News Suns to ask for Pick 1 as a priority pick

[Taylor]

Apologies, that makes sense now.

Gold Coast has a case to answer for why they are both using the poor results for why they need more elite talent and why they chose to play their existing elite talent over the mature bodies they had on their list that produced the aforementioned poor results.

Gold Coast had the option to play mature bodies in Lyons and Barlow but chose not to in order to develop their younger elite youngsters. That puts the better results down the line and is responsible for the club to make that call, but to then say the result of that decision is why they need even more elite talent is disingenuous.

They just want more elite talent because the competition is so tight and a single extra elite player can turn a game, enough of those in a year and you win four or five extra games in a year and 10th turns into 3rd.

There's nothing wrong with wanting more elite talent but Gold Coast have followed the Carlton model of trading out/delisting/letting their free agents go to play younger players, getting the worse results and drafting more elite talent - then holding out their hand for AFL help for it.

 

[M Malice]

No beginning of 1st round PPs anymore, give them an end of 1st round like we got, we had been just has bad has them over the preceding few years.

 

[Deaneus!]

Just another example of the strong trying to keep down the weak.

Hang on? Don't the Demons have pick 2 and the Crows pick 3?

Apologies, that makes sense now.

Yes, and the Crows made the GF off the back of numerous low draft picks. If we're strong, it's because we identify talent and develop it.

In terms of single digit draft picks, we've had

#7, 2000 - Laurence Angwin
#8, 2004 - John Meesen
#9, 2018 - Chayce Jones
and we gave up pick 4 to procure Wayne Carey (when Carlton got busted, turning it into pick #2 which we've gone on record saying we would never have swapped)

in the entire time we've been in the AFL, 28 or so years.

In the Suns' very first draft in 2010, you picked up

#1, David Swallow
#2, Harley Bennell
#3, Sam Day
#7, Josh Caddy
#9, Dion Prestia

So please cry us a river that we're trying to look after a resource we historically shown we will use to our full advantage. You're so spoilt in terms of draft picks you've lost all perspective. It's ridiculous - if we're the strong and you're the weak, try identifying and developing talent properly.

Fancy that.

I've just checked the rest of your drafting history - you've had sixteen single digit picks in your drafting history, including 3 number one picks. Stop bitching about being weak, have some self-respect, and just get better at identifying & developing the kids you've got.

 

[Deaneus!]

Still, it is all incompetence

Yes, this bit I agree with.

 

[Jirik13]

Gold Coast has a case to answer for why they are both using the poor results for why they need more elite talent and why they chose to play their existing elite talent over the mature bodies they had on their list that produced the aforementioned poor results.

Gold Coast had the option to play mature bodies in Lyons and Barlow but chose not to in order to develop their younger elite youngsters. That puts the better results down the line and is responsible for the club to make that call, but to then say the result of that decision is why they need even more elite talent is disingenuous.

They just want more elite talent because the competition is so tight and a single extra elite player can turn a game, enough of those in a year and you win four or five extra games in a year and 10th turns into 3rd.

There's nothing wrong with wanting more elite talent but Gold Coast have followed the Carlton model of trading out/delisting/letting their free agents go to play younger players, getting the worse results and drafting more elite talent - then holding out their hand for AFL help for it.

Hm, Suns actually played Barlow and Lyons besides Lynch, May and Ablett under Rocket and where did it take them? Again the last year, Lyons played most games and what was the result.

The critical aspect of Suns bad run is injuries list, one of the worst every past 5 years. Obviously, you would say put resources into performance/medical teams. The only problem is no money from AFL. The last year Suns still had only half staff compared to Hawks on a performance team.

Yes, selection decisions this year are made with a view of 2021 and beyond and for a good reason - you actually want to build finals team, who can win it all.

If you want to blame someone blame AFL, they set up Sun the way they did (under resourced, incompetent admin, under staffed, metal sheds, etc)

Your arguments sound like Judd's "but what if we give them too much assistance and they will become too good in 3-4 years" What a joke. Please, check out Suns ladders positions all those years.

Is it Suns established club? Do you want Suns to be at the bottom long-term in NRL environment? Do you actually want AFL to be national competition? It is in AFL interest to have Suns up and running and as soon as possible.

