Moved Thread Supplements saga takes the Bombers closer to a flag

[Aeglos]

Your number one pick is a back pocket player.

I'm pretty sure the rest of the competition will move on quickly.

The old back pocket apprenticeship is a throw back to last century but Wanganeen and Akermanis are 2 handy types I can recall doing it.
Alternatively if he forges out a career playing BP and is as successful as Corey Enright or Heath Shaw I'd imagine Essendon supporters would take that.

 

[citizen-erased]

The old back pocket apprenticeship is a throw back to last century but Wanganeen and Akermanis are 2 handy types I can recall doing it.
Alternatively if he forges out a career playing BP and is as successful as Corey Enright or Heath Shaw I'd imagine Essendon supporters would take that.

Heppell - HBF to mid
Mills started as a BP
Ablett FP to mid

Some do their midfield apprenticeship in the lower leagues.
Others come in and play different positions in AFL to acclimatise them.

 

[Jade]

Oh yeah, totally.

I highly recommend all other clubs get themselves a supplement scandal of their own; it's the new way to a flag.

 

[La Dispute]

Bizarre article. If they'd not been banned and had held onto the draft picks plus Ryder, Crameri, Melksham and Hibberd they'd probably have been in contention last year and this year.

None of these guys are stars though.

I'd say all things considered getting McGrath plus Parish and Francis (who came mainly due to the loss of interest/enthusiasm following the revival of the saga) more than makes up for losing a few B-graders and Ryder.

Plus the unintended consequences of unearthing guys like Tippa, signing Kelly, Merrett and Daniher being forced to step up in leadership last year. And had good draft position last year due to their lowly finish.

I actually think it put them ahead of the ledger.

 

[Mootsy]

Closer to a flag maybe, but the club will be forever tarnished by the drug saga.

I don't actually think that this is true, i think a lot of people are very indifferent to what occurred and don't really have much clarity, hence i think most rational people have a fair bit of empathy for the players having to endure the gruelling process of everything that went on afterwards. I hardly think the players meant to do harm, they probably just followed and believed in the protocol...

Similar to the Carlton and the Melbourne situation, it happened, but as an opposition supporter i don't hold a grudge, it's just a game after all. I don't think i gave a brass razoo a year after they happened...

Same with Melbourne Storm.

Sucks but you move on and it is just a game/sport..

 

[mxett]

It's amazing because our punishments totally ruined the club and the AFL knew they would as we were on the down and desperately in need of young talent.

Essendon's in comparison merely left them with a first pick they never would have received otherwise because when they've got a full list they're miles off being the worst team. Absolute farce.

your punishments allowed your club to pick up multiple pick 1's. We cant help it if you picked the wrong coach and players, and traded a number of stars away for hacks

 

[Jade]

None of these guys are stars though.

I'd say all things considered getting McGrath plus Parish and Francis (who came mainly due to the loss of interest/enthusiasm following the revival of the saga) more than makes up for losing a few B-graders and Ryder.

Plus the unintended consequences of unearthing guys like Tippa, signing Kelly, Merrett and Daniher being forced to step up in leadership last year. And had good draft position last year due to their lowly finish.

I actually think it put them ahead of the ledger.

You are absolutely taking the piss mate.

Ryder IS a star. I would still suggest that when you take in to account the total game, he is the premier ruck in the game.

And neither Parish nor Francis came as a result of the supplements scandal. One came as our first round pick, the other came by trading a highly regarded tall (Carlisle).

And unintentional consequence... we were threadbare for small forwards; Walla was rookied BEFORE the suspensions, and Merrett and Daniher had BOTH been highly regarded as leaders before 2016.

You need to get a grasp of the facts.

 

[La Dispute]

You are absolutely taking the piss mate.

Ryder IS a star. I would still suggest that when you take in to account the total game, he is the premier ruck in the game.

And neither Parish nor Francis came as a result of the supplements scandal. One came as our first round pick, the other came by trading a highly regarded tall (Carlisle).

And unintentional consequence... we were threadbare for small forwards; Walla was rookied BEFORE the suspensions, and Merrett and Daniher had BOTH been highly regarded as leaders before 2016.

You need to get a grasp of the facts.

I'll give you Ryder - the rest, not so much.

Carlisle left because the club was a shambles and as a result you got Francis. How can you not pull apart the residual effects of all this transpiring?

Walla was indeed a rookie and wouldn't have been afforded the same opportunity had Essendon had a full list to choose from. Which at the time wasn't exceptional, but was decent enough.

Honestly mate, if you can't see how much more Merrett and Daniher had to step up in the absence of pretty much every senior player you're a lost cause. Not downplaying how they were developing as leaders before 2016, but their leadership HAD to be fast-tracked out of necessity.

