Super 15

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S120

S120

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Veteran 10k Posts Sydney Forum Service Medal
Jun 19, 2011
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With preseason trials about to get started, the real season isn't far away. Who are the sides that will rise? Who will drop off? Can the Reds follow on from their fairytale season of 2011 and contend again without Quade Cooper at the helm to begin with? Will the Tahs put together a side capable of winning the title finally? Will the Force and Brumbies improve enough with their young sides to play finals? What in god's name will JOC and KB do with the Rebels?

Thoughts?
 

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Gotta feel for Turner, thought he was going to have a big season. Pretty cruel way to have it ended.

I have a feeling the Chiefs will have a good year. Think they might sneak into the top 2 of the NZ conference. Crusaders are due to miss the finals I reckon.

Reds and Waratahs should be too strong again in the Australian conference. Will be interesting to see how the other 3 go. I think the Brumbies and Force will be tough to beat all year, but will lack some class in attack, while the rebels should play some exciting rugby, but will probably lack a bit of grunt up front and will get shut down and ground out by the better teams.

No idea on the South African conference, really. Would like to see the Lions or the Cheetahs have a good year though.
 
Stormers should be up the top of the SA table I think. Bulls will be OK but nothing special.

I anticipate this season to be incredibly close. I can't see a clear stand out side amongst the 15 sides right now (obviously a ball hasn't been kicked but nevertheless).
 
Meh if NSW can't cover Turner...we are seriously stuffed. He is a definition of average...and he has done bugger all for 2 seasons....you know it is bad when Carter has scored more tries LOL! I firmly believe NSW will be better finding a replacement anyway.
 
You've never rated Turner and I don't particularly understand why that is. Whenever he gets opportunities for the Wallabies he impresses and when he gets some decent ball at the Tahs (which isn't all that often) he does well. I don't really know what more you want from him. Plus the reason Carter scores more tries is he often doesn't let the ball go out wide (much like McCabe and Fainga'a didn't during the RWC to your groans). So you can't have it both ways being upset at the centres when they don't give it out wide for the Wallabies and then at the winger when it doesn't get out wide for the Tahs. They can cover him to some degree as they have Kingston and Karauria-Henry as decent young back ups but neither of them are of Turner's standard.

Anyway, I reckon the Highlanders could do some real damage this year. Started the year wonderfully well in 2011 before dropping off but have added some very solid talent over the offseason at the same time as losing not much at all (Tom Donnelly and Robbie Robinson being the most talented that they lost in my eyes). James Haskell (English test back rower), Andrew Hore, Hosea Gear and Tamati Ellison are some good to very good players.

Could be looking at a team like:

1. Jamie Mackintosh
2. Andrew Hore
3. Bronson Murray
4. Culum Retallick
5. Josh Bekhuis
6. James Haskell
7. Adam Thomson
8. Nasi Manu
9. Jimmy Cowan
10. Colin Slade
11. Hosea Gear
12. Kendrick Lynn
13. Tamati Ellison
14. Kade Poki
15. Ben Smith

Not a bad side at all really. Some real stars in the XV for the Highlanders to work with.
 
Lets see....Mitchell doesn't have the problem of scoring tries outside the Carter centre combination...or an other centre like Horne as well. Turner doesn't LOOK for the ball. It is all well and good saying "he is a winger", but you look for the ball, simple. He is a C grader, average and sure he can do a job but if we are relying on Turner winning a Super 15 we are stuffed. QLD lose Rod Davies they replace him with a similar type. Kingston is a better option than Turner anyway.
 
We'll have to agree to disagree on this. We've each had our go.

Cliffy Palu, AAC and Benn Robinson are all playing for the Tahs this weekend. Here's the side for the first 2 quaters and below that is the side for the last 2 quarters. Not a bad side. Elsom, Timani, Vickerman to come back though I hope Dennis holds on to his position. I'd also prefer Alcock to McCutcheon at 7.