Most funny argument is that any PP is not fair, against equalisation. How many father/son selection did Suns have or compare NGA vs Suns academy output. How about all these 3rd party deals during and after players careers in Melbourne? And this could go on and on.

 

[Crow till I die]

Yes, and the Crows made the GF off the back of numerous low draft picks. If we're strong, it's because we identify talent and develop it.

In terms of single digit draft picks, we've had

#7, 2000 - Laurence Angwin
#8, 2004 - John Meesen
#9, 2018 - Chayce Jones
and we gave up pick 4 to procure Wayne Carey (when Carlton got busted, turning it into pick #2 which we've gone on record saying we would never have swapped)

in the entire time we've been in the AFL, 28 or so years.

In the Suns' very first draft in 2010, you picked up

#1, David Swallow
#2, Harley Bennell
#3, Sam Day
#7, Josh Caddy
#9, Dion Prestia

So please cry us a river that we're trying to look after a resource we historically shown we will use to our full advantage. You're so spoilt in terms of draft picks you've lost all perspective. It's ridiculous - if we're the strong and you're the weak, try identifying and developing talent properly.

Fancy that.

I've just checked the rest of your drafting history - you've had sixteen single digit picks in your drafting history, including 3 number one picks. Stop bitching about being weak, have some self-respect, and just get better at identifying & developing the kids you've got.

The overriding thing to all of this though is the advent of live pick trading. As soon as the AFL introduced it, priority picks had to become a thing of the past as clubs are now investing way too much capital on strategies and making pick swaps for them to be eroded by an arbitrary front ended PP. The Gold Coast supporters on here know that there are many other ways that the AFL can assist them without compromising the draft (these have been covered through these pages) and live pick trading. I don't blame them for asking but the answer should simply be a firm no and that the AFL has move on from such things

 

[Taylor]

Hm, Suns actually played Barlow and Lyons besides Lynch, May and Ablett under Rocket and where did it take them? Again the last year, Lyons played most games and what was the result.

The critical aspect of Suns bad run is injuries list, one of the worst every past 5 years. Obviously, you would say put resources into performance/medical teams. The only problem is no money from AFL. The last year Suns still had only half staff compared to Hawks on a performance team.

Yes, selection decisions this year are made with a view of 2021 and beyond and for a good reason - you actually want to build finals team, who can win it all.

If you want to blame someone blame AFL, they set up Sun the way they did (under resourced, incompetent admin, under staffed, metal sheds, etc)

Your arguments sound like Judd's "but what if we give them too much assistance and they will become too good in 3-4 years" What a joke. Please, check out Suns ladders positions all those years.

Is it Suns established club? Do you want Suns to be at the bottom long-term in NRL environment? Do you actually want AFL to be national competition? It is in AFL interest to have Suns up and running and as soon as possible.

Most funny argument is that any PP is not fair, against equalisation. How many father/son selection did Suns have or compare NGA vs Suns academy output. How about all these 3rd party deals during and after players careers in Melbourne? And this could go on and on.

Your examples here apply to Fremantle too, we have had massive injuries and we don't have father son picks. So far our NGA has produced one player who no other team even bid on.

So where is Fremantle's priority pick before the draft this season? Nobody expects that to be a realistic choice but Freo kicked off it's rebuild by bringing in mature bodies and playing them.

 

[Jirik13]

Your examples here apply to Fremantle too, we have had massive injuries and we don't have father son picks. So far our NGA has produced one player who no other team even bid on.

So where is Fremantle's priority pick before the draft this season? Nobody expects that to be a realistic choice but Freo kicked off it's rebuild by bringing in mature bodies and playing them.

A bit unfair to compare Fremantle with a start up Suns. How many years were Fremantle around? I don't remember Suns playing in Grand Final. If someone is resposible for the current situation in Fremante it's the club. On the other hand, Suns did not stand a chance to succeed how they were set up. But hey you can always apply for PP.

AFL decided to set up Suns in a new territory to expand AFL and failed miserably for the first 8 years. Now Evan and his team work on a fix. What is in AFL interest - to let it sort out by itself over long-term or provide assistance to speed it up?

