think anyone here is changing any club brains trust's minds. I really couldn't care less what Ogilvie thinks. Right now we are on a forum, yes? I made a post and you responded to it and I replied in turn, yes? Stop distracting from this if you're going to make the effort to reply to me.


And yet it wasn't a factor for Brisbane only three years ago. When we have an example of a priority pick in recent memory, it's very odd to dismiss the possibility of it happening again altogether.

did you even read the article and understand why PP's were not given last year and understand the comments made by Gil?

 

[Jirik13]

they can't develop players and kids want to leave.

Suns completely revamped development, welfare teams. Maybe you should watch the last 2 years draftees Ballard, Powell, Lukosius, King before claiming that Suns can't develop kids. What kids want to leave?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

In case you missed it Johnny Bananas - here is the latest road to the draft podcast. Listen from around 16.30 and Ogilvie is stating exactly what I am saying

LISTEN: What will the Crows do with their top-five pick?

Adelaide recruiting manager Hamish Ogilvie joins the team for this week's Road to the Draft podcast

www.afl.com.au

Since I'm not sure you read my last post, I'll repeat a key line from it.

I really couldn't care less what Ogilvie thinks.

 

[Crow till I die]

Since I'm not sure you read my last post, I'll repeat a key line from it.

funny stuff

 

[Hollow Knight]

Ogilvie was the astronomer in War of the Worlds who kept claiming it was impossible any aliens could come from Mars.

Ogilvie was wrong.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Ogilvie has a heavily-vested interest, holding a top five pick. I doubt Dodoro gives a s**t.

 

[Stroppy]

If it was up to the clubs.......
If it was up to the AFL......

That is why we have a Commission overseeing everything and making certain decisions, especially in an effort to make the competition fairer.

Including trying to even out the inbuilt advantages that some clubs have, and after the house of cards that was the establishment of the Suns, trying to shore up the inbuilt disadvantages that some clubs have. If that means giving us an advantage from drafting 2 best mates who both play a position of need, good. Need all the help and hope we can get.

 

[Joao]

It will because Rowell and Anderson are both more likely to stay if they're both going to the Suns. No, neither of them are going to take over games like Patrick Cripps in their first season. That's not the point of a priority pick, and if you think it is, you misunderstand the point of them.

If the culture is poor, neither will stay regardless of being mates (they can both get traded back to Melbourne in 2 years and continue being mates). Nobody is going to prioritise playing with mates over playing in a good culture.

If the culture is good, they would each stay if they were drafted on their own.

 

[Hollow Knight]

If the culture is poor, neither will stay regardless of being mates (they can both get traded back to Melbourne in 2 years and continue being mates). Nobody is going to prioritise playing with mates over playing in a good culture.

If the culture is good, they would each stay if they were drafted on their own.

Such a reductionist argument.

McCluggage and Berry were drafted together when we were a rabble. They stuck it out together and are now key drivers of our culture.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

If the culture is poor, neither will stay regardless of being mates (they can both get traded back to Melbourne in 2 years and continue being mates). Nobody is going to prioritise playing with mates over playing in a good culture.

If the culture is good, they would each stay if they were drafted on their own.

And what specifically tells you the Suns' present culture is poor? Noting that they overhauled their management and coaching, and got rid of any player who didn't want to be there, all within the last two years.

Are you saying that clubs with good culture don't lose players? I suppose West Coast must have poor culture losing Lycett then? And Adelaide must never have had a good culture given how many players they've lost over the years. GWS must have a simply appalling culture also.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

And what specifically tells you the Suns' present culture is poor? Noting that they overhauled their management and coaching, and got rid of any player who didn't want to be there, all within the last two years.

I have had doubts about their chairman Tony Cochrane for a while now.. Seems bit of a loose cannon

 

[Hollow Knight]

I have had doubts about their chairman Tony Cochrane for a while now.. Seems bit of a loose cannon

No, people from down south just don’t like him because he refuses to sit down and shut up while other clubs use the Suns as nothing more than a feeder club.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I have had doubts about their chairman Tony Cochrane for a while now.. Seems bit of a loose cannon

What does this have to do with the playing group? Does Collingwood have a bad culture because Eddie McGuire speaks his mind a lot? Port with Koch? Hawthorn with Kennett? Because they're all very vocal.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

No, people from down south just don’t like him because he refuses to sit down and shut up while other clubs use the Suns as nothing more than a feeder club.

If you have read my posts, I am all for the support and help Northern Clubs, especially Gold Coast gets.

You would have a lot closer eye on things GC related living in QLD (I assume)

If he is that passionate and dedicated to the Suns football club as you say, than perhaps I misjudged him, I probably lazily assumed he was some kind of another Skasey, owning a QLD footy club as some kind of plaything..