Touchy much?

 

[Jade]

I'll give you Ryder - the rest, not so much.

Carlisle left because the club was a shambles and as a result you got Francis. How can you not pull apart the residual effects of all this transpiring?

Carlisle left because he was played out of position due to the fact that he was behind Hurley and Hooker as a KPD, and we really needed a key forward.

Walla was indeed a rookie and wouldn't have been afforded the same opportunity had Essendon had a full list to choose from. Which at the time wasn't exceptional, but was decent enough.

I'd be almost certain Walla would have played in Round 1, 2016 regardless of suspensions. He would have started as a small forward though.

Honestly mate, if you can't see how much more Merrett and Daniher had to step up in the absence of pretty much every senior player you're a lost cause. Not downplaying how they were developing as leaders before 2016, but their leadership HAD to be fast-tracked out of necessity.

You give those two far too little credit. Daniher barely missed the leadership group (pre-suspension) in 2016, and Merrett would not have been far off.

Your suggestion is that they would not have developed otherwise - unfair to them, who are self-driven.

Touchy much?

Not at all, I just consistently see people say things that have no real basis in fact.

 

[PP34]

And then got 3 number 1 picks in Gibbs,Murphy,Kruezer plus getting Judd at the time who was the best player of the competition at the time don't think Carlton fans have a right to complain.

Point is we weren't some good team that got kept down because of punishments and then got propped back up. That's what has happened to Essendon.

 

[Jade]

Point is we weren't some good team that got kept down because of punishments and then got propped back up. That's what has happened to Essendon.

Well for a start, Essendon finished relatively low in 2015.

But more importantly, the AFL chose to penalise Essendon in 2013. Had they waited until 2016, Essendon would have had little of this 'benefit' to speak of.

 

[La Dispute]

Carlisle left because he was played out of position due to the fact that he was behind Hurley and Hooker as a KPD, and we really needed a key forward.

Rocks in your head if you think that's the reason Jake "this club is ****ed" Carlisle left.

I'd be almost certain Walla would have played in Round 1, 2016 regardless of suspensions. He would have started as a small forward though.

Unlikely given your list profile and very few second round rookie picks play a full season. He would have been an absolute outlier and it's complete speculation saying otherwise.

You give those two far too little credit. Daniher barely missed the leadership group (pre-suspension) in 2016, and Merrett would not have been far off.

Your suggestion is that they would not have developed otherwise - unfair to them, who are self-driven.

Actually what I'm saying is their leadership was fast-tracked, which isn't even remotely an indictment on them. Clutching at the straws here.

Not at all, I just consistently see people say things that have no real basis in fact.

Ah yeh. I think Essendon supporters genuinely believe they had the list to win a premiership and the supplements scandal derailed that. When really they were a slightly better than middle of the road team that usually crumbled in the second half of the season.

I'd much rather have their current list than the team they had in 2014. In fact, in looking at it, that squad was bog ordinary.

 

[Jade]

Rocks in your head if you think that's the reason Jake "this club is ******" Carlisle left.

Mate, like it or not, I know that one as FACT.

Unlikely given your list profile and very few second round rookie picks play a full season. He would have been an absolute outlier and it's complete speculation saying otherwise.

Whilst I can't claim that one as fact, I'd suggest it was VERY likely, and based on what his VFL form likely would have been, after round 1 it wouldn't have been too long regardless.

Actually what I'm saying is their leadership was fast-tracked, which isn't even remotely an indictment on them. Clutching at the straws here.

And once again I tell you that you do not give those two enough credit.

Ah yeh. I think Essendon supporters genuinely believe they had the list to win a premiership and the supplements scandal derailed that. When really they were a slightly better than middle of the road team that usually crumbled in the second half of the season.

Let's assume that's true, that Essendon fans believed they 'had the list'.

Considering they lost very little, and only really gained McGrath due to the AFLs mishandling, how is that opinion wrong if Essendon fans still believe that?

I'd much rather have their current list than the team they had in 2014. In fact, in looking at it, that squad was bog ordinary.

So would I. Funny that, that tends to happen after several years of good drafting.

 

[La Dispute]

Mate, like it or not, I know that one as FACT.

The thing is, you don't.

Whilst I can't claim that one as fact, I'd suggest it was VERY likely, and based on what his VFL form likely would have been, after round 1 it wouldn't have been too long regardless.

Another opinion. No substance other than a bit of a gut feel.

And once again I tell you that you do not give those two enough credit.

They went from being good up and coming leaders to THE leaders of the team. That is a massive distinction and an opportunity few very young players have. Think you're missing the point here.