 

[Taylor]

A bit unfair to compare Fremantle with a start up Suns. How many years were Fremantle around? I don't remember Suns playing in Grand Final. If someone is resposible for the current situation in Fremante it's the club. On the other hand, Suns did not stand a chance to succeed how they were set up. But hey you can always apply for PP.

AFL decided to set up Suns in a new territory to expand AFL and failed miserably for the first 8 years. Now Evan and his team work on a fix. What is in AFL interest - to let it sort out by itself over long-term or provide assistance to speed it up?

It is very unfair to compare Freo to the Suns, the Suns start up concessions were amazing. Both the expansion clubs were far and above the entrance Fremantle was given.

Just to ram it home, a year or so ago GWS had more first round picks since it entered the competition than Fremantle had in it's entire 25 year history.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Your examples here apply to Fremantle too, we have had massive injuries and we don't have father son picks. So far our NGA has produced one player who no other team even bid on.

So where is Fremantle's priority pick before the draft this season? Nobody expects that to be a realistic choice but Freo kicked off it's rebuild by bringing in mature bodies and playing them.

Nothing is stopping Freo from applying for one.

We only won 2 games last year, had a buckleload of injuries and only got access to State Players (one of whom was traded to Adelaide as part of the Mitch McGovern trade)

Most people can see plenty of young talent on Freo's list, but their development seems to have stagnated this year, which may suggest it's a coaching issue, not a personnel one for The Dockers.

If you can get a good pick or two for Brad Hill, that should help you lot too.

I am more bullish about Freo's Future than most, think things can turn around within 18 months, whereas Gold Coast will take considerably longer to get things right.

 

[Taylor]

Nothing is stopping Freo from applying for one.

There absolutely is. No AFL supporter will look at 9 wins so far and think the club should get a leg up.

But if we binned our mature players for draft picks like Carlton did and then weren't competitive at all - then we get one.

I am all for rewarding clubs that maintain a standard of competitive football during a rebuild but I'll accept no reward as long as the clubs that intentionally bottom right out aren't rewarded.

Clubs that have talent and trade it away or let it walk to play the kids shouldn't be getting extra picks, it's exactly what the goal of doing it was.

The issue with Fremantle is that all our key forwards are injured, our best tall defender is injured and our only choice ruckman after the retiring Sandilands is barely out of his teens. We are missing key defenders in Wilson, Ryan and Pearce but still competitive.

 

[Jirik13]

It is very unfair to compare Freo to the Suns, the Suns start up concessions were amazing. Both the expansion clubs were far and above the entrance Fremantle was given.

Just to ram it home, a year or so ago GWS had more first round picks since it entered the competition than Fremantle had in it's entire 25 year history.

To be honest I know nothing about how Freo started. But I read about WCE beginnings I can imagine the AFL (VFL) did not treat you well too. That does not mean AFL should make the same mistake with Suns. Regarding GWS, again nobody cares but they got close to double conccessions compared to Suns.

 

[Taylor]

To be honest I know nothing about how Freo started. But I read about WCE beginnings I can imagine the AFL (VFL) did not treat you well too. That does not mean AFL should make the same mistake with Suns. Regarding GWS, again nobody cares but they got close to double conccessions compared to Suns.

The Suns had first go at uncontracted players, just like free agency managers could sign for a time that left them out of contract right when Gold Coast came in to offer huge cash.

GWS got to look at who was remaining.

 

[Jirik13]

The Suns had first go at uncontracted players, just like free agency managers could sign for a time that left them out of contract right when Gold Coast came in to offer huge cash.

GWS got to look at who was remaining.

Now you are getting on thin ice. Here is the article, at the beginning there is the report link with details GWS vs Suns, pretty fair I would say, not considering Riverina vs Suns academy area, new facilities vs metal sheds.

 

[Taylor]

Now you are getting on thin ice. Here is the article, at the beginning there is the report link with details GWS vs Suns, pretty fair I would say.

I wasn't suggesting they were the same. To pretend they weren't significant would be disingenuous.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

It's odd for any supporter of a club from a heartland state to complain about the draft picks Gold Coast received, when many of those draft picks left for unders to go to heartland clubs. Queensland doesn't have the huge pipeline of talent that heartland states have, you can count on one hand the number of Queensland players who have requested trades back home. We have structural issues with player retention that heartland clubs can easily minimise.