1. Benn Robinson (Eastwood)
2. Tatafu Polota-Nau (Parramatta)
3. Sekope Kepu (Randwick)
4. Dean Mumm (Sydney University)
5. Kane Douglas (Southern Districts)
6. Dave Dennis (Sydney University)
7. Pat McCutcheon (Sydney University), vice captain
8. Wycliff Palu (Manly)
9. Sarel Pretorius (N/A)
10. Berrick Barnes (Sydney University), captain
11. Brackin Karauria-Henry (Southern Districts)
12. Tom Carter (Sydney University)
13. Rob Horne (Southern Districts)
14. Tom Kingston (Sydney University)
15. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Northern Suburbs)

1. Jeremy Tilse (Sydney University)
2. Damien Fitzpatrick (Eastwood)
3. Paddy Ryan (Sydney University)
4. Richard Stanford (Eastern Suburbs)*
5. Greg Peterson (Manly)
6. Tevita Metuisela (Manly)
7. Chris Alcock (Eastwood)
8. Lopeti Timani (Southern Districts)
9. Brendan McKibbin (Eastern Suburbs), vice captain
10. Daniel Halangahu (Sydney University), captain
11. Peter Betham (Sydney University)*
12. Toby Browne (Randwick)*
13. Michael Hodge (Sydney University)*
14. Nathan Trist (Sydney University)
15. Bernard Foley (Sydney University)
 
Without Beale I think the Waratahs lack a bit of x factor...Sarel Pretorious might be the one to bring that this season but we'll see. I think in the sydney market you need to have a couple of guys that provide the wow moments...or otherwise have big profiles and personalities that keep people engaged (whether they like them or not). They need to develop some cult figures in the playing group.

I'm expecting the waratahs to be very well drilled and strong this season and to do well on the field...but they need to do more to develop their brand. I think in sydney the waratahs brand is thought of as elitist, boring, conservative etc. Hopefully they have a plan to change this. Winning games, even scoring lots of tries is not enough.
 
Mint Condition said:
Without Beale I think the Waratahs lack a bit of x factor...Sarel Pretorious might be the one to bring that this season but we'll see. I think in the sydney market you need to have a couple of guys that provide the wow moments...or otherwise have big profiles and personalities that keep people engaged (whether they like them or not). They need to develop some cult figures in the playing group.

I'm expecting the waratahs to be very well drilled and strong this season and to do well on the field...but they need to do more to develop their brand. I think in sydney the waratahs brand is thought of as elitist, boring, conservative etc. Hopefully they have a plan to change this. Winning games, even scoring lots of tries is not enough.
Click to expand...

Barnes, Pretorious 9who fans will love as he doesn't kick the tripe out of the ball) and TPN are cult figures, heck at the fan day everyone wanted TPN...he is the main one in my books and a great player as well.

Swans, yep, I'll agree to disagree on Turner.
 

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Partially agree with you on TPN...though I don't think he's well known outside of rugby circles so he's not as big a figure as he could be. He doesn't attract big media attention. I think he has huge potential though to develop more and more in that respect though. I also think Benn Robinson has potential going by that flashtahs skit. Problem is they're both front rowers. But then again, Matt Dunning was too.

And you're dreaming if you think Barnes is a cult figure. He's a very good player and highly respected, but he doesn't play with a whole heap of flair and is a pretty down to earth sort of guy. Yet he's probably got the biggest profile of any of the tahs players at the moment, which I think says a lot. Pretorious hasn't played a competition game yet, and fringe fans probably haven't even heard of him. We'll see how he goes. There's really no one who's going to draw in the fringe fans to get out to games.
 
If Pretorious plays he will become a cult figure as unlike the ordinary Luke Burgess...he passes and runs the football...he will bring back what we lost since Chris Whittaker retired. Barnes is a cult figure, everyone knows Berrick and he brings women to the game as he is as my sister puts it "gorgeous". Robinson is another I missed and Palu would be another. I don't see you need cult figures you need a team that doesn't kick the living tripe out of the football! That is what lost fans NOT whether we had cult figures.
 
The Reds kicked the ball as much, or maybe even more than anyone last year so I don't know whether that's the reason. And I doubt the waratahs kicked any less in the last couple of years than they did in the early 2000's when they regularly got 30k to games. I think game style plays a part but I don't think it's as simple as how much a team kicks. What the reds have had in the last couple of years is Quade Cooper and his unpredictability, plus cult figures like Genia, Ioane and Samo. All big personalities, all with a few tricks up their sleeve, flair. Real cult figures. Players people came out to see. They've even managed to turn a guy like Beau Robinson into a bit of a hero, mainly because of his story.

Palu, Barnes...these guys are not big personalities, and their playing styles are more solid than spectacular.
 
There is kicking and then there is "mindless kicking". Guess which one the Waratahs were! They kicked it straight to the opposition time and time again! I am glad the crowd booed the players. The crowd does not want to see a game of AFL in a rugby union match! The Waratahs kicked much less before in the late 90's early 200's, when Whittaker was halfback. Have said it for years, the NSW market needs a running halfback.

Ask any female who they want to see playing for NSW...it is Berrick! I mean there is the "Barnsey Army". Yes I know as cheesy as anything but if you don't think he has some cult figure status you are kidding!