Let's assume that's true, that Essendon fans believed they 'had the list'.

Considering they lost very little, and only really gained McGrath due to the AFLs mishandling, how is that opinion wrong if Essendon fans still believe that?

I thought you were here telling me they lost a heap of good players in Ryder, Crameri, Hibberd and Melksham? Which is it?

So would I. Funny that, that tends to happen after several years of good drafting.

Easy to do with several very early picks in good drafts.

2014 hasn't been much to write home about so far either.

 

[Jade]

The thing is, you don't.

Actually, I do.

Another opinion. No substance other than a bit of a gut feel.

You mean like your feel that Daniher and Merrett would not have developed as leaders?

They went from being good up and coming leaders to THE leaders of the team. That is a massive distinction and an opportunity few very young players have. Think you're missing the point here.

Actually BJ was made captain, Bags VC...

I thought you were here telling me they lost a heap of good players in Ryder, Crameri, Hibberd and Melksham? Which is it?

Wrong.

Point out where I said that.

Just wrong. Factually wrong.

Easy to do with several very early picks in good drafts.

Is it? Your own side has repeatedly failed at this.

2014 hasn't been much to write home about so far either.

Langford and Laverde?

LOOOOL yeah, okey mete.

 

[La Dispute]

Actually, I do.

Of course mate.

You mean like your feel that Daniher and Merrett would not have developed as leaders?

Your comprehension is appalling, but I'll throw you a bone.

Rather than take another small step to being key leaders of the club they had to, out of necessity and circumstance, take on big levels of responsibility.

Actually BJ was made captain, Bags VC...

Because the Captain and VC are the only leaders of the club. They were the next two down.

Wrong.

Point out where I said that.

Just wrong. Factually wrong.

Fair enough, but the general consensus was that they were key players when in fact none bar Ryder are A-graders.

Is it? Your own side has repeatedly failed at this.

Lovely left deflection. Good job drafting a good player at number 1 and getting 2 good players with Top 6 draft selections though I guess?

Langford and Laverde?

LOOOOL yeah, okey mete.

Are either of these third-year first round draft picks even playing seniors?

 

[citizen-erased]

Are either of these third-year first round draft picks even playing seniors?

one is just out of a moon boot
the other is consistently in the top 3 in the VFL learning to play midfield.

Where is Boekhorst?

 

[La Dispute]

one is just out of a moon boot
the other is consistently in the top 3 in the VFL learning to play midfield.

Where is Boekhorst?

Some startling development there.

Boekhorst is in the VFL and on his way to being delisted - what's your point?

 

[GuzzLG]

Juddy is spot on. Every club not in immediate contention would be negligent to not start their own illegal injection regime.

 

[Shadeeq]

Easy to do with several very early picks in good drafts.

Merrett was pick 26. Fantasia was 55. Hartley was pick 66. Ambrose and Tippa Rookies. Mckenna an international rookie. They are all best 22 players or close.

Are either of these third-year first round draft picks even playing seniors?

Bit hard for Laverde to play when he has been injured the entire season. Langford is not playing seniors right now but is developing nicely. Mckenna was also from 2014 and is now establishing himself as a best 22 player and looks very good.

 

[citizen-erased]

Some startling development there.

Boekhorst is in the VFL and on his way to being delisted - what's your point?

that its quite brash to be hanging the fact that 2 of our 2014 draftees aren't in our 22 at the moment when you look at Carlton's 2014 draft.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

A topic well and true done to death but the only part that irks me is getting Andrew McGrath at pick 1. The only major part is change is that.

 

[La Dispute]

that its quite brash to be hanging the fact that 2 of our 2014 draftees aren't in our 22 at the moment when you look at Carlton's 2014 draft.

The thread is about Essendon. It's a pointless deviation talking about Carlton's drafting in 2014, which is universally understood to be dreadful. My post was in response to the claim that Essendon had several good years of drafting, which would have included 2014.

May as well start talking about how average a rock band Muse are.

 

[La Dispute]

Merrett was pick 26. Fantasia was 55. Hartley was pick 66. Ambrose and Tippa Rookies. Mckenna an international rookie. They are all best 22 players or close.

Bit hard for Laverde to play when he has been injured the entire season. Langford is not playing seniors right now but is developing nicely. Mckenna was also from 2014 and is now establishing himself as a best 22 player and looks very good.

Those first two are now over that 'several years' threshold. The rest are good players.

Laverde is flaky and unlikely to make it - Langford lacks footy IQ. I was big on him pre-draft but he's pretty middling and there's no clear position for him at this stage.

 

[DapperJong]

I can't wait for the boys to thank Hird/Dank/Robbo once they win the flag.

And I hope everyone gets really upset about it.