 

[marty36]

It's odd for any supporter of a club from a heartland state to complain about the draft picks Gold Coast received, when many of those draft picks left for unders to go to heartland clubs. Queensland doesn't have the huge pipeline of talent that heartland states have, you can count on one hand the number of Queensland players who have requested trades back home. We have structural issues with player retention that heartland clubs can easily minimise.

That's just fluff by those supporters

Most would realise the need for the AFL to expand it needs QLD and NSW to perform

It will do what ever it takes and so they should, the sport needs market share in those states to feed its enormous appetite for more revenue from broadcast rights

The AFL cannot go backwards or sit still and the only way to do it is through those states.

PP,Cola,Acadamy, it actually doesnt matter they will use the one that works but doesnt give too much of an advantage

 

[Taylor]

It's odd for any supporter of a club from a heartland state to complain about the draft picks Gold Coast received, when many of those draft picks left for unders to go to heartland clubs. Queensland doesn't have the huge pipeline of talent that heartland states have, you can count on one hand the number of Queensland players who have requested trades back home. We have structural issues with player retention that heartland clubs can easily minimise.

I agree. Gold Coast could use a few salary cap exempt list places to attract and retain talent.

 

[WilloTree]

Nat "So, how's it going mate?"
Lachie: "Haven't you heard? Only 'heartland clubs' can attract and retain talent."
Nat: "That's terrible. Anyway, gotta go. Have to watch an old tape. Say hi to Hodgey for me."

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Nat "So, how's it going mate?"
Lachie: "Haven't you heard? Only 'heartland clubs' can attract and retain talent."
Nat: "That's terrible. Anyway, gotta go. Have to watch an old tape. Say hi to Hodgey for me."

Take this crap to the Bay. A pitiful straw man that doesn't deserve a response.

 

[marty36]

I agree. Gold Coast could use a few salary cap exempt list places to attract and retain talent.

Cap room is the best for them in my view, maybe a few million extra

 

[eastfreo75]

Think pragmatically. Hodge to Brisbane is a scenario that won't likely happen again. Firstly you need the Fagan connection to tempt the player, secondly you need the mature player to stay fit. Have a look at McVeigh his body is cooked and will likely be the case for a lot of mature types looking for a retirement package. It's impossible to fabricate and is entire based on timing. Rowell and Anderson can be fabricated and they will immediately improve the leadership talent on their list.

You make a great point about the Hodge/Lion.

People try to copy something that can’t be copied.

 

[briztoon]

Gold Coast has a case to answer for why they are both using the poor results for why they need more elite talent and why they chose to play their existing elite talent over the mature bodies they had on their list that produced the aforementioned poor results.

Gold Coast had the option to play mature bodies in Lyons and Barlow but chose not to in order to develop their younger elite youngsters. That puts the better results down the line and is responsible for the club to make that call, but to then say the result of that decision is why they need even more elite talent is disingenuous.

They just want more elite talent because the competition is so tight and a single extra elite player can turn a game, enough of those in a year and you win four or five extra games in a year and 10th turns into 3rd.

There's nothing wrong with wanting more elite talent but Gold Coast have followed the Carlton model of trading out/delisting/letting their free agents go to play younger players, getting the worse results and drafting more elite talent - then holding out their hand for AFL help for it.

If anyone believes playing Lyons and Barlow would have resulted in more wins for GC, they’re fricken delusional.

 

[briztoon]

There absolutely is. No AFL supporter will look at 9 wins so far and think the club should get a leg up.

But if we binned our mature players for draft picks like Carlton did and then weren't competitive at all - then we get one.

I am all for rewarding clubs that maintain a standard of competitive football during a rebuild but I'll accept no reward as long as the clubs that intentionally bottom right out aren't rewarded.

Clubs that have talent and trade it away or let it walk to play the kids shouldn't be getting extra picks, it's exactly what the goal of doing it was.

The issue with Fremantle is that all our key forwards are injured, our best tall defender is injured and our only choice ruckman after the retiring Sandilands is barely out of his teens. We are missing key defenders in Wilson, Ryan and Pearce but still competitive.

You’re still competitive because you have more talent on your list, and have had less injuries.

 

[Turbocat]

Melb coach ..Goodwin .. says the Priority Pick is outdate in this era .... .. no bias at all of course..