NSW fans will support an entertaining team- through WINNING. However, also by the way they play the game.
 
If Barnes is a cult hero it's to a tiny group of girls that live in the eastern suburbs/north shore. It's not widespread at all if I've never heard of the Barnsey Army. I'm guessing this is a group of about 20 people.

And speaking of kick happy players, Barnes is the main man in that respect.

Anyway, we'll see. As far as I'm concerned sydney teams need real marquee players to make an impact in what must be one of the most contested football markets in the world. Melbourne probably even more, but people in Sydney are a lot more apathetic. Just look at the swans or sydney fc as other examples. Without a Lockett or a Barry Hall or a Dwight York no one talks about these teams. You need players that appeal beyond the traditional fans.
 
Mint Condition said:
If Barnes is a cult hero it's to a tiny group of girls that live in the eastern suburbs/north shore. It's not widespread at all if I've never heard of the Barnsey Army. I'm guessing this is a group of about 20 people.

And speaking of kick happy players, Barnes is the main man in that respect.

Anyway, we'll see. As far as I'm concerned sydney teams need real marquee players to make an impact in what must be one of the most contested football markets in the world. Melbourne probably even more, but people in Sydney are a lot more apathetic. Just look at the swans or sydney fc as other examples. Without a Lockett or a Barry Hall or a Dwight York no one talks about these teams. You need players that appeal beyond the traditional fans.
Click to expand...

Well more than 20...they go to every home game, forget which bay they sit in, it is as cheesy as anything but they follow him around. I never said Barnes was not kick happy although Burgess was a million times worse, at least when Barnes kicks he kicks to the corners.

You need to play a better brand of football not marquee players, marquee players help but they do not bring the supporters on their own. There is no point having marquee players if you are horrible at playing the game! You start winning, more fans will come, simple.
 
Super excited about this coming season. The Reds are really in for another good season, even without Quade Cooper. The forward pack looks extremely solid and the backline is all dynamite. The Reds are probably going to be playing with 2 openside flankers a lot this year with Beau Robinson and Liam Gill. Both players are way too good to be warming the bench. Not to mention the likes of Jake Shatz, Ed Quirk and AWH waiting in the wings. The real strength of the Reds is really the depth in all positions, the same can't be said for the other Australian teams. Multi-position players like AWH, Samo, Lucas and Harris are going to be crucial in this years Super 15 considering the reduced squads.

I expect the starting team against the Tahs to look like this:

1. Daley
2. Faingaa
3. Slipper
4. Horwill
5. Simmonds
6. Robinson
7. Gill
8. Samo
9. Genia
10. Harris
11. Ioane
12. Tapaui
13. Faingaa
14. Morahan
15. Lance

16. Hanson
17. Holmes
18. Van Humphries
19. AWH
20. Higginbotham
21. Lucas
22. Shipperley
 
S120 said:
Higginbotham can't find a spot ahead of Gill? Can't buy that. I like Gill and the Reds' other back rowers but they aren't beating the incumbent Wallabies no.6 in my eyes.
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The coaching staff are more inclined at the moment to pick Gill and Robinson as the starters and have Higginbotham come on fairly early in the game. I don't really think it's the best tactic imo, but it does make sense in theory, beat the Tahs at the breakdown early on and bring on your impact player to seal the game. The Tahs are going to have real problems with Gill, who's probably the quickest and cleanest fetcher in Australia.
 
bombersno1 said:
Lets see....Mitchell doesn't have the problem of scoring tries outside the Carter centre combination...or an other centre like Horne as well. Turner doesn't LOOK for the ball. It is all well and good saying "he is a winger", but you look for the ball, simple. He is a C grader, average and sure he can do a job but if we are relying on Turner winning a Super 15 we are stuffed. QLD lose Rod Davies they replace him with a similar type. Kingston is a better option than Turner anyway.
Click to expand...

That's totally incorrect. Ever since moving to the Tahs, Drew Mitchell has been playing the floating winger role, similar to Digby Ioane. He often doesn't have to go through Carter or Horne. Turner plays more of a traditional winger role. As S120 said, when he plays outside some decent players he's got the ability to finish well and play his role. Turner is only as good as the players inside him allow him to be.
 
S120 said:
Barnes out for the Tahs. Halangahu named captain...hmm...interested to hear bombers' take on that.

Keen for the start of the season tomorrow.
Click to expand...

lol.

I would like to know how TPN, Fat Cat, Carter and Horne feel about that. A real wtf decision.
